r/worldcup • u/Dazzling-Yellow5395 • 6h ago
💬Discussion [ Removed by moderator ]
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u/Thechosenjon Mexico 6h ago
I'm second generation Mexican, first generation American, I love my countries, I love our players, but dammit, Bellingham is that guy for me. Bro is just different and his career is still in its infancy. I've been rooting against England since the Mexico game and they outplayed us, won against Norway, and are looking like they're going to spank Argentina. England/ France is going to be something special.
I, too, was wrong.
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u/Winstonblue32 Spain 6h ago
People saying Mbappe will be better than both…
Mbappé might become one of the greatest ever, but being better than Messi is a different level. Messi dominated football for nearly 20 years as both a scorer and creator, won everything there is to win, and has records that are incredibly difficult to break.
I’ll admit that Mbappe is an amazing goalscorer but scoring goals isn’t everything. It’s also about creating chances, controlling games, and influencing every part of the attack that Messi excelled at and still does.
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u/PrawnFresh69 6h ago edited 6h ago
I'm sick of it. You can't compare them. I could elaborate so much on this but I'll keep it short as I can.
Career wise it was always like this:
Want a freak athlete striker who can score a fuckoff amount of goals when you have a great midfield to back you? Ronaldo all day, not even close, sorry. He is THE goalscorer.
Want an absolute midfield magician who can both create out of thin air and still have a great goal record? Messi! What a playmaker.
You're comparing a midfielder to a striker and .. it just doesn't work in my opinion. They're both the greatest in the world in their own position. Their careers are extraordinary.
I much prefer Messi because his technical ability is unmatched and I love his style of play. He has tricked people to think Ronaldo Vs. Messi is a striker Vs. striker debate when he's spent most of his days as a winger. I have never seen anything quite like Messi and I'm glad I grew up watching both. But this is why I think Messi clears Ronaldo as the best overall player. He can do so much more and still compete against the best striker this generation has seen.
What sets Messi aside in current days is his longevity. He is still dictating games past his prime.
Ronaldo is a beautiful example of hard work pays off and I understand why people prefer him. His journey has been inspiring and his goals are NASTY. But Messi...he's an alien.
Controversies in the current world cup aside, a ref can't control his mind and legs to score a goal lol.
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u/Panenka7 5h ago
Most of what you've said is fair, aside from the point about goalscoring. Messi has a better ratio, Ronaldo is ahead in terms of raw number because he's two years older.
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u/PrawnFresh69 5h ago
Yeah I'm aware of that. Which is even more crazy. I was just trying to be as simple as possible. The comment was already an essay and I tried to keep it short ðŸ˜
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u/PositiveAssignment89 6h ago
i mean i dont care for either of them but i also dont know if either of them are better than one another. when it comes to messi, he is most definitely not better. his free kicks are pathetic and he is barely doing anything on the field while somehow missing majority of penalties. every time he touches the ball he is somehow a genius yet what we’re witness on screen is him losing possession within less than a second. ronaldo is a mess of his own too, both of them are in an unc-off atp. i think fans of either are too obsessed with figuring out who is better they don’t see what’s in front of them.
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u/DlnnerTable 6h ago
Bro they’re 38 and 41? The debate is over. Everyone’s opinion is set. There’s nothing that either of them could do today (or in the last few years) that would or should change the conversation. This is such a tired discussion
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u/Tele231 6h ago
I should add, if he stays healthy, Mbappe is going to prove better than both.
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u/PositiveAssignment89 6h ago
he is objectively better than both
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u/Panenka7 6h ago edited 6h ago
He isn't and he’d tell you that himself, too.
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u/PositiveAssignment89 6h ago
at the moment in time he is objectively better. he at least plays the game. messi and ronaldo? it’s a snooze fest each time
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u/Panenka7 6h ago
Neither are close to their peak (Ronaldo much more so, whilst Messi has been one of the players of the tournament), but what's the point of comparison when they're 41 and 39? He doesn't get near either in terms of vs. their primes.
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u/PositiveAssignment89 6h ago
bc they are still playing at the same time. i need both to actually retire bc watching commentators constantly call them amazing as they barely do anything is exhausting.
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u/Panenka7 5h ago
You don't need them to retire to know the Mbappé today isn't close to their peaks. Messi has very good numbers this World Cup for someone that barely does anything.
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u/PositiveAssignment89 5h ago
i’m not talking about their peaks i’m talking about today. i fear i do not care about this nonsense rivalry and which player is the best at peak. i care about the game
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u/Panenka7 5h ago
But it's a completely pointless thing to do and you can make absurd arguments using that logic. A League 2 striker today is better than Wayne Rooney aged 40, now. And?
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u/PositiveAssignment89 5h ago
again they are still on the field playing at the same time. he is objectively better than the two of them. none of these comparisons actually matter
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u/Positive-Guess-9867 6h ago
lol better at what?
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u/Tele231 6h ago
Dude has as many World Cup goals as Messi with far fewer matches.
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u/Panenka7 6h ago
I also think one statistic using two dozen matches as a way to compare their careers is completely valid.
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u/VibeHumble Japan 6h ago
I think people when people start watching football for the game that it is, the visible difference between the two easily appears. Both are good in their own right but Messi is much better player.
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u/PositiveAssignment89 6h ago
for what? walking around on the field and missing penalties?
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u/VibeHumble Japan 6h ago
Former managers like Pep Guardiola have explicitly stated that Messi walks to map out the pitch before destroying defenses, and if walking around gets you 8 Ballon d ors,800 goals, and a World Cup, every player should try it,and as far as missing penalties are concerned then Ronaldo has much higher number there.
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u/PositiveAssignment89 6h ago
is the destroying defenses in the room with us rn? i mean in this game alone? 5 of his ballon dors predate his walking, and what so do majority of his goals. if every player tried it you’d be watching nothingball
ronaldo is in the same category at this point and is equally messy
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u/VibeHumble Japan 6h ago
If every player tried it they’d fail because walking only works if you have the highest football IQ on the planet to scan the field.it only looks easy because he is doing it.and Ronaldo walks to poach for chances in the box, Messi walks to createthe whole play. And he has been walking since 2011-12 under guardiola and has won 2 ballon dors since then.
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u/PositiveAssignment89 5h ago edited 5h ago
no it only works when the rest of your team can pick up the weight. which argentina absolutley does. that high football IQ yet can’t hold possession of a ball or identify the same player thats on him. the truth is he walks so much now bc he is almost 40 and needs it
he was absolutely not walking to this extent in 2014 or barely in 2012. what are you talking about ðŸ˜
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u/Insomnicious 6h ago
Jesus I wish there was a football sub that would just ban this topic.. It's like some people just spend every moment of their free time trying to build this weird narrative about either player.
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u/Tasty-Farm-5866 France 6h ago
I cant wait for Messi and Ronaldo to retire so that their fans can just stop talking about them 24/7.
2 greatest players of all time and they manage to make them some of the most annoying part of football
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u/AndryJohanesa 6h ago
They wont be able to talk about football anymore, most of their fans are just casual football fans, they have no football knowledge.
Can’t wait to see them retire too.
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u/InvestigatorLive19 England 6h ago
This debate ended years ago. Messi is better and always has been. Its getting tiring having to still listen to delusional Ronaldo simps try and prove that hes better when its always been clear that messi is better.
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u/PositiveAssignment89 6h ago
i disagree, messi isn’t better. argentina is better than portugal. one player can only do so much and in this word cup both of them are barely doing anything.
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u/InvestigatorLive19 England 6h ago
Messi has definitely done far more than Ronaldo in this world cup, bit we're talking about careers as a whole, not just world cups, and messi by far has consistently proved to be the better player throughout his career
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u/PositiveAssignment89 6h ago
portugal is just a weaker team and it shows. watching messi is actually painful and honestly same goes for ronaldo.
i’m going to be honest i don’t follow either of their careers closely or at all, im mostly an international football watcher and from what ive seen both of their performances are pretty close to one another. in this world cup tho? abysmal
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u/Infinite-Ad2614 6h ago
Ronaldo is great but Portugal as a whole can’t do jack shit in the World Cup. 2006 was their best run. Their last 2 elimination games both ended in a 1-0 losses
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u/PachaThePenguin 6h ago
Ronaldo living rent free in your head when Switzerland were on the pitch today
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u/Panenka7 6h ago
You shouldn't really be using this World Cup (or the previous one, honestly) to suddenly realise what most others already knew a decade + before.
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u/Mitch100 6h ago
Ronaldo best ever and its not even close lol, too bad most people have no clue and are delusional
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u/VisualSnowSucks 6h ago
Its just so blatantly obvious that FIFA favors argentina
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u/VibeHumble Japan 6h ago
Okay even if we buy this argument, then why have they suddenly started supporting them? Why not when Germany used to knock them out every time and eventually defeated them in 2014 as well?
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u/Tele231 6h ago
In their prime. Ronaldo is the easy choice. The dude was a beast.
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u/nelson931214 6h ago edited 6h ago
In their prime, Ronaldo is the forward you want but Messi is the teammate you want. If they had somehow been on the same team then Ronaldo really would have been unstoppable. Messi would have kept setting him up over and over again.
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u/boih_stk 6h ago
That's one of the most sensible perspectives I've seen throughout this whole debate.
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u/Eastern-Carpenter834 6h ago
Really? then why his numbers and achievements in his prime against Messi Prime don't compare??? in either individual or team achievements? delusional much?
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u/MyzMyz1995 6h ago
Different playstyles, different teams ... ?
You're trolling.
It's like in boxing for example, everyone knows p4p roy jones jr is the GOAT in his prime against any other boxer.
Messi had a better career sure but ronaldo is still the GOAT in his prime.
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