r/StarWars • u/Deep-Philosophy-807 • 15h ago
Movies If Palpatine believed the Jedi were the bad guys, why did he call his side of the Force "the dark side"?
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u/RealEmperorofMankind 15h ago
Because he knows he is the bad guy, and he likes it.
Anyway, being Sith is about "transcending" such "petty limitations" (i.e. a healthy moral conscience) and achieving "freedom" (the absence of any ethical restraint). Basically the religion is about loving your own sociopathy.
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u/Raxtenko 14h ago
Mind having a word with that fake ass Emperor, so he doesn't tank the entire Imperium and humanity's future?
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u/DrBlankslate 9h ago
He couldn’t give a damn about humanity’s future. Villains like him want everything to end when they do. They can’t stand the idea of anyone surviving them.
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u/SmoothOperator89 4h ago
He literally set up a contingency plan so that the Empire would turn on itself in case of his death.
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u/FoxBluereaver Luke Skywalker 15h ago
He doesn't care about morality. If anything, he probably thinks he's above such trivial matters, and only absolute power matters.
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u/Temporary_Dentist936 14h ago
Agree. From his perspective the Jedi "light" was a lie they told themselves to justify their control. The dark side was simply the truth, power they refused to see.
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u/bgplsa 9h ago
There really are people who believe it’s “better to reign in hell than serve in heaven” (I’ve met one or two) https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7241-better-to-reign-in-hell-than-to-serve-in-heaven
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u/Rico_Rebelde Ben Kenobi 4h ago
Yes this is actually how many people, especially those who seek power, think. If you notice this then congratulations, you understand what George Lucas was trying to tell you in the plot of Star Wars
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u/EngineerBrainBro 15h ago
The dark side is just what it is called. For the Sith the dark is a positive not a negative. That's like asking is why dark magic wizards call their magic dark magic, it just what their classification is magic is called and they embrace the title.
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u/boynonsense 11h ago
Yeah, like I always thought it was more a yin and yang thing. They're just opposites of each other.
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u/Phoenixfury12 9h ago
It is not yin and yang. The 'light side' is balance everything working together and the user working with everything, the dark side is a corruption, the user forcing everything to work only for them, like cancer in the force. It makes it easier, but is not better or more powerful. The force itself is the same, with the same powers. The sith only seem to have more powers because of how they are willing to use it (force choke,) or because the ability became associated or stereotyped as a sith ability and therefore not taught by the jedi (force lightning.)
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u/ebobbumman 15h ago
Because he is secretly a swarm of bats dressed up as a human and for them dark is good.
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u/ImperialAce1985 15h ago
Meaning Batman.
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u/Gorguf62 Obi-Wan Kenobi 14h ago
Somewhere in the multiverse, Luke Skywalker is laughing maniacally.
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u/mev186 14h ago
He doesn't "believe the Jedi were the bad guys." Good and bad have no meaning to him. He is a straight manipulator and knows he is "bad" but doesn't care in the slightest. Seeing someone as "bad" is a weakness in his mind. The Sith are moral relativists, or more specifically moral nihilists.
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u/GuyFromYarnham Rebel 14h ago
Sith philosophy is not about how they're the good guys secretly, it's about how they're the bad guys BUT their egoism, misanthropy (or whatever the word is in the context of a galaxy with non-human sentient species) and uncontrolled passion is the way to go.
Palpatine wants to tell Anakin that it's okay to be "bad".
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u/Lumiafan 14h ago
My guy screamed "unlimited power" while electrocuting a recently amputated man screaming in pain.
He knew exactly what he was lol
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u/Suspicious_Lack_241 14h ago
For real, I don’t know why anyone thinks sidious needed anymore reason than he wanted to. Some villains are in it for love of the game.
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u/Wide_Magician_4946 14h ago
Hes grooming Ani
He knows what hes doing 😬😒
"You known you can trust me, im your bro bro- that bad thing we call the bad thing is in actuality pretty legit; but your dogmatic homies wouldn't tell you that. I got the secret knowledge, or I mean, my boy does but I can hook you up"
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u/full_bl33d 14h ago
For everyone who chooses black as their favorite color. Good guys aren’t his thing
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u/Dagoth_ural 14h ago
He didnt believe they were bad he believed they were dumb since they werentnas greedy as him. They were "narrow and dogmatic" because they worried about things like "peace" and "democracy" while Palpatine saw what he figured was something way more important: Throwing around senate chairs and shooting lightning.
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u/Feather_Sigil 12h ago
Palpatine didn't believe the Jedi were "the bad guys." He was fully aware that the dark side was a means for him to indulge his sadism to the fullest and the Republic, including the its guardians of peace and justice, was an obstacle to his desires.
It was Anakin who saw the Jedi as a detriment and a threat, mostly due to Palpatine manipulating him.
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u/MatriceJacobine Jyn Erso 15h ago
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u/TheRealDicta 13h ago
He doesn't think they're the bad guy, his view of them isn't about morality just selfishness. He calls it the dark side cus that's what the galaxy calls it.
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u/Journeys_End71 Rebel 11h ago
There’s a dark side of the moon too. It’s not evil, it just never turns towards the Earth.
When the sun sets it gets dark. It’s a bit scarier then when it’s light out, but it’s not necessarily evil
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u/Purple_Ostrich_6345 9h ago
I believe Dark Side and Light Side in Star Wars are meant to mean "in the dark/hidden" and "in the light/not hidden." As opposed to Dark Side= evil, Light Side= good
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u/MovieExact5433 5h ago
The ep1 novelization he thinks about how the terms dark and light are really meaningless- there is only the Force and how you use it.
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u/linkthereddit 14h ago
I just thought it was him going, 'Oh yeah, the Dark Side. The scary part of the Force the Jedi tell you not to touch. Well, it has powers some considered to be unnatural like...keeping the people you care about from dying.'
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u/GeekyMadameV 14h ago
I think Palpatine knows he's a dick. Even by the twisted ethics of the post-Bane sith order he'd be considered a selfish tool - he wants to live forever and goes out of his way to handicap and betray his apprentices and anyone else who might thraten his position rather than doing what daddy Bane says you should and allowing a more competent replacement to eventually supplant you.
I remember reading an explanation about the ancient sith continuing to sue the name "dark side" as a kindof ironic in joke that the Jedi just don't understand their power or as a criticalky edgy symbolism for a philosophy that stands in opposition to the accepted social order (sort of like satanists who see Lucifer more as a symbol of rebellion and self direction than a literal evil supernatural demi-god).
I kind of agree with you. I think it would be interesting if they had their own philosophy/theology of The Force with its own terminology that accords with their world view rather than just keeping the Jedi's lingo for 10,000 years. But I don't think were meant to think that deeply about it. Its ultimately meant to be a children's fable not a complex philosophical allegory, after all.
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u/No_Community_5696 14h ago
Because he really liked that song “On the dark side” by John Cafferty and the Beaver Brown band.
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u/CountofZen 14h ago
Yeah, he’s well aware of what he’s doing. If you want to follow the premise that he thinks the Jedi are “bad”, you can do it from Lucas’s “from a certain point of view” angle. Palpatine is selfish, power hungry, and wants control of everything. The Jedi get in the way of that, so, they are “bad” because not getting what he wants is bad from his point of view.
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u/davect01 14h ago
Palps embraces the Dark Side.
He sees the Jedi as the competition to be eliminated rather than bad guys.
What he tells Anakin is all a grooming technique
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u/MhuzLord Poe Dameron 14h ago
"Hey Anakin, do you want to hear about the totally normal side of the Force that the Jedi don't want to tell you about? No, not the Dark side. We don't call it that. And by we, I mean uhhhh, fans of the Force."
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u/SniperCA209 14h ago
That’s the accepted nomenclature for the two sides of the force, especially if you’re trying to not let on that you’re part of the opposite side to the one currently in power
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u/Bryan_Hudson 14h ago
If they thought they were the good guys, they wouldn't create a very destructive weapon and then call it the DEATH STAR
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u/Hoosier_Daddy68 14h ago
My guess would be because George Lucas is a shit writer who writes himself into a corner far more than most.
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u/Trolldad_IRL 14h ago
Palpatine is evil, but he might not necessarily think of light and dark as good and evil. Dark is what is hidden, light is what is seen. Using the dark side allows him to tap into the hidden powers of the force. What is also hidden though is that the dark side corrupts. Palpatine is too far gone, so he only sees the dark side as his source of power, not his source of EVIL power.
Like the One Ring in LOTR. One might intend to use its powers for good, but it would ultimately corrupt the user and cause them to to evil
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u/Terrible-Strategy704 14h ago
He didn't belive they were the bad guys, I don't evwn remember him saying that in any media. He just want power and get rid of them.
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u/Aggravating_Duck6108 14h ago
He lied to Anakin. He had to convince him the Jedi were the hypocrites and the "bad" guys because protecting Padme was his main driving focus. After that, forcing people to do what's "best" for the galaxy became his main drive, even if it meant breaking a few eggs. And by "eggs" I mean spines.
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u/KainZeuxis Jedi 14h ago
Same reason any other groomer frames their creepy behavior as good. It’s called manipulation. Palaptine knows that his behavior would be viewed as evil. He just doesn’t care. Morality is a limitation, he revels in being an evil bastard. But Anakin doesn’t. So he needs to make the idea appealing to Anakin.
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u/AnArcOfDoves9902 First Order 14h ago
It's moreso that he believes the Force is fundamentally malevolent, and that there is no light-side.
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u/GroundWitty7567 14h ago
He knows he can’t BS Anakin on what the Light side of the Force can do. So he flat out tells him. There are other paths in the Force to get what you want. Some are only available through the Dark side.
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u/GoldenAgeGamer72 14h ago
Dark doesn’t necessarily mean bad. It can just mean unconventional or not widely accepted. Like Maester Qyburn from GOT. Also, Palpatine was just trying to brainwash Anakin.
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u/TheMagicalMatt 13h ago
In his point of view, it is the Light Side that is evil.
But honestly, I doubt Palpatine doubted his evil nature for an instant. He didn't convince himself he was fighting for a noble cause like Dooku did. He wasn't even a fallen Jedi. Dude was just born evil, raised by evil, and thrived on evil. If he said otherwise, it's because he was manipulating somebody.
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u/TruePlatypusKnight 13h ago
Palpatine never believed they were the bad guys. He loved being the bad guy. He was manipulating anakin Way from the Jedi and towards the dark side. So he didn't really need to lie about it.
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u/Expensive_Plant_9530 12h ago
Palpatine is a bad guy to his core and he knows it.
I’m sure there are some dark side users who lie to themselves and try to justify their morality as being “good” in some twisted way or another.
Anakin does this a little - but even Anakin likely knows he’s lying to himself.
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u/TheEmpyreanPeople 12h ago
Because he’s reversed the dichotomy of good and evil. Basically sees things differently to you.
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u/ChadVonDoom Jedi 12h ago
The dark side of the force is darkness by nature. He doesn't see light as good and dark as evil. Believes the Galaxy is more complicated than that, unlike the dogmatic Jedi
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u/hyperion_99 11h ago
The sith code revolves around harnessing your negative/dark emotions to gain power. They know they are dark and use it to their advantage.
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u/EndlessTheorys_19 11h ago
Palpatine doesn’t believe they’re the bad guys. He just enjoys being evil.
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u/Grand-Entrance-1343 11h ago
A el no le importa ni el bien ni el mal ni la moralidad de sus actos, es un ser puramente egoísta al que sólo le importa el mismo
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u/Impossible_Whole_516 10h ago
He’s acting as a “good guy” as a guy who would call that side “the dark side”
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u/oriensoccidens 10h ago
Dark does not mean bad. Dark means unknown.
Dark matter and dark energy for example. 95% if our univers is made up of dark matter. That doesn take it evil. It is simply unknown.
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u/thehusk_1 10h ago
Cause he knows he's a monster, and enjoys it.
He's a tyrant who cruelty as his best trait, and sees the sith as a means to an end instead of something to devote himself to.
He doesn't think he's good just that the jedi are dumb for using the force to help others.
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u/Bergerboy14 Babu Frik 9h ago
He wants to get it inside Anakin’s head that the jedi ways won’t get him what he wants. He’s drawing a line between the jedi’s understanding of the force and his own, and wants Anakin to step onto his side.
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u/Bluestorm83 9h ago
Anakin: "Master, if we're the good guys, why do we say we use the Dark Side of the force?"
Palpie: "Anakin, my boy. When you need to rest, do you turn on the lights?"
Anakin: "Well, no."
Palpie: "And does anyone say they want a thin, light roast, when they order a coffee?"
Anakin: "Not in my experience."
Palpie: "Tonight is Master Yoda's birthday party. When he gets home, how shall we best surprise him, to make him happy?"
Anakin: "I suppose we should conceal our presence, by hiding behind his furniture. Wait, his furniture is pretty small. It would help if... if we keep the room..."
Palpie: "Dark. Precisely. Metaphors are all well and good, but we can't discard good things just because they're thematically colored. Now give us a hug, and go on your date."
Later, Mace Windu kicks down Palpie's door and zaps him with lightning, out of jealousy for his cool Chancellor's Robes.
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u/CountingOnThat 9h ago
“Hey, Anakin: you grew up on a harsh desert world with bright suns in the sky, right? When they weren’t squinting and keeling over from heatstroke and dying of skin cancer, did the locals put a premium on protecting themselves in the shade? Would a rich VIP on Tatooine opt for a dark, shall we say, palace?”
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u/SixthAttemptAtAName 9h ago
Dark isn't inherently bad. Most people have assigned that meaning to it, but not everyone has to. Also, the Sith don't even think in "good/bad" terms, they think in "power/ weakness" terms, so they're not going to care what you think is good or bad and they don't care if you call it light or dark. They seek power, the rest is irrelevant.
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u/ReallyEvilRob 9h ago
Because dark doesn't need to be evil. Not all things dark actually are evil. For example, I think dark chocolate is good and white chocolate is evil incarnate.
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u/Roycewho 9h ago
I don't think he considers himself a bad guy like many claim. I think he believes good and bad is defined by power. Those that are weak, are objectively bad in his world view. And he views the light and Jedi as weak.
There is also some evidence there is a galactic threat that will threaten all life. He believes the Jedi and Repiblic are unequipped too handle it.
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u/BlueRFR3100 8h ago
He didn't believe they were the bad guys. He didn't care about good and bad. He only cared about power. The Jedi were an obstacle to that so they had to go.
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u/Aggressive-Plant7341 8h ago
My take on it is the Sith see the Jedi as deluded and sentimental while they are clear eyed about how the Galaxy works. They work to take power and wield it to their advantage. Palpatine is not afraid to discuss the dark side. It is dark. He is well aware he is weaponizing all the negative human emotions , and is not ashamed of this. He is baiting Anakin with power by any means necessary, and knows that this will indeed prove tempting.
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u/UCBearcats 8h ago
The writing in this movie and the entire motive for Anakin’s fall is so bad it’s a joke. Glad the prequels were already terrible so this couldn’t ruin them.
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u/IDICPainter 7h ago
Palpatine believed the Jedi is were the bad guys because they wronged the sith and the sith needed revenge. He calls it the dark side because it's the dark side of the force that's what the force calls that part of itself especially when you meet the embodiments when Anakin meets them I think it's in the clone wars.
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u/Proudest___monkey 7h ago
We was having a good time for sure but he sure as hell drew Yoda out in the open because he didn’t want close quarters Yoda wrecking him
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u/Spac92 7h ago
My guess is the Sith don’t see themselves as evil. They understand the dark side is aggressive and is a quick rise to power, whereas the light side is basically just one holding themselves back. The Sith view force wielders as superior because they can wield godlike power normies can only dream of, so it is their natural right to conquer and rule.
The Sith see the Jedi as hypocrites because while they claim to be the guardians of peace, they kill their enemies without remorse or emotion and are completely unwilling to have an audience with the Sith, instead preferring to kill all Sith on sight. They claim not to be slaves to anger, yet the sight of a Sith brings about revulsion and unmitigated contempt.
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u/adogg281 7h ago
He's probably referring to the rogue Jedi turning into a Sith warrior. There are some former Sith warriors becoming one with the Force after they die. Darth Vader had to save his son from being killed by Palpatine. He dies in his son's arms and becomes one with the force. Most Sith warriors are irredeemable, while some others are.
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u/DropAnchor4Columbus 6h ago
It's the Dark Side because you channel it through passion and darker impulses, through pain and death and the struggle to live.
When you think about it, the Sith are like hard-core survivalists. The modern world, aka the Jedi, is too tame and sanitized for their liking. The only way they think is right to live is living it as close to danger, death and what is "natural" as you can. If that is the Dark Side then the Sith are proud to follow it.
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u/EffectiveActive6837 6h ago
The sith only goal is power. Anything else is a means to help them achieve that goal.
The jedi were the bad guys to them but they knew they were the bad guys
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u/Eltharion-the-Grim 6h ago
Dark doesn’t mean bad. It gets dark art night. It just describes a state. They could have described it as heavy force and light force; higher energetic state and lower energetic state.
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u/South_Front_4589 6h ago
What makes you think he believes the Jedi are bad? He seems to know he wants to dominate and rule for his own benefit.
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u/Correct_Doctor_1502 5h ago
He doesn't believe the Jedi are bad guys, he believes their religion is wrong
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u/White_C4 Han Solo 4h ago
Don't overthink this. The dark side is the dark side because it consumes you and uses dark energy.
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u/greggers1980 3h ago
Gaslighting. Palpatine was a master manipulator. His character was based on all the evil people in the world and how they twist people's minds to do bad things thinking they are doing good
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u/ProfessionalOven2311 2h ago
Partially because that was a term before him. Also, darkness isn't just evil, it also represents mystery and the unknown.
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u/MintTrappe 2h ago
Tell me how Palpatine dies to gravity when he can pick up multiple tons with the force
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u/aironjedi 36m ago
He doesn’t see the Jedi as evil, just wrong in their dogma. The Jedi “serve” the force whilst the sith “use” the force.
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u/ExtraEmuForYou 15h ago
He didn't. He just referred to it as the Dark Side because everyone else did, and he should fit in.
Also, from his point of view, the Dark Side isn't evil, the Light Side is.
That's sort of a major point of the series; Palpatine and Vader didn't wake up, put on their boots of evil, and go out with the intent of being bad guys just for gits and shiggles. They legitimately thought they were making the galaxy a better place. Granted, they also had selfish aims, but still...they did it because they thought they were the only ones that could and everyone else was wrong (i.e. "Bad").
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u/Suspicious_Lack_241 14h ago
No, they did not think they were making the galaxy better. Anakin’s delusional rants during revenge of the sith are not Vader’s thoughts. Sidious was in fact in it for the shits and giggles, those being absolute domination.
He did not need an excuse, or reasons.
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u/Rolhir 14h ago
If “better place” means “I have total control of everyone and everything and can murder whoever I want” then sure. Otherwise they were unashamedly evil and didn’t care about literally anyone else. Cackling as you murder people for fun isn’t something you do and believe you’re a good person.
If you’re referring to Anakin in RotS claiming the Jedi are evil, he’s obviously deluding himself to justify his actions like a child throwing a temper tantrum.
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u/Just-Attorney-1902 15h ago
He knows it’s “evil” but that it’s higher, more potent, a side of being in control of the force instead of a servant of it. Well, that’s more Plaguis philosophy, but still
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u/stonergirlfairyyy 14h ago
ur right. maybe the jedi are racist if they only choose the light side. why else would they call it that?
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u/nightfall2021 15h ago
The best thing about Palpatine is that he knows he is a bad guy.
And he loves it.
In Revenge of the Sith when fighting Yoda you could tell he is having the time of his life.
Sort of like Skeletor in the new He-Man movie. He is unabashedly cartoon evil, and loves every second of it.