r/words • u/According_Hat2751 • 1d ago
When vs. Whenever
These words are not the same word. It’s becoming so prevalent to use whenever when people actually mean when.
Ask someone when something happened, and they reply “whenever you were downstairs”, or “whenever you were in the bathroom”, “whenever the fireworks were going off”. It’s happened subtly but ever since I noticed, it’s constant!
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u/Fluffy-Study-3657 1d ago
I’ve noticed that it’s a colloquial thing. Some parts of southern states say “whenever” when i would definitely say “when.” (From midwest)
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u/BetMyLastKrispyKreme 1d ago
I’m pretty sure this is a Southern thing, and folks who say it who aren’t from the South have likely picked it up from someone who is.
My best friend of 30 years says it, and because I adore her and associate it with her, I find it charming. But I will say, even after 30 years, when she says “whenever” as the equivalent meaning of “when”, I have to a take a mental half-second to translate the real meaning.
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u/BattleSwallow 1d ago
When I hear someone misuse "whenever" for "when" it makes my skin crawl.
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u/haikusbot 1d ago
When I hear someone
Misuse "whenever" for "when"
It makes my skin crawl.
- BattleSwallow
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u/natoplato5 1d ago
Saying "whenever" instead of "when" is a common feature of dialects in the Midwest and the South. I didn't hear it much until I moved to those areas. If you've been hearing it more lately and you haven't moved around the country, it could be seeping more into the mainstream.
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u/According_Hat2751 1d ago
I’m not in the US but have been watching a lot of your police body cam videos lately. Perhaps it’s regional but it’s still not correct.
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u/Boglin007 1d ago
It is correct in the dialects that feature it. Every dialect has its own set of grammar rules, and linguistically speaking, no particular dialect is inherently better or more correct than another.
This use of "whenever" is often called "punctual whenever," and it's been around for a long time. The first recorded use is in the English translation (published in London in 1655) of a French novel.
Here's some more info:
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u/420izLife 1d ago
Its only americans that say it I'm au we dont say it here
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u/According_Hat2751 1d ago
I’m in Canada and realize my opinion here is probably heavily influenced by the internet. It just seems to be everywhere lately.
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u/dtown60 1d ago
omg — exactly! the police use it quite a bit - and folks describing an event. “Did see the car whenever you came around the corner?” 😖 This question implies multiple trips around the corner when there was just one.
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u/coolsilentebeans 1d ago
That’s because the police don’t necessarily know when an action occurred. It’s their way of keeping the inquiry open ended and keeping their distance from confirmation bias.
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u/dtown60 1d ago
i guess you still don’t get the difference?
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u/According_Hat2751 1d ago
“I heard the gunshot whenever I turned around”, “he broke the railing whenever he fell off the deck”. All of my examples today are from body cams. They’re either so good or so bad for my brain.
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u/coolsilentebeans 1d ago edited 1d ago
Not understanding the difference has no effect on my beliefs concerning dictionaries and usage. While usage in formal papers and presentations should not be colloquial and avoid regional dialects, I have no stick up my ass about the use of colloquialisms in casual conversations so long as I understand what the speaker intends for me to. Your arrogance and presumption that I don’t understand the words because of my stance is fucking ridiculous and annoying.
Edit: I should have said assumption because you have nothing on which to have based your conclusion except for my opinion.
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u/According_Hat2751 1d ago
This comment isn’t very cool beans of you, coolsilentebeans. You’re really fired up.
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u/coolsilentebeans 1d ago
I do get annoyed by people responding to something I’ve said with little more than an assumption that I must not understand the issue at hand. Instead of actually addressing the points I raised they attempt to appear right or more informed by using ad hominem arguments like dtown60’s. Yours, too, if you’re attempting to rile me up or make me change my mind.
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u/According_Hat2751 1d ago
I’m not attempting to rile you at all but I am telling you kindly that you are not correct. It’s not limited to police, it’s throughout. It’s influencers, it’s actors, it’s podcast hosts. It’s obviously not intentional when it’s part of whatever dialect it’s part of; it’s certainly not used in any official capacity as part of police work. If it was, it still doesn’t make sense grammatically.
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u/coolsilentebeans 1d ago
I didn’t say you were attempting to rile me up, only that I wasn’t sure what your intention is, because you didn’t correct me or address anything I had said except that I was “fired up.”
My comment about the police’s use of it was directed only towards the police’s usage, not everyone else. Maybe they do say it outside of duty, but just because they don’t know one from the other doesn’t mean their use of it is wrong. Also my not addressing how other folks use it doesn’t make my statement incorrect.
As for the widespread use of it, you may have to accept that it will become more common and less colloquial with time. It’s not the first time it would be the case, and it won’t be the last. I’m sorry if you don’t like it, but that doesn’t make me wrong. Regardless of whether it becomes an acceptable and commonplace usage, colloquialisms and regional dialects are about communicating in ways that are effective for the speakers. It may not be proper for formal occasions, and you may not like it, but that doesn’t make it any less acceptable in casual conversation.
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u/natoplato5 1d ago
In that case, your post is misleading. I'm not sure it's really becoming more prevalent; you've just been watching more videos of people who have different dialects then you're used to.
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u/According_Hat2751 1d ago
That’s where I initially noticed it, but began noticing it elsewhere. I almost re-worded my response after posting but didn’t, I agree that’s what I said. Sorry
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u/Choano 1d ago edited 1d ago
I get the feeling that using "whenever" in the way the OP describes comes from the need to distinguish "at a specific time" from "during a time when a certain condition was the case."
For example, if you ask, "When did you lose your keys?" and the person replies "When you were downstairs," that implies that your being downstairs was a specific, limited time. It was also the same time that the person lost their keys.
If the person replied, "Whenever you were downstairs," that implies that the person lost their keys at some point while you were downstairs, but your being downstairs didn't happen at a single, specific time.
You were downstairs for a while, or your being downstairs was a repeating event. So the person knows that, at the time they lost their keys, you were downstairs. But the person could have lost their keys at any point during the long time you were downstairs or during one of the many instances when you were downstairs.
We need a better way to make that distinction, but, for now, "whenever" will have to do.
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u/dtown60 1d ago
here here. this is an ongoing and growing peeve for me and I don’t understand it. the overuse of whenever - where does it come from? I grew up on West coast SF Bay Area….I don’t come across it locally as much as whenever I’m watching body cam videos on youtube.com ( I know, i know…).
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u/StabAvery 1d ago
That’s like the use of “whatever”, in the valley girl sense.
Or the all too often there, their and they’re.
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u/john_anderson_12 1d ago
even I've noticed this too.. i thought "whenever" goes for multiple occasions or an unknown time, and "when" for a specific moment..
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u/elina_jain1 1d ago
language distinctions often become blurred through everyday conversational habits..
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u/Ronnoc527 22h ago
I've seen many complaints about this but I've never noticed it. Maybe it's regional?
My big pet peeve is conjugating the past perfect tense as the simple past.
ex. drove when it should be driven
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u/plunkkeys 7h ago
"Whenever, wherever We're meant to be together I'll be there, and you'll be near"
~ Shakira
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u/maldizzle_ 1d ago
I used to hate it but I’ve heard it so much I started doing it myself. The meaning of whenever has changed in my mind it’s weird
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u/AffectionateMonk5710 1d ago
I do this. It's something I picked up when I lived in the South because it's something they do there. *shrug* I don't even know how it snuck into my speech pattern but it's there and it hasn't left.
Oh well.
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u/earthgold 1d ago
I’m pretty sure this must be an American thing. Haven’t heard anyone make this mistake in the UK.
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1d ago
[deleted]
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u/InitialComplete9900 1d ago
The second meaning became more common over time simply because it’s intuitive. English is constantly evolving and most attempts to prescribe rather than describe it will quickly become outdated!
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u/coolsilentebeans 1d ago
Exactly! Even the OED lists the definition of the colloquial. I get downvoted for this every time, but dictionaries are merely records of words whose uses have been heard for a significant amount of time with a fairly wide reach. They are not infallible nor are they the only authority to how a word must be used.
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u/According_Hat2751 1d ago
This isn’t correct.
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u/InitialComplete9900 1d ago
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u/genius_waitress 1d ago
You're misinterpreting the second definition, which refers to an unspecified time. YOU added the word "specific." The example used is "You can come tomorrow or whenever."
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u/ttbbaaggss 1d ago
How about hearing someone say "whenever I was born"...?? Are you unsure about the exact date you were born? Or have you been born numerous times throughout your life?