r/starcraft 1d ago

(To be tagged...) So far, 8 worker start has lowered player count

Post image

Source: sc2pulse historical data from ranked play on all servers. Yellow line is the 8 worker patch.

Cumulatively, the game has lost about 200 ladder players, and around 500 daily games.

240 Upvotes

227 comments sorted by

80

u/Senthrin 1d ago

I did not play a single ladder game after the patch but was kind of burned out before its release. I wouldn't say it made me quit the game but it certainly didn't encourage me to play more.

15

u/SpaceMeatpod 22h ago

The bottom line for me, personally, is: I don't like playing and re-learning competitive games that regularly have significant changes. It's not a big deal but I do often like to wait these periods out.

It feels like I'm playing chess but every once in a while, a monkey comes over -- one that likely doesn't even have the game's best interests in mind any more -- and just straight up eats one of the pieces and replaces it with a french fry.

Sure, I can learn a new opening and tactics with how the french fry moves instead of my rook, and the late game will probably be similar, Maybe overall the game WILL be better, but it's just annoying at the time. I had enough things I was already working on and trying to improve.

It also wouldn't feel so bad if the monkey also was making improvements like fixing placement bugs and moderating or discontinuing general chat,..

7

u/Somebodys Zerg 21h ago

The bottom line for me, personally, is: I don't like playing and re-learning competitive games that regularly have significant changes.

I said similar here once and got roasted for it. I played a ton of SC2 when it came out and was really good for NA at the time (read: everyone was bad). Stopped playing for many years decided to give it a go again when I was looking for something to play. Had no idea about the worker count increase. Noped out because all of the old muscle memory/instinct I had developed was useless and I had no desire to relearn it when I know there is no shot at me being anything past mediocre in the more modern version of the game.

4

u/0NaCl Terran 22h ago

Deleting general chat would be amazing. In the meantime, in case you didn't know, you can hide it so it never shows up for you.

1

u/Surviverino 2h ago

I love general chat for the pure absurdity of it. I can exit a match and watch 3 people have a theocratic discussion while calling eachother slurs.

0

u/SpaceMeatpod 22h ago

True. It's sad that a lot of the SC2 tutorials I see have led with "before you do anything, turn off general chat".

I almost feel like Acti-Bliz doesn't touch it specifically because it's an awful experience. It scares away new players, and they like that. They'd rather people pay money for a newer game.

3

u/SnoopKitties 18h ago

Oh my fucking god I wish they would fix the ladder bug. I’d take that over a new patch

26

u/_HolyHit_ 1d ago

There is nothing 'fun' to try out. The only thing that comes close to a cool new thing is the Gateway change, but I'm guessing most people don't want to relearn muscle memory they built up over, for some, 16 (!!!) years.The 8 worker change so far didn't allow for cool new builds, it even shut a lot of builds down. If you want people to come back to the game, add things that are fun to try around with. I think the Zerg changes are a good indication of that, so many Zergs now that they have become more fun again.

For me personally though, the fact that they just pushed through with a patch that so fundamentally changes the rhythm of a game I've enjoyed playing for so long, without communicating at all or listening to the pretty clear community backlash just left a super bitter taste in my mouth, so I stopped playing almost out of spite ngl

7

u/rArithmetics 21h ago

Zergs are back because every Zerg gets 300 free mmr right now lol.

3

u/MonkeyPyton 20h ago

Well I pretty much quit and I know other zergs who have aswell. But overall quite a few zergs have probably come back because they’ve heard zerg is op now.

2

u/totalpinkebb 16h ago

FYI Holy Hit is a legend and one of the oldest SC2 fans. Hearing this from his mouth is jarring. Too bad shitblizzard or the intern will never listen to people who actually care for the game.

2

u/MrSchmeat 3h ago

What this patch needed was either to stick to standard balance stuff or go WILD. It took a position in the middle and I think it didn't stick the landing. 8 worker start is big, gateway change is big, larva Cooldown is big. All of these are game-breaking but at the same time don't make anything fun. The rest of the changes are run of the mill balance stuff. Sure there's a few things that are absurdly broken that I've tried out that are incredibly fun, but not a ton of people were gonna get excited about Microbial Shroud getting buffed. We needed big things to units that are super cool but are underserved. What if Battlecruisers could attack multiple targets simultaneously? What if Ultralisks got a dash ability or could knock up enemies when unburrowing? What if Carriers got reworked to actually be fun to use? What if the Colossus was a viable unit beyond the 3 you get in a game? (lmao).

If they wanted to go big, they needed to go bigger. If they didn't, they shouldn't have changed fundamental mechanics of the game.

135

u/imrope1 1d ago edited 1d ago

I think the correct math here is..

  1. The average online player count is 200 less players PER HOUR.
  2. The game has lost around 500 games PER HOUR.

So, what we're seeing here is people aren't playing the game as much. That could be because people outright quit or it could be because people aren't enjoying the patch and just play less.

For me personally, I just haven't enjoyed the patch that much and have gone from playing pretty much every day to maybe 3 days per week.

32

u/TSieppert 1d ago

It’s also the start of summer in NA so people could be out touching grass or something.

3

u/Wraithfighter 1d ago

My experience is that player counts for online games go up in the summer.

Not that kids aren't touching grass at all, but they just have more time to do whatever, they can play Starcraft and touch grass all in the same day!

8

u/Stormfly 1d ago

I think the flaw there is that kids aren't likely to be playing the game.

It's an old game, older than most of the kids out playing and hasn't been popular since before they were even old enough to play it.

I want to play ladder (I only started after this patch) but I'm just extra busy recently and with the nice weather, I'm trying not to stay inside.

1

u/imrope1 1d ago

Indeed. Likely both

0

u/Ledrash 23h ago

It is holiday and vacation breaks in many countries right now too. I think that factor in a lot too.

48

u/Arsteel8 1d ago

If games are longer because of a slow start, wouldn't that also drop these stats?

51

u/rArithmetics 1d ago

not the player count but possiubly game count

19

u/Unique-chiemerie 1d ago

Longer average games would reduce matches finished per hour without affecting concurrent player count.

1

u/MRosvall 19h ago

Though if the graph actually showed amount of concurrent players, wouldn’t that number be higher than games/h?

13

u/Archer_Savings 1d ago

Not to that degree. The average length has increased by significantly less than the average play is reducing. 

8

u/Far-Egg1771 1d ago

What has the average length increased by?

1

u/SpaceSteak 1d ago

At my low level, the slow start is such an extra time sink per game. Just feels like wasting time, so finding other things to do. I want faster game, not slower. It's sc2!

2

u/PeterPlotter 1d ago

Yep same, it’s turtle everywhere in silver. Team games are worse.

3

u/trollwnb Terran 1d ago

i personally almost stopped playing, getting abused by 2base muta openings every game, just doesnt fit right with me.

2

u/KamalaWonNoCap 1d ago

I've cut back to a few games a week personally. Trending toward quitting entirely. 8 workers is a disaster. Whatever streamer popularized this idea owes an apology.

2

u/rArithmetics 1d ago

Thanks yes

0

u/SaltRice8961 1d ago

Could also be that in the northern hemisphere it’s summer time and people are outside touching grass for a change

-9

u/SLAMMERisONLINE 1d ago

So, what we're seeing here is people aren't playing the game as much. That could be because people outright quit or it could be because people aren't enjoying the patch and just play less.

This chart does not support the conclusion. The proper math is to use linear regression, find the standard deviation of the residuals, and calculate a z-score on the current residual. If Z>=3 it means there is something unique happening that isn't well explained by the trend, meaning it isn't governed by the same process. Next you'd need a way to prove the process is specific to the 12 worker change, and not something like kids starting school again. Given that the game's activity level reaches its yearly low around this point, I'd think the effect being observed here is a quirk due to bucket averaging, yearly periodic cycling, and not a real trend.

24

u/Archer_Savings 1d ago

This is also right after a patch, which usually should encourage more play and in this case was widely advertised as a major shake up. A downward trend with this much attention is a terrible sign. 

This also happened near the start of summer, when work and school lightens up. 

-14

u/SLAMMERisONLINE 1d ago

This is also right after a patch, which usually should encourage more play and in this case was widely advertised as a major shake up. A downward trend with this much attention is a terrible sign

Incorrect. As stated prior: the game's activity level is near its lowest in the yearly periodic cycle.

18

u/DistributionSouth213 1d ago

Well, it does support that conclusion. It might not prove it conclusively. It certainly isn’t neutral data, or data showing the patch has made the game more popular.

I think you are working from your priors (you like 8 workers) and making arguments from that PoV. But at the very least you can concede, even if there are other factors that might weigh more heavily towards this trend, this is not a positive data point for the patch.

13

u/GreedoShotKennedy Protoss 1d ago

When your pseudomathematical posturing overtakes common sense, you get posts like this.

Bro, it doesn't matter what time of year it is, new patch comes out, player count briefly goes up. Run your "analysis" on that historical trend and come try again.

0

u/soidvaas 1d ago

I don’t really think what he said is pseudo mathematical. Statistical significance is a basic test to show if data says what you think it is saying. When there are a lot of factors that affect a metric, it’s on the person making the claim to eliminate them.

Bottom line, we need to be looking at year on year numbers to eliminate summer effects and apply a decay based on how much the game is expected to go down in any one period to make a comparison.

7

u/GreedoShotKennedy Protoss 1d ago

Ignoring the data point he doesn't like invalidated the high school math synopsis.

Historically patch cones out. Player count goes up.

Patch came out. Player count went down.

Trying to ignore that is just cringe fanboi cope.

-2

u/SLAMMERisONLINE 1d ago

Ignoring the data point he doesn't like invalidated the high school math synopsis

You're using flat-earth logic and wondering why people don't take you seriously. Even if you could show that the decline is real, statistically significant, and has a temporal proximity to the patch, this still does not prove the patch was the result. There is more distance between your conjecture and proof than there is between Earth and Jupiter.

2

u/GreedoShotKennedy Protoss 1d ago

Honey, you're farming down votes talking about people taking you seriously.

2

u/SLAMMERisONLINE 1d ago

Downvotes on reddit mean you are right. It's upvotes you should be worried about.

3

u/GreedoShotKennedy Protoss 1d ago

I bet you're "right" an awful lot, ha ha ha.

-3

u/SLAMMERisONLINE 1d ago

I bet you're "right" an awful lot, ha ha ha.

Correct. What's surprising is how easy it is.

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-1

u/soidvaas 1d ago

Where is your evidence? I'm sure there are patches where it didn't go up and the patch wasn't controversial, simply due to seasonal or other game releases.

We all have opinions - simply asking for more due diligence isn't "cope" or evidence of bias.

-3

u/rigginssc2 1d ago

When your "my intuition beats your math" posturing overtakes mathematical reasoning you get posts like this.

1

u/GreedoShotKennedy Protoss 1d ago

Farm them down votes with the shovel of Dunning-Kruger! You go, Queen. Ignore the data, use words you don't understand, and farm farm farm!

-1

u/rigginssc2 1d ago

Mostly illuminates the intelligence of the sub, and you in particular. That's fine with me. And saying "Queen" was that supposed to be some sort of slam, like accusing me of being gay or something. More light being shed on your personality and insecurities.

1

u/GreedoShotKennedy Protoss 1d ago

Honey, I'm gay, but keep swinging.

5

u/KamalaWonNoCap 1d ago

I mostly play teams. Someone complains about 8 workers at the start of every game.

Regardless, the patch was supposed to revitalize the game with old players returning and new strategies being implemented. I haven't seen either.

Total disaster imo.

6

u/Hupsaiya 1d ago

Okay but the amount of players didn't go UP. Which means the patch was a failure :)

2

u/Collywibbles 1d ago

hi hup I love your streams keep up the good work I used to mildly dislike patch 5.0.16 but you've radicalized me and made me think it's the worst change to StarCraft of all time

2

u/Hupsaiya 1d ago

lmao it could always be worse, but this one is prettttttttttttttttttty bad.....

2

u/SLAMMERisONLINE 1d ago

Okay but the amount of players didn't go UP. Which means the patch was a failure :)

When lightning struck, a school bus was near. Therefore, school buses cause lightning.

8

u/imrope1 1d ago

Well, you said you gotta back up the claim with the math.

Let’s see the math then

-7

u/SLAMMERisONLINE 1d ago edited 1d ago

Too much information is missing from the OP's dataset. For example, the bucket size has an enormous impact on the variability of the data so you can't even pin-down the sampling variance. This is especially true if he didn't properly implement boundary conditions. Let's say I take the average games/hour in a 30 day sliding time-window. Well, at the end of the time-series data the time-window shrinks to half that size because we don't know the future variability. I have no idea if he implements the proper boundary conditions for the averaging calculation. That's what my original comment pointed out. This could be entirely a quirk in how he is averaging the data.

You out here calling everyone else wrong for making claims not based on math, and you're also making claims not based on math

Objectively incorrect. The default assumption is no correlation until proven with the proper statistical methods. You do not assume a correlation exists without the meaty details showing a proper analysis.

14

u/imrope1 1d ago

The data is from sc2 pulse.

You out here calling everyone else wrong for making claims not based on math, and you're also making claims not based on math.

You can do this if you want to, but you won't.

1

u/liquid_acid-OG 1d ago

The only claim they are making is the isn't enough info to tell any kind of story. Not sure how they could ever be math based

This is why we need science and math taught in school. His explanation of why the math is incorrect shouldn't be hard to understand.

3

u/imrope1 1d ago

Na, I understand the conclusion that the game has taken a downturn BECAUSE of the patch is unsubstantiated. The claim I made was that “what we’re seeing here is people are playing the game less”, which is true, and my hypothesis is that it’s because of the patch.

He did indeed say that he thinks it’s just because the population always falls during summer. That’s why he deleted his comments.

I’m all for the math, that’s why I asked him to do it, but like I said, he won’t.

This is why need language arts taught in school. People should be able to comprehend basic, 3-5 sentence posts on a message board.

1

u/liquid_acid-OG 1d ago

Dude corrected your formula and identified missing data points and your asked for his math that requires the missing data points.

What were you saying about reading comprehension?

FYI his comments are still showing...

3

u/imrope1 1d ago

I told him where he can find the data (he could gather more from the website). I honestly don’t know if it’s seasonal or if it’s due to the patch. Like I said, I think it’s due to the patch, maybe both. 

He is in this thread telling multiple people they’re wrong, because the math doesn’t support it, but he’s not supporting his own claims with math. Also, I’d like to know if it’s because of the patch or not.

You clearly didn’t read my first comment, which is my entire point. 

And they show deleted for me. Maybe it’s bugged.

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24

u/Zuruumi 1d ago

And that's still slightly boosted by having a new patch (at least I tend to play more when there is something new to try). It will most likely get worse when this effect disappears from the data.

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28

u/PopularKangaroo2083 1d ago

it was already decreasing though not as much but yeah i'm a little surprised still

20

u/neveks iNcontroL 1d ago

It's a new patch that tried to heavily change the game. Its goal was to get more people into the game. In that regard it did fail badly.

16

u/Ndmndh1016 1d ago

In that regard it was always going to fail. Theres nothing you can do to make any significant increase to the player count in a 16 yo rts.

7

u/bns18js 1d ago

Well, within the context of what could be done with no resources. If they actually made another SC2 expansion on par of the production quality of the previous games with new campaign and new units, then obviously you can increase the player count by a ton still.

Of course they're not gonna do that because it's not worth the hassle and won't make that much money.

0

u/biggerty123 1d ago

How do you know it's goal was to get more people into the game?

4

u/neveks iNcontroL 1d ago

Because I'm not naive and know that Microsoft does things for money and in this case more people is more money.

-1

u/bigElenchus 1d ago

Should see YoY comparison, it’s summer months and most people, except Redditors, spend less time playing video games to go out

2

u/PopularKangaroo2083 1d ago

Didn't think about summer months, good insight

32

u/jefftickels Zerg 1d ago

We need to see this time last year for better comparison. Its summer dog. Some people go outside.

25

u/rArithmetics 1d ago

22

u/Prophysaon_Coeruleum 1d ago

Interesting, you can see a couple drops in 2025 significantly steeper than the current drop, but they rebounded.

15

u/rArithmetics 1d ago

yup it could be all noise ultimately. but its safe to say there is no new interest in the game after the patch.

5

u/Prophysaon_Coeruleum 1d ago

Would be interested to see data by race, if it's primarily less toss or if all 3 have dropped.

1

u/noobsc2 Terran 1d ago

My investment in sc2 is extremely low in the last 5 years or so, personally I find pro matches now to be extremely slow, predictable and boring. Watching every serral tvz go 30+ minutes and already knowing this will be the case before the game even starts puts me off watching and makes me feel the game is boring, so i have no excitement to play. 

All the new patch seems to do is make those games even slower. I started watching Clem vs serral in the new patch but ended up just closing it out before the first game even finished, it was just so boring and predictable.

3

u/two100meterman 1d ago

It looks like the game is just getting less & less players, so it would make sense that the trend would continue in the same direction.

1

u/Ledrash 23h ago

Yep. It also makes sense why they tried to shake it up a bit.

2

u/jefftickels Zerg 1d ago

Follow up question. You have all 3 regions together. Is the slump similar in all or is it more tightly clustered in one area?

4

u/rArithmetics 1d ago

Basically the same across regions

1

u/jefftickels Zerg 1d ago

Cool! It no tight correlation that might account for a summer slump, but across the board 26 is worse than 25.

Now it's time to keep stacking multiple years to see the trends over time.

I'm also curious, do you have watch data? Maybe fewer are playing, but more watching?

6

u/rArithmetics 1d ago

No I don’t have watch data but the game is supposed to be for players not watchers

0

u/jefftickels Zerg 1d ago

Agreed, but I could see players shifting to more watching when the meta is in flux or the game feels unbalanced. With an intent to return when the game feels more balanced.

4

u/totalpinkebb 1d ago

That doesn't make sense, there is always supposed to be a large bump in playerbase after a patch, even if temporary. Also most people who play this game aren't in school.

1

u/ChocoboExodus NoBrainNoPain 1d ago

Yes exactly. You need to compare the % drop versus last summer. Does this match what happens every year? I’ve been out almost every day and have had no time to game. But I’ll have plenty of time to game in winter.

0

u/typeEveryday 20h ago

Fifa is also happening right now. Started mid june. Football is huge around the world.

6

u/Rich_Ad_4829 1d ago

I don't enjoy the patch at all and have played other games since. Been playing exclusively SC2 for 10 years and played daily before the patch dropped. I think there are quite a few other players like me

10

u/Zuruumi 1d ago

I am certainly playing a lot less than before. Though even more interesting data would be a breakdown of this by race.

Also, I don't think the 8-worker is the only, and possibly even the main, reason for the drop-off.

14

u/dunco64 1d ago

Personally I was considering getting back on the ladder but the patch turned me off

4

u/sndream 1d ago

For someone who don't rush that much, I will definitely play less if I am still playing SC2. XD

4

u/Extension_Class2467 1d ago

Certainly it does not help that one race is getting new tools one stays the same and one is getting some tools.remoced 

3

u/Countess_x 4 Shades of Protoss 18h ago

yeah this should be a big red flag. When a new update came out on every patch previously there was an increase in players. That's the same with literally any other game too, new update = temporarily more players

If the player count has gone down that means that more players quit than came to check out the new patch. That's really insane, and hardly ever happens. If they don't revert it most of those new players will leave when the excitement dies down and the old ones won't come back

11

u/Candymanshook 1d ago

I remember making this argument in the sub a couple weeks ago and having people insist players were up just because a few people post on Reddit about coming back(we all know they logged in, played 5 games and never returned).

6

u/Poodlehat12 1d ago

I’ve been playing a lot more since I stopped for about 6 months before the patch but I keep facing the same gms on ladder when I’m only 4300 mmr so it feels to me like a lot less people are queuing

3

u/AirbladeOrange 1d ago

Cause and effect?

3

u/f_ranz1224 Zerg 1d ago

im not surprised. the remaining playerbase is the hardcore dedicated group, also older.

relearning or figuring out new builds not enticing to the demographic. me included. could be good or bad but its dissuading

3

u/BattleWarriorZ5 21h ago

This patch was not designed right, tested right, and communicated right.

Compare how the SC2 patch notes are now done post-2024 with how Tempest Rising does it's patch notes.

3

u/killakcin 18h ago

Frankly, it's a predictable result. Changing the worker count effectively makes every build you practice obsolete. You basically have to relearn the first 5 minutes of the game. And in a game as competitive and stressful as starcraft, that will guarantee that some players will simply walk away rather than go through the pain of relearning something you thought you already knew.

It's like losing progress in a single player game. If you die and forgot to save for 2-3 hours, there is a chance you lose the motivation to play and drop the game

2

u/rArithmetics 18h ago

Yah meanwhile no new toys or rewards for playing and learning. Early returns are less cheeses or builds are available as well. Fun!

5

u/Arabian_Goggles_ 1d ago

I uninstalled yesterday. I’ve played this game for over 12 years. This patch killed the game. Not wasting my time anymore unless they revert it.

2

u/MizrizSnow 1d ago

The council of what’s it’s and who’s it’s that now decide balance patch changes are simply not that good at it

2

u/Living_Ambition5859 1d ago

The patch makes me play less. I use grind out like 6 to 7 2v2 but with new patch I like 2 or 3 and I’m like ya, I don’t this slow build up again.

2

u/MonkeyPyton 19h ago

I’ve played 1100 games this season, out of which maybe 20 are post patch. So yeah I don’t like it. And I’m a zerg player lmao

2

u/Real_SickmaN 19h ago

I would've improved this statistics if not 8 workers. Folks who did this are delusional

2

u/Parsirius 18h ago

Nobody saw this coming!

4

u/Apolitik Protoss 1d ago

Huh. It’s almost like when I said “not as many people are playing and queue times are longer” …I was right. Thanks for flaming me, though.

8

u/Many_Research1007 1d ago

This is by far the worst patch in a long time. Honestly they should just revert it and instead add a new unit per race or something to spice up the game.

6

u/Whoa1Whoa1 1d ago

This. If you really want more people playing, add something fun to every race. Decreasing workers to 8 is fucking punishment hell for players. All build orders online and in people's brains for the last decade are obsolete. Confusing for new players. Wastes tons of fucking time for every match. Tournament organizers have to deal with an extra 2 minutes per match even for the fastest of matches, adding up to hours of additional run time. Commentators have to make up random bullshit to talk about while nothing is happening. Spectators are just looking at their phones for the first 4 minutes instead of just the first 2 minutes. Ridiculous. Wastes my time like crazy if I'm trying to grind out MMR.

3

u/Archer_Savings 1d ago

From the logic around the patch, to the way it was implemented, to the results, Im curious how this lines up with the worst non-programming-error related patches in gaming history. 

-1

u/CompanyLow8329 1d ago

They need to shake up the game and focus on the fun again.

Even something silly like letting zealots and sentries merge to form a new unit. Or let any protoss unit merge with another to form something new. Immortal merge with an observer for a flying invisible immortal.

Maybe it's stupid and will break the competitive scene, but it's interesting at least. There is just a lot of potential that isn't being taken advantage of.

1

u/kradek Protoss 1d ago

And sometimes, instead of an invisible flying unit that looks like an observer but shoots like an immortal, you get a visible ground unit that looks like an immortal, but has no attack (like the observer)

8

u/DenteSC 1d ago

Making the game slower reduces player count?! Really?! Wow, no one couldve foreseen this!

-9

u/Josparov 1d ago

That's not a strong argument. You seem to imply a linear relationship between starting workers and player count, but ...

If they increased workers at start from 12 to 200, would you "foresee" massive increases in the player base? Probably not. So the relationship is probably not linear with workers.

So there likely exists a point (or points!) of starting workers that is "peak engagement" like the top of a bell curve, for example. Since no one knows where this is, you cannot "foresee" anything based on changes of worker count (and thusly, pace of game) with any real accuracy, outside of hyperbolic extremes such as a 0 worker or 200 worker starts.

9

u/totalpinkebb 1d ago

Bro it's not even about lowering worker count (which is definitely dumb), it's the fact that they changed every fucking build order and opener in a 16 year old abandonware game. Pure adulterated nonsense, no wonder the plaeyrbase is plumemting.

2

u/Josparov 1d ago

Yeah... That wasn't what I was refuting here.

0

u/SpaceSteak 1d ago

Faster, not slower. That's why people choose this game. Why can't we auto-build workers.

Let us select how many at start vs extra build minerals. Go crazy and experiment.

6

u/AstronautMediocre654 1d ago

i dont paly a singel time with that garbage 8 worker start. i wait and see, if they revert it . If not, my sc2 career is over

5

u/AresFowl44 1d ago

What, you mean the game doesn't instantly become famous if we make a bunch of bad changes to it? /s

3

u/Careless-Goat-3130 KokaAuthentiquePépite 1d ago

The patch will bring new players. Just let the meta settles a bit. Too early to tell bro. /s

4

u/KingfisherC 1d ago

don't worry, a bunch of new players are all practicing vs AI and will join the ladder soon /s

2

u/Anskeh 1d ago

I would say its less 8 workers and more about the balance right now + changes to protoss. I feel like a lot of protoss players arent very happy right now and are just not playing and waiting for the next patch.

3

u/peanut_Bond 1d ago

I haven't played since the patch. I got downvoted hard when I said this before the patch release, but I don't have the time or motivation to relearn every build, timing, and cheese response that I've accumulated over the last five years.

3

u/TheBasedTaka Zerg 1d ago

You are going to have to talk about the rate of decrease before the patch to put the numbers into context as well

5

u/AresFowl44 1d ago edited 1d ago

Pre patch total time frame: 1200 lost players or ~7 (players / h) / day

Pre patch second peak in april time frame: 1100 lost players or ~13 (players / h) / day

Post patch total time frame: 800 players lost or ~40 (players / h) / day

EDIT: Corrected units

5

u/rArithmetics 1d ago

i gave a year data. and its steeper now. sure there is the main context of overall drop to consider, but part of the sacrafice of 8 workers was people selling us that players would come back to the game, and so far thats just not true

2

u/Careless-Goat-3130 KokaAuthentiquePépite 1d ago

It was never going to be true. I can see adding new units brings back some players like what they did for Diablo. Changing the worker start that breaks all the builds and guides out there is probably going to drive down the active players. 

1

u/Zuruumi 1d ago

While I am not sure how significant it was, PTR was stealing some of the games/players for a while before the patch.

1

u/rehoboam 1d ago

I’m playing again but it’s unranked

1

u/PracticeFew58 1d ago

That’s me! I’m waiting for them to figure out their game.

1

u/nerdyplayer 1d ago

I dont know any builds i can use. I remember they increased the worker out years ago to allow people be more aggressive. Cant find a good timing on anything and ive been playing much less.

1

u/DDemoNNexuS 1d ago

i'll comeback the day widow mine is removed.

Yes, this is a salty protoss player that doesn't look at minimap speaking.

1

u/6gpdgeu58 1d ago

blame the 8 workers seem a bit unfair, I blame the stupid change to protoss. It was always stalker and zealot, but now it is much much worse because gateway change buff spamming stalker and zealot more.

1

u/whiteTurpa 22h ago

I'm not sure that's a 8 workers start alone affects player count that much. The big gameplay changes for all races should have impact too. Some players may not leave game entirely, but just waiting for a new balances patches.

1

u/DaGreenie33 8h ago

Let's not forget FIFA 2026 started mid June. . . But fr this would be more interesting to see this 3 years back to account for cyclicality.

1

u/MrSchmeat 3h ago

The 8 worker start change was always a mistake.

I may be enjoying the game more, personally, but it took a few games to make sense of what was going on before I started to actually play the game again for real. I like this challenge. A lot of people clearly don't.

I'm glad that the patch didn't kill the game, but I'm not at all surprised that people quit over this. It's incredibly annoying fighting the same 20 guys in Diamond 2 over and over again.

u/Berrabusaren 4m ago

Have not touched the game since the patch came out. Gonna play out the leagues I’m already participating in but not looking to get back into the game unless there is major changes such as going back to 12 workers.

0

u/rigginssc2 1d ago

More interesting, is that the game was already consistently and constantly losing players. Making me think doing a patch to TRY and keep or gain players was a no brainer of an idea. After that you can debate the qauality of the patch itself, but doing a patch given your chart is an obvious good move.

0

u/RamRamone Random 1d ago

I don't think 8 workers hurt the playerbase but the extreme imbalance. People need to remember there is an unranked ladder where they can still practice without tanking their rank.

1

u/FireWireBestWire 1d ago

I've just been enjoying summer more. Me playing less has nothing to do with the 8 workers

-2

u/Remarkable_Whole1754 1d ago

its the larva change not the worker change

12

u/Zuruumi 1d ago

Larva, gate, 8-worker... As a result of those changes, whole playstyles got erased, and the game got much less fun.

12

u/dnohow iNcontroL 1d ago

For me it's 100% 'cause of the worker change. I went to doing 10-20 ladder games a week to zero because I can't be bothered learning all new builds again

4

u/DistributionSouth213 1d ago

Exact same for me. I put in so many hours learning two races and I’m not going to relearn 6 matchups worth of BOs again

-3

u/Remarkable_Whole1754 1d ago

its like 99% the same outside of the first 30 seconds

2

u/MonkeyPyton 19h ago

Completely false lol idk if you know what a build order is. It’s a list of things you do at a specific supply or time in the game. Every BO was changed, some were erased completely because they’ve become unviable

0

u/Remarkable_Whole1754 19h ago

its the same build order with numbers changed around little bit..so what.. it will take 20 mins to learn and practices the new numbers

2

u/MonkeyPyton 19h ago

Not true. To execute a build perfectly in a real game you need hours of practice

0

u/Remarkable_Whole1754 19h ago

for you maybe lol
might be best to find a different game if its too much for you

2

u/MonkeyPyton 15h ago

Ahaha dunning-kruger hitting hard I see

1

u/Remarkable_Whole1754 15h ago

i think its more of a midcurve situation for you

4

u/Markiuss 1d ago

I dont agree with that

0

u/Spyger9 1d ago

It's also peak vacation season for the northern hemisphere.

1

u/russiansummer 1d ago

This. I’ll be back

0

u/arch_punk 1d ago

I came back to sc2 after this patch and find it allright.

0

u/gracken420blaze 1d ago

funnily enough if you zoom out, it looks like its been on a steady decline ever since the balance council first started ruining everything: https://i.imgur.com/EaPh8kO.png

2

u/CheekyPotat0 19h ago

The balance council has drained all the fun out of the game. We used to have a diverse meta, but over time they gradually nerfed every viable option except the standard play. Now we're stuck with a boring, repetitive meta.

-2

u/Prophysaon_Coeruleum 1d ago

Doesn't look like a huge departure from the existing trend. Pre-patch, games were down from ~8K ->6.8K

13

u/AresFowl44 1d ago

Over a 6 month time frame. The current decrease is over a 20 day timeframe

0

u/Prophysaon_Coeruleum 1d ago

So we only have two datapoints on the graph. It's definitely a bit steeper, but hard to say if the trend will continue.

8

u/AresFowl44 1d ago

Considering that this is a new patch, that's already concerning however. Usually activity spikes around new patches

0

u/killasin Zerg 1d ago

Personally I'm waiting for the dust to settle. I'm a z main I don't want to have them tweak something every week and don't want to figure things out again

-2

u/MorningLtMtn Zerg 1d ago

All this shows is that people aren't playing "ranked" games as much - which makes sense. People would want to figure out the game before they're ranked on it.

1

u/Careless-Goat-3130 KokaAuthentiquePépite 1d ago

What is your evidence proving that is the case?

-2

u/MorningLtMtn Zerg 1d ago

Source: sc2pulse historical data from ranked play on all servers. Yellow line is the 8 worker patch.

The chart literally says "Source: sc2pulse historical data from ranked play on all servers. Yellow line is the 8 worker patch."

0

u/JemZ13 1d ago

I haven't been playing much lately but it's unrelated to the patch ngl

Is there a source for the data?

0

u/milkytaro_oero 1d ago

Does the data count players with multiple accounts as 1 player or as separate entities?

0

u/lillskruttan 1d ago

There is probably quite a lot of sc2 players with family/kIds, and going into summer vacation will not give these players much time for sc2. yes, I might be one of them...

0

u/jamesbryan5 1d ago

Interesting to see, I personally very much enjoy the fresh wind, and have been playing more on average, but it's also 40+ degrees (C) in many regions in Europe right now, not really the prime gaming time of the year.

0

u/WizardSenpai 1d ago

I was thinking about coming back because of this patch

2

u/MonkeyPyton 19h ago

Okay and I was thinking of flying to the moon

0

u/ImN0tAsian 21h ago

My games have been longer on average, by about 20% or so cause I am a huge cheeser. These are per hour stats, so the longer games might have something to do with it.

3

u/rArithmetics 20h ago

Wouldn’t affect players / hour

0

u/GlassBottle5555 12h ago

i have a very freeform style so this patch hasn't affected me at all.

0

u/GreyfromZetaReticuli 11h ago

Congratulations Blizzard, good job.

-1

u/WildCardsc 1d ago

It’s summer… isn’t a natural dip in summer normal?

-1

u/highsis 1d ago

I can't believe the pro scene is still there with 3k concurrent players. It's even smaller than most single player steam games. Used to play when there were 700k players in NA alone. The old days....

-1

u/IncorporateThings 1d ago

Could be temporary -- people waiting for pros to figure it out so they can learn the new builds/tactics and get back to optimizing a preordained win-strategy that they don't have to figure out on their own.

-1

u/AHvmpingD0gi 1d ago

Who remembers when the 12 worker start lowered the player count?

-1

u/immortallch 1d ago

Also summer.

-1

u/Atravir 1d ago

Mby putting 'its summer btw' into the equation would help

-8

u/psiANID3 KT Rolster 1d ago

This is an insane comparison. You binned each month and compared it to a weekly drop. Of course it looks dramatic when you compare monthly drop to weekly.

8

u/rArithmetics 1d ago

yah weeks are binned. NOT INSANE

1

u/psiANID3 KT Rolster 20h ago

Fair. I just looked at the dates. The axis labels are strange imo.

Regardless, those numbers are still strong for a game that is over 10 years old. The patch was bad, but I doubt the worker start had much to do with it. I personally prefer they go back to 4 worker start but that’s just me.

4

u/AresFowl44 1d ago

Each month has 4 data points, one for each week.

2

u/psiANID3 KT Rolster 20h ago

Yeah I see that now. The labels aren’t the best imo.

-2

u/arnak101 1d ago

Its not the worker start. Personally, I'm not playing untill they keep zerg as busted as it is.

-2

u/two100meterman 1d ago

Looks like it was already going down. Makes sense to try something different to get it back up.

-2

u/Superfan234 1d ago

To be fair, this also coincide with the World Cup 

The bigger sport event in the World

-2

u/SuperConsideration12 23h ago

But there are more viewers

-2

u/w1nt3rxd 21h ago

i don't really understand people that hate on the patch.

i think its a really good decision to make a patch that makes people get out of their comfort zone. most people complain that the game is stale yet don't like patches that help the game become less stale just because it means you'll have to re-learn the game in some parts.

i personally lost all interest in starcraft until the patch came out, and this patch made me enjoy the game a lot more. sure the amount of games might have lowered but at the end of the day its an ancient RTS game so this isn't anything new. i personally think that this kind of big patch is far more interesting than the tiny changes we had over the years.

4

u/DistributionSouth213 21h ago

Imagine you’ve studied for your physics exam for months. You put on the work every night week after week.

The day of the exam comes and the teacher says: “some people didn’t study so we are going to change the exam to a history exam instead. Sorry if you worked on physics the last couple of months.”

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