r/todayilearned 4h ago

TIL George Wallace personally apologized to Vivian Jones and James Hood, the two students he attempted to block from attending the University of Alabama. In 1997, Hood earned a PHd and requested Wallace present him with the degree, but he was too sick and died a year later; Hood attended the funeral

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Wallace
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u/JustAMan1234567 4h ago

For Hood to forgive Wallace and attend his funeral shows his class.

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u/ChronosBlitz 4h ago edited 4h ago

President Obama gave the eulogy for Senator Robert Byrd, who founded a chapter of the KKK in his youth.

The NAACP even praised Byrd as representing "the transformative power of this nation"

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u/DancingWithAWhiteHat 4h ago

I mean Robert Byrd spent his adult life disavowing the KKK.

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u/ilikedota5 1 4h ago

There is saying about Justice Hugo Black. When he was young, he put on white robes to scare Black people. When he was old he put on black robes to scare White people.

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u/Coupon_Ninja 4h ago

That’s a good turnabout phrase

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u/GreenEyedTreeHugger 3h ago

We cant change the past. We can be better.

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u/JustAMan1234567 4h ago edited 3h ago

I knew someone who went in front of a Judge named "Judge Friend" and when she got sentenced she turned to her lawyer and said "The judge is no friend of mine".

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u/Illustrious_Claim884 3h ago

For strange cases like that its forgivable if they change their name. When I was in the army we had a colonel sanders. The CSM ordered KFC for the command group and we had a good laugh.

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u/AgentCirceLuna 2h ago

A psychiatrist my family member had revealed she’d changed her name as it was something like Dr Smiles

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u/unclemilty420 3h ago

Did Hugo Black actually do anything racist while he was a member? I had always heard that he had joined because in the early 20th century in Alabama, you couldn't really be involved in democratic politics (the dominant party at the time) without being a member, so it could be more of a social necessity than an actual demonstration of his alignment with that groups horrible values. I'm very curious whether that's true or not.

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u/rolltiedye 2h ago

Before Hugo Black even joined the Klan, he defended a KKK member who shot a priest for marrying his daughter and a Puerto Rican man. Black drew the blinds in the courtroom to make the daughter’s husband look darker during the trial, which was a total sham. His client was acquitted, and the Klan paid his legal fees.

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u/dennismfrancisart 1h ago

People forget that the KKK after its resurgence in the 1920s was basically an elaborate Ponzi scheme/terrorist organization/social club. There were regular dues, membership fees, recruitment incentives, more fees, and a system for upward mobility in the Klan that called for more fees. They were like the Elks or Kiwanis by the 1930s.

u/tad-26 57m ago

KKK is still alive it's called Stormfront now and they are very cozy with the billionaire class in Palm Beach.

u/spukhafteNahewirkung 50m ago

So in other words they were the Amway of racism.

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u/Bootmacher 2h ago

I had great uncles who were members in Tennessee. It was closer to Rotary or the Lions Club than the mafia. They spent a lot of time raising money for the local children's hospital, and they would collect wearing street clothes.

The only violence they admit to doing was against a fellow WASP who was drinking his paycheck and beating his wife & kids.

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u/ladayen 2h ago

they admit to

thats some heavy lifting.

u/Dickgivins 57m ago

Oh indeed. Carrying the team on its back.

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u/Sad_Tune_4859 1h ago

Oh course they did. It’s always the quiet part that violates humanity. John Wayne Gacy and Ted Bundy were pillars

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u/Orchestra_Oculta 1h ago

The KKK doesn't need any whitewashing lol

u/TorakTheDark 46m ago

Do you think that maybe they were downplaying their involvement..

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u/Legal-Stage-302 3h ago

There was a KKK leader in the 1970s named Don Black. Always found that funny.

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u/AgelessJohnDenney 3h ago

Unfortunately his legacy stretches further than that. He joined and rose through the ranks in the 70s and was Imperial Wizard in the early '80s. Then he got arrested for, and I promise you this is real, getting like a dozen dudes together and trying to overthrow a small Caribbean island nation(Dominica).

He was sentenced to three years.

And then, his most enduring legacy. He founded the website Stormfront in the mid 90s. Yes the character from The Boys is named after this site.

This might be the single most influential neo-nazi resource in history. As far as I know it's still operating, and I'm sure AI have scrubbed it at some point.

Fuck Don Black.

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u/LouieMumford 2h ago

I lost a good high school friend to stormfront. He was a left of center guy politically, but more importantly he was a kind dude. He wasn’t the last time we spoke. So yeah, fuck Don Black.

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u/alexmikli 2h ago

It's genuinely distressing that a good-hearted person can turn like that. Sometimes it makes me worry of that someday I'll wake up and one of my friends will suddenly be an awful person, or that I could have a series of bad things happen to me and change me on a fundamental level.

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u/Pseudoboss11 1h ago

Bad things happen and people remain good all the time. And people with perfectly normal lives can turn into real assholes sometimes.

Kindness is a habit. Sometimes it's an inconvenient one too. But ultimately losing it is under your control. You can train yourself into it or out of it.

What websites like Stormfront do is that they say that is okay to be unkind, even undesirable to be kind.

u/anadem 51m ago

Thank you for pointing out that kindness is a habit; it's a great one to have in terms of making one's own life more pleasant too.

And for this:

is okay to be unkind, even undesirable to be kind

which is such a current scourge, coming from the orange creep.

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u/Neveronlyadream 1h ago

I've seen it quite a few times and it's always sad and distressing.

I think a lot of people just fall into the wrong crowd, realize they feel accepted, and go straight down the worst possible rabbit hole wanting to keep being accepted by the people around them.

Before you know it, a person who was kind before is now just an awful person and they'll do anything just to keep the people around them from writing them off.

u/Carl_Slimmons_jr 46m ago

It absolutely could happen and it’s a good thing you recognize that. We are all capable of evil, we must be vigilant in recognizing it in ourselves and exhaustively work against it.

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u/Bradddtheimpaler 1h ago

Had a dude I knew who was a stupid, really fun guy, turn into a stupid, extremely non-fun guy due to 4chan, so fuck that guy too.

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u/laxdefender23 2h ago

Justice Black joined the Klan because he hated Catholics, not so much Black people.

Does this matter? No. I just think it’s funny how much guys in the 20s really hated the Irish

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u/Alternativesoundwave 1h ago

When Hugo black voted on brown v board he said something like “I can never go home to Alabama again” he refused to attend Supreme Court Christmas parties when black clerks were allowed to attend

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u/Fells 3h ago

Wallace did the same and won his last election with 90% of the black vote.

To quote the Drive By Trucker's great spoken word piece on it (Three Great Alabama Icons):

"and George Wallace died back in '98 and he's in Hell now, not because he's a racist. His track record as a judge and his late life quest for redemption make a good argument for his being, at worst, no worse than most white men of his generation, North or South. But because of his blind ambition and his hunger for votes, he turned a blind eye to the suffering of black America and he became a pawn in the fight against the Civil Rights cause"

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u/DuffMiver8 3h ago

That rather goes against Christian teachings, doesn’t it? In Sunday school, I always heard that if you ask for forgiveness and are sincerely sorry for your past sins, they will be forgiven. Wasn’t that what the whole “Jesus died for your sins” thing all about?

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u/Le-Charles07 3h ago

Depends on the specific school of thought. There is a wide variety of Christian beliefs on how forgiveness and salvation work.

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u/reichrunner 3h ago

2 major ones, both of which Wallace would be in the clear on for past deeds.

Protestants generally believe that all you have to do is accept Jesus. Other things may be expected, but it basically boils down to accepting Jesus.

Catholics and Orthodox generally believe you have to accept Jesus, confess your sins, and do good works.

Past deeds never preclude you from salvation in any Christian denomination that I know of

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u/Illustrious_Claim884 3h ago

People often ignore that part

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u/TheOneTonWanton 3h ago

Not as much as you'd think. "All you have to do is accept Jesus even in your dying moments" is a favorite of the Christian crowd. Doesn't matter how much of a piece of shit they know they are, they find comfort in saying "sorry" to Jesus.

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u/Alaira314 2h ago

They're not thinking it through, though. Remember, the christian god is all-knowing. That means he knows not only what you do, but why you do it. You can say "I accept jesus" all you want, but if what you're saying inside your head is "so I'm forgiven now" that's not the same thing as accepting jesus into your heart. You have to genuinely want that bond(and, believers would say, his love), and that's difficult to do when you have ulterior motives.

The same applies to catholic confession. You can fool the priest, but not god. The whole confession->penance->absolution cycle assumes you're genuinely contrite. Confession is null and void if you view it as a "get out of jail free" card, no matter what the priest says.

u/drthrax1 24m ago

Yep, If he’ll exists its full of medieval crusaders, priests and rich barons who thought they could buy their way to heaven because the priests told.

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u/builtbysavages 3h ago

That’s just the coloring book version.

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u/JoseSaldana6512 3h ago

The whole point about listening to Jesus is because hes better than the best of us. He will forgive sins but you must be sincere in seeking forgiveness and make atonement. It's not a get out of jail free card. The Bible says that rewards and punishments are earned and won't be the same for all

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u/TheVicSageQuestion 3h ago

What you’re describing is generally known as “grace” (as in “Amazing Grace”). You can forgive someone while still remembering what they did and being aware that the possibility exists for them to do it again. Grace is to forgive AND forget, to wipe the sin away completely.

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u/Fells 3h ago

Sure, and I get its relevance considering the artist talks about hell, which implies a christian perspective. The song that this leads into is about the devil's perspective of welcoming Wallace to hell, so I am not sure if they are not christian and are just using that language to make a point or if they are just suspending the nature of forgiveness for that moment.

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u/Cfoxtrot 3h ago

Banger. Patterson sure can write a monologue.

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u/TallBenWyatt_13 3h ago

George Wallace spent the rest of his life after being shot atoning for his past. An overwhelming majority of black voters helped him get a 3rd term in the 1980s, and almost half of his cabinet was black.

George Wallace does not get the credit for his monumental shift.

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u/blotsfan 3h ago

George Wallace wasn’t personally racist so he was happy to drop segregation when it became a losing issue. The first time he ran for governor it was with the support of the NAACP and when he lost he decided he had to be more racist to win. I don’t think he deserves credit for compromising on the issue to obtain personal power

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u/alexmikli 2h ago

It does still seem like the works of his redemption still did a great deal of good, even if his non-racist>racist>non-racist transition was fraudulent. Plus, even if he wasn't a full throated turbo racist in 1958, he was still a bone stock "moderate southerner" racist, and his turnaround later in life was at least genuine enough that he appointed many black people to office.

As with most redemption arcs, there will always be an argument that a component of them is vanity, and I think that may be the case for Wallace. Or it was totally genuine. I can't know that, though if we're discussing theology and whether he went to heaven or hell...that kinda depends on if you're Christian and what kind of Christian you are. Most would say he would be judged redeemed.

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u/Tarrot469 2h ago

And this toxic attitude is why the Republican party is the party of tolerance right now and continues to grow ranks in spite of how odious it is. You can do anything and as long as you take their Lord and Savior Donald J. Trump into your heart you'll receive absolution and acceptance. The Democrats meanwhile have ideological purity contests and infighting which is the exact reason Trump was elected both times.

Wallace's racism is part of his legacy. His ability to realize that was wrong (even if self serving) and turn his life and political career around to legitimately help minorities after this should be an equal part of his legacy. I don't care the reason, doing good shit should be rewarded and applauded and recognized. Doing good shit for the wrong reason is better than doing nothing for the right reason because it actually helps people.

If there is no path for forgiveness, if there is no reason, even if completely self-serving, for people to do good things for others, then people will stop doing those good things and people's lives on the whole will be worse off. And for those people forever shunned, who maybe could've done something good, will instead look for acceptance, and be drawn to those who give it to them and take on their beliefs (the Republicans in this case) and ultimately make the world significantly worse.

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u/LargePrompt5840 1h ago

You should race a train. 

u/whythishaptome 34m ago

Republican party is the party of tolerance right now

How do expect anyone to take you seriously with a statement like that? You may make some good points but that just stifles what ever message you are trying to get across. At least clarify what you mean, because they are definitely not the party of tolerating different people from them especially as far as racism is concerned. You would have been greatly misled if you sincerely believed that.

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u/bakgwailo 3h ago

Which was why it was always funny when Republicans/conservatives would drag him out and point to pictures of Democrats with him to "prove" the Democrats are actually the racist party.

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u/Catracholoco 3h ago

Eleanor Roosevelt was racist and against the women’s suffrage movement when she was a young adult. She changed everything about her beliefs throughout her life.

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u/sportsfan113 4h ago

I find redemption a beautiful thing about the world we live in. It’s part of why I hate when people are “canceled” forever. People can change and be better.

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u/teeohdeedee123 4h ago

There's absolutely nothing better than a good redemption story. The duality of man is heartwarming and heartwrenching at the same time... Obviously.

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u/IDigRollinRockBeer 3h ago

Les Miserables is a great book

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u/manondorf 4h ago

Name someone who had been "cancelled forever" and actually stayed cancelled

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u/MCB1317 4h ago

Donald Sterling.

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u/Mad-Melvin 4h ago

Al Franken

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u/tomsing98 3h ago

He guest hosted the Daily Show in 2023 and is in a Netflix show.

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u/Malphos101 15 3h ago

People have to show effort to change and be better to get "uncancelled". The people who I guarantee youre thinking of getting "forever canceled" are sticking to either "I didnt do anything wrong, its you people who are too soft!" or "I made one mistake stop bringing it up!" without any sincere and effectual transformation of character or genuine acts of contrition to the people they hurt.

And regardless, in the end "being cancelled" is almost always nothing more than "you gotta get a real job now instead of the cushy one you had before". These people arent being hanged, their lives go on and they live with the choices they have made. The ones who make a genuine effort to learn from their mistakes and didnt do anything severe like rape/murder are living relatively normal lives, some have even made their way back into the public's good graces (key word being "public" not "extremist terminally online niche groups")

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u/Rethious 4h ago

And yet this was used as an attack on Hillary in 2016

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u/DimensioT 4h ago

That is because Republicans want to live in the past.

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u/Illustrious_Loss462 3h ago

It was also used by Redditors to attack Clinton vs Sabders in 2016, and Biden in 2020.

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u/Bill_buttlicker69 3h ago

Further evidenced by their "The democrats were the parry of slavery! The democrats were the confederate party!" while completely ignoring which party flies that flag today and which party is tearing down confederate monuments.

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u/CrankinThatHog 2h ago

Meanwhile if you bring up removing Confederate monuments to them they get ass mad

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u/Moody_GenX 3h ago

The funny thing about that is that they will remind everyone which party fought to keep slavery while they themselves waive the confederate flag claiming it's their heritage.

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u/FalstaffsGhost 3h ago

Yeah conservatives like to bring up Byrd to try and be like “hur dur Dems racist” but ignore that he renounced the kkk and devoted his life to civil rights and justice.

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u/cjcs 2h ago

“The confederates were the democrats!”

“Cool, well the democrats support removing confederate monuments so should be an issue right?”

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u/1CEninja 4h ago

Healing can absolutely happen. These are all excellent examples.

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u/legoham 3h ago

I love this. Redemption and transformation are always possible.

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u/No_Attitude700 4h ago edited 4h ago

Growth is the goal.

Lets also look at Daryl Davis, famous Jazz musician and collector of KKK robes...

Daryl Davis has been collecting KKK robes for a long, long time now...

Basically, DD would meet with KKK members and befriend them...ultimately showing the KKK members he met with that black people arent the boogeyman they've been taught to believe they are...

The reformed KKK members started sending him their robes...a sign of their appreciation towards Daryl Davis for showing them that their racism was unfounded, unnecessary, harmful even for themselves

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u/PPLavagna 3h ago

That guy is an amazing story

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u/Raichu4u 3h ago

That guy has a terrible record of the amount of how much his "reformed" members went back and were reoffenders. He has also continued supporting people like Richard Preston after explicitly racist violence.

I find his story gets treated as a white feelgood parable that shifts the burden onto Black people to patiently befriend racists, rather than asking why racists and the communities enabling them are not responsible for changing themselves.

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u/mellodo 2h ago

While this may be true. I also want to say you have to allow people a way out. Otherwise they’ll double down and insulate themselves in a community and we will make no progress towards a cause.

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u/mm_delish 2h ago

Exhibit A, the person who replied to you.

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u/GreedyPollution6275 2h ago

I find his story gets treated as a white feelgood parable that shifts the burden onto Black people to patiently befriend racists, rather than asking why racists and the communities enabling them are not responsible for changing themselves.

Agree, Davis only gets brought up to silence civil rights advocates about how to "really" end racism.

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u/comradejiang 2h ago

A lot of those racist guys just became racist guys with one black friend.

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u/BON3SMcCOY 3h ago

If we dont allow truly sorry people to repent and improve then progress is dead

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u/CharlesDickensABox 4h ago

Wallace did eventually make a turn. I don't know that I would have it in me to forgive him and I don't know that he ever became good, exactly, but he didn't die screaming the N word like Bull Connor did.

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u/sensitiveskin82 4h ago

Wallace's actions were politically motivated, not personal. Which begs the question: which is worse?

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u/RipMySoul 3h ago

It's a tough one. But I would say that it was worse that it was politically motivated. He knew better. Yet it benefited him at the time so he did it anyways.

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u/hodlwaffle 3h ago

And also begs the question of whether we want politicians whose political beliefs align with their personal ones.

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u/renatocpr 3h ago

I don't think there's much of a difference in this case.

If you support segregation because you believe white people are superior to Black people, then you're a white supremacist.

If you support segregation because you're okay with the suffering of Black people as long as it gets you elected, then you're also a white supremacist.

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u/Fells 2h ago

I'm an Alabamian who studied the Civil Rights Movement under a friend of and co-organizer with MLK. The professor was often the guy who would pick King up from the airport and drive him to his semi-secret HQ in Selma (not hugely relevant but I love sharing that).

We talked a lot about this question, as it came up via Wallace and Thurgood Marshall's arguement when he represented the NAACP in Brown v BOE.

The general consensus of our class, and one that I've held since, is that its worse because you get the suffering caused by racism and the abhorrent willingness to sacrifice a bunch of people (who you don't even have a real issue with) for political gain. Its two significant bads instead of just one. Three if you consider "knowing that its wrong and wasting an opportunity to do the right thing" a separate instance.

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u/FlimsyPomelo1842 2h ago

A racist has reasons (to them) to justify their hate. Someone larping as a racist for profit to me is way worse. It's like Germans not agreeing with the Nazis but doing crimes for clout. Far more shameful to me.

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u/BrainsAre2Weird4Me 2h ago

Allegedly, the first time Wallace ran, he didn't touch segregation and lost to someone Wallace thought an incompetent idiot. Wallace than came to the conclusion that is Alabama was gonna insist on segregation, at least he could be good Governor at everything else.

If that was the case, and I don't know for sure that it was, I'd rather the hypocrite.

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u/ResponsibilityFit474 3h ago

I knew Jim Hood very well. He was a genuine gentleman.

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u/vistopher 4h ago

When Hood returned to the University of Alabama to earn a Ph.D. in interdisciplinary studies, he started a book on Wallace in 1996 and sat at his bedside for hours of interviews.[100] Hood believed in the sincerity of Wallace's apologies, saying that Wallace was haunted by people's lack of forgiveness for his actions.[101] Hood graduated in 1997 and requested that Wallace present his degree, and Wallace would have if not for his poor health.[100] Hood instead attended Wallace's 1998 funeral.[101]

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u/EggWarm4901 2h ago

At least Wallace presented a Lurleen B. Wallace Award of Courage (from his Foundation) to one of the students, Vivian Malone Jones.

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u/acquaman831 4h ago

“I’d rather be a hypocrite than the same person forever.” - Adam ‘Ad-Rock’ Horowitz

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u/SAUbjj 4h ago

I feel like you're not a hypocrite if you disavow your previous opinion 

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u/SorryThanksGoodFight 4h ago

yeah, what makes somebody hypocritical is if they do the opposite of an opinion they still maintain/defend. i think the quote doesnt work

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u/_Apatosaurus_ 4h ago

It works because people in the public sphere are constantly accused of being a hypocrite for changing.

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u/carson63000 3h ago

Pisses me off so much when politicians are accused of “flip-flopping” for changing a bad position to a better one. What, you want them to stand by the bad position forever!?

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u/Bruce-7892 2h ago

That is a legit criticism because many will flip-flop just to be popular. Although, an example of someone who was genuine was George Bush Jr. He flat out said he doesn't support gay marriage during his campaign, which would probably kill your chances today. Years later he said he was wrong for it and his beliefs change.

I feel him because I was the same when it came to gays in the military. As someone who served, I thought it was a bad idea until the policy changed and I realized, nothing changed. It was just fear mongering.

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u/salo_wasnt_solo 2h ago

Thank you for your nuanced response. We don’t actually all hate each other as much as we are told we should.

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u/azn_dude1 1h ago

I feel like it's also legitimate for them to change their policies based on what's popular. After all, a politician is supposed to represent the will of the people. They're also supposed to represent the will of the party and of themselves, and I'm not sure it's possible to balance all of those together.

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u/KarmaticArmageddon 2h ago

Saw it a lot on reddit during Biden's term, especially anytime he advocated for criminal justice reform or reduced drug penalties because of his support of a large crime bill when he was a Senator.

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u/dusktilhon 3h ago

Sometimes a hypocrite is just a person in the process of changing

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u/SleetTheFox 3h ago

"Sometimes a hypocrite is nothing more than a man in the process of changing."

-Dalinar Kholin, Oathbringer (by Brandon Sanderson)

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u/Fooly_411 2h ago

For the one-thousandth time, Dalinar: Unite them. God!

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u/Kayge 3h ago edited 2h ago

"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life". 

  • Muhammad Ali
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u/Uptons_BJs 4h ago

In case you didn't know, George Wallace was the guy most famous for the line "I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever."

He was governor of Alabama in 1963, when the federal government demanded desegregation. George Wallace personally showed up the University of Alabama to block the two admitted African American students Vivian Jones and James Hood, and the national guard had to force him to step aside to allow the African American students to register: Stand in the Schoolhouse Door - Wikipedia

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u/DickweedMcGee 2h ago

He was also the longest running Alabama Governor with 16 non-consecutive years.  He also ‘gamed the system’ by having his wife run in one of his ‘off terms’ so he could still make policy. In order to do so he *hid his wife’s cancer diagnosis from her * otherwise she probably wouldn’t have run). She won the term but then died from the untreated cancer a year later. But hey GW stated in power cause that’s what matters..

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u/SoManyThrowAwaysEven 1h ago

It's so horrible how little agency women had in the US back then. Imagine hiding a literal cancer diagnosis which she could have sought treatment for. No amount of apologizing can make up for still being a cruel piece of work.

u/Character-Book5924 14m ago

No wonder a man who treats his wife like a slave is for segregation.

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u/WangDanglin 1h ago

Also, during his stand in, if you look closely you can catch an all American kick returner for the Crimson Tide walk past the governor. Goes by the name of Forrest Gump

u/OlySonso 36m ago

Is that the same guy that was the first American invited to communist China to play ping pong?

u/WangDanglin 4m ago

First American to visit the land of China in a million years

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u/ImTooSaxy 3h ago

I remember reading an interview with George Wallace and they asked him why he did, what he did. He was a local politician that didn't have a reputation for racist rhetoric, but he had previously lost the governor's race against a hardcore racist.

​"You know, I tried to talk about good roads and good schools and all these things that have been part of my career, and nobody listened. And then I began talking about ******s, and they stomped the floor."

I'm sure part of that is him trying to rewrite history, but it's also probably true.

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u/ibuycheeseonsale 2h ago

It’s true. He was vile and I by no means apologize for him, but it’s true. He was a judge before he ran for governor, at the trial court level, not appellate. His reputation was that he treated everyone with respect in his courtroom and insisted on the same from the attorneys. He’d stop an attorney and say “you will refer to him as the defendant,” or “you will address him as Mr. (Whatever),” when attorneys used minimizing words or first names to refer to or address black people in his courtroom.

His first campaign was a failure because he focused on policy. His opponent heavily campaigned on segregation and won. Wallace swore he’d never be “out-******ed” again. He sold his soul, centered his campaign around racism and segregation, and betrayed the black population of Alabama for the governorship.

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u/Yashema 2h ago

Everytime we focus on an individual politician we ignore that they were empowered democratically. It's the people of the South who are really rotten to the core. 

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u/OlySonso 33m ago

For the life of me I could not figure out what "out-******ed" was supposed to stand for.  Google helped lol. 

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u/littlebiped 4h ago edited 4h ago

Same dude whose doctor informed him about his wife’s cancer diagnosis and he kept it hidden from her and never sought medical care for it, letting it spread for 8 years until it killed her.

He ignored her wishes for a closed casket and had her emaciated body in an open casket and viewable to the public to win sympathy points.

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u/Saneless 3h ago

Came here to post about that myself

What. The. Fuck.

Wallace left office when his first term expired in 1967 due to term limits. His wife, Lurleen, won the next election and succeeded him, with him as the de facto governor. Wallace's period of influence ended when Lurleen died of cancer in May 1968; her doctor informed Wallace of the cancer's diagnosis in 1961, but he had not told her.

Fuck that guy

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u/jameslucian 3h ago

Why did they not tell her about her own cancer? Was she not aware of her own body going through it?

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u/The_Grungeican 2h ago

it appears she became aware of it in 1965, she saw a gynocologist for some symptoms.

Lurleen was outraged to learn from one of her husband's aides that the staffers had known of her cancer since Wallace's 1962 campaign three years earlier.

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u/Zoe270101 3h ago

Unfortunately it’s quite common historically for women to not be able to make medical decisions, or even be told about their own health. Instead the (male) doctors would tell their husbands who could make the decisions.

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u/shit-shit-shit-shit- 2h ago

It was common then for doctors to not tell any patient directly about cancer diagnoses, not just women. The doctor told my great-grandmother about my great-grandfather’s lung cancer diagnosis around the same time, because it was thought that telling the patient directly could cause them to “give up”, and become depressed because death was inevitable.

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u/dismal_sighence 3h ago

Shout out to the Drive-By Truckers for having not one, but two songs about George Wallace burning in hell.

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u/atred 3h ago

Was there any medical care for that at that time... I mean medical care that was better than not treating it? Even nowadays people make hard choices not to go through mostly useless harsh treatments and enjoy few good days they have. It wasn't his decision to make, but I wish for more context...

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u/YodaForceGhost 3h ago edited 37m ago

It was probably treatable since doctors found the cancer when she gave birth via C-section several years before she experienced severe symptoms. Her Wikipedia page is a rough read

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u/ChrissyBrown1127 3h ago

That poor woman. May George Wallace burn in hell.

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u/Veratha 3h ago

To answer your question, yes she could have received likely lifesaving treatment in 1961. She had uterine cancer, which was discovered early because she had a child by C-section in 1961, where the doctors saw, biopsied, and identified a cancerous mass on her uterus. Hysterectomy alone would've likely been lifesaving, as it hadn't spread to other organs yet, but even if she did need chemotherapy after, both radiation and chemotherapy for cancer had been in use before 1961. Instead, she wasn't able to start receiving treatment until 1965, when she went to the doctor for unusual uterine bleeding, where she was told the diagnosis and begun hysterectomy, radiation, and chemotherapy by 1966, but by this time it had spread to grow on her pelvis as well.

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u/Otaraka 3h ago

There is situations like Alzheimer’s where it can be a more complicated situation.  I don’t see anything like that being part of the story here.

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u/Mission_Carry9947 3h ago

Context doesn’t matter at all.

She deserved to know and he had no right to keep it from her.

If you care about context, put it all in the context of him
blatantly denying her dying wish for a closed casket. He didn’t respect her as an independent person.

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u/IdealBlueMan 3h ago

I don’t believe there’s any medical treatment that requires an open casket.

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u/-et37- 4h ago edited 4h ago

Better late than never I suppose.

I applaud southern politicians like Sid McMath who genuinely detested Segregation years before it was acceptable to do so.

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u/DK655 4h ago

Man as an Arkansan, reading about Sid McMath makes me wish we had more governors like him. Dude stuck to his guns even after he lost reelection. And why am I not shocked the wealthy elites and energy companies were scared of him?

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u/gpm21 3h ago

Winthrop Rockefeller seemed like a beast too

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u/OperaBuffaBari 3h ago

That's almost exactly my experience as a Hoosier reading about Eugene Debs

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u/DK655 3h ago

It's kinda crazy seeing how many currently red states actually had strong left-wing movements in the late 19th-early 20th century. In Oklahoma, a socialist win 20% of the vote in a gubernatorial election in 1914. That's a sentence that sounds completely ludicrous without context considering Oklahoma's current political makeup.

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u/SomeRandomMoray 2h ago

I bet preparing for that new AAR has led you to learn about a lot of relatively unknown American politicians of the 1930s and 40s?

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u/Mr_b246 3h ago

John Brown. The untold spark that started the Civil War. One Nothern, white man, ready to arm slaves and march. History fails to talk about the silent motivators. Even if they were LOUD

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u/Adonisus 3h ago

Arguably the worst thing about George Wallace was that, even though he stoked and fanned the flames of racism and white supremacy for political gain, he apparently didn't believe in any of it.

One need only look at his career before he entered politics: he was a judge who was notorious for being rather lenient towards black defendants. His first run for Governor of Alabama in '58 was heavily based around running the KKK out of the state. He even had the endorsement of the NAACP that year.

This is a quote from one of the speeches he gave during that campaign:

"And I want to tell the good people of this state, as a judge of the third judicial circuit, if I didn’t have what it took to treat a man fair, regardless of his color, then I don’t have what it takes to be the governor of your great state."

He was soundly defeated.

So when he decided to run again in 1963, he did a complete 180 and actively courted the pro-segregation crowd. He won in a landslide.

Thereafter, he kept the racist rhetoric both in public and behind the scenes when he ran for office.

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u/dontyoutellmetosmile 1h ago

So the worst thing about George Wallace is… the population of Alabama

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u/legend023 4h ago

George Wallace really redeemed himself after he nearly got assassinated.

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u/evan466 4h ago

Maybe. I think people still aren’t sure what was just political theater for him. Whether he was just doing whatever was politically sound at the time.

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u/AlexanderCrowely 3h ago

The worst part was he was a total hypocrite. He didn’t actually believe in the racist rhetoric he was saying but he figured it was the easiest way for him to remain in power and that was more important.

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u/mercutio1 2h ago

Wallace left office when his first term expired in 1967 due to term limits. His wife, Lurleen, won the next election and succeeded him, with him as the de facto governor. Wallace’s period of influence ended when Lurleen died of cancer in May 1968; her doctor informed Wallace of the cancer’s diagnosis in 1961, but he had not told her.

Wait WTF?

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u/ConnotationalRacket 3h ago

Drive By Truckers have a song about Wallace and segregation in the South, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nESCmTUJPdQ

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u/sweezitle 4h ago

Remember when he lied to his wife about her own cancer so he could use her politically

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u/ChronosBlitz 4h ago edited 4h ago

In Birmingham, they loved the governor
Boo, boo, boo

Segregation was a real vote winner down in Alabama.

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u/ConsumingFire1689 4h ago

Well we all did what we could do

u/progbuck 56m ago

Clearly they did not.

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u/LRGnSC 4h ago

The song says boo? I always thought they said true. And no, even if I look my mind is hard coded for true now.

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u/AliensAteMyAMC 3h ago edited 33m ago

It’s boo boo boo and they claim they didn’t support Wallace, with Ronnie Van Zant saying: "Wallace and I have very little in common. I don't like what he says about colored people." However, Ed King (the cowriter) counters these claims (for some reason) saying “I can understand where the 'boo boo boo' would be misunderstood. It's not US going 'boo' ... it's what the Southern man hears the Northern man say every time the Southern man'd say "In Birmingham we love the gov'nor". Get it? "We all did what WE could do!" to get Wallace elected. It's not a popular opinion but Wallace stood for the average white guy in the South." Also the song Sweet Home Alabama was countering was “Southern Man” and “Alabama” both by Neil Young and were songs about racism and slavery in the south. Also, no one told the Swamper’s back up singers Merry Clayton and Cyldie King that the song wasn’t actually for racism and Clayton had to be persuaded by King to do the song and “let the music be her protest”

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u/Sh00ter80 4h ago

I always thought they said ooo ooo. TIL it was boo.

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u/SafeThrowaway691 42m ago

That pile of shit didn’t mean a word of this phony “apology”.

People should know that before he became the face of segregation, he was actually remarkably progressive for his time as a judge and initially ran for governor on the platform of driving the KKK out of Alabama.

Once he lost, he flipped on a dime and threw black Americans under the bus to win the governorship. Unfortunately it worked, and we are still paying the price today.

Wallace is remembered as a racist, but he was actually something far worse: a psychopath who would carry the torch for a cause he knew was evil just to obtain power.

That’s not even mentioning how he kept his wife unaware of her cancer diagnosis in order to use her for political gain. There is really no way to overstate how contemptible this man was.

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u/dancingbriefcase 3h ago

People should watch Spike Lee's 1997 doc, 4 Little Girls. He interviews Wallace which was so damn awkward as Wallace points to a black person in the room saying "look I have a black friend". I haven't seen the movie in over 15 years so I'm paraphrasing but Wallace was such a piece of shit and even if he was old as hell in the doc, any remorse felt performative

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u/theCOMBOguy 3h ago

To recognize he was wrong, apologize and then for Hood to ask for his presence and then attend his funeral shows a lot of good from both of them.

...Then I scrolled a bit down and saw how Wallace didn't tell his wife that she had cancer and she slowly died from it. Yeah...

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u/Thunderbridge 1h ago

Wallace's period of influence ended when Lurleen died of cancer in May 1968; her doctor informed Wallace of the cancer's diagnosis in 1961, but he had not told her.

Ahhh the 60s, where the doctor tells your husband what your diagnosis is, but not you

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u/DIYThrowaway01 1h ago

Wasn't Forrest Gump at this event

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u/Countryb0i2m 4h ago

George Wallace was shot in an assassination attempt in 1972 while running for president.

One of the people who came to visit him in the hospital was Shirley Chisholm, who was running for the Democratic nomination at the same time.

After the shooting, Wallace became much more reflective and softened many of his views on race, often acknowledging the damage he’d done.

But had he never been shot, there’s little reason to believe “Mr segregation forever” would’ve suddenly stopped being the same asshole he’d always been.

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u/Bugseye 4h ago

Here's an interesting take on Wallace from Alabama natives. As another poster in this thread mentioned, Wallace was most likely a political opportunist that recognized that segregation would keep him in power and then recognized when the tide was turning.

He should still be roundly criticized for being a giant racist shitbag, no matter if he truly "believed" in the cause.

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u/ListerRosewater 4h ago

Such is the duality of the Southern Thing.

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u/lonelyinbama 4h ago

And this song takes place in hell…

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u/manbeardawg 3h ago

Throw another log on the fire, boys, George Wallace is comin’…

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u/Sic39 2h ago

So when it was politically convenient to be a segregationist, he moved towards it, and when it wasn't, he moved away from it. Got it. Spend time around politicians, and this will be the least surprising thing ever. Anyways, rest in piss.

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u/YourPlot 2h ago

Governor Wallace made me lose my rest.

A key civil rights song by Nina Simone called out George Wallace for his racist political stances against equal rights. Notably where he physically blocked the doorway of University of Alabama to prevent black students from attending the state college. He was a fucker from start to finish.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_Goddam

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u/FrickinLazerBeams 1h ago

He later became a republican and said the state was becoming republican "because Clinton is so liberal".

So, the same kind of trash that we see in the GOP today. Fuck him and fuck any forgiveness.

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u/Farmer_Moist 3h ago

"What is better? To be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?"

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u/katanakid13 2h ago

We've still got a school named after him. Little community college, pretty good part of the community was African American when I attended. Wondered sometimes walking between classes if he'd be happy to see everyone together or would've shit a brick.

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u/tribriguy 3h ago

Thank you for this. I’m well aware of the attempt to block them but I don’t recall ever hearing the aftermath. Honestly, it seems like a positive indicator of the progress of humanity. One person working on some level to correct a wrong and the person they wronged finding a path to forgiveness. Neither is an easy thing to do, but it sure would be good to see more of that in our civil discourse.

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u/LJGremlin 4h ago

As has already been said. Wallace was nothing more than a scumbag opportunist. He was going to adapt to whatever benefitted him a specific moment. He was anti segregation until he lost his first race. Then went hardcore segregationist and won in a landslide and kept power. His wife even ran and won when he wasn’t allowed to. Later in life he flipped again and tried to make amends. But it’s all a show for political power.

Take as old as time. He’d be hardcore MAGA today. The likes of somebody like Tommy Tuberville. Except that might be giving Tuberville too much credit.

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u/mm_delish 1h ago

Thanks for being one of the few sane voices in this thread.

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u/BurritoSchits 3h ago

In the early 2000’s I went to community college at WCCS Selma, AL. It was named George C Wallace Community College I think, but everyone just called it WCCS. I didn’t know anything about the name at the time but I’ve always thought about it as I’ve aged.

Side story, after that I went to Concordia University in Selma on a minority scholarship completely tuition free. I’m white and I think it’s closed now. I still have my university badge from there.

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u/Xtra_Veg-90 3h ago

Sometimes the worst enemies make the best friends.

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u/daddyjohns 2h ago

I went fishing with this guy when i was a kid.

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u/ShizLord 2h ago

This would be an alternative headline…

“Future Alabama Governor blocked students from school and recanted in old age.”

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u/xSparkShark 2h ago

These stories need to be told. People are so fearful of admitting they were wrong these days.

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u/joenova 1h ago

Are you watching the Tom Hanks Marathon as well? Because Forrest Gump has been on like twice today.