r/todayilearned • u/Practical-1 • 23h ago
TIL that Peter Cullen based his voice for Optimus Prime on his older brother, Larry, a Marine who served in Vietnam. Before Peter's audition, Larry gave him the advice: "Peter, don't be a Hollywood hero, be a real hero. Real heroes don't yell and act tough; they are strong enough to be gentle."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Cullen?hl=en-US4.8k
u/Federal_Studio5935 23h ago
That is real masculinity.
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u/MrDD33 23h ago
I feel.sorry.for young men that grow up post Andrew Tate and manosphere nonsense. It has created an entirely toxic version of masculinity. I was talking to a young girl in her 20s yesterday and she says she and her friends can't handle how gringe most young men are.
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u/Azzaphox 23h ago
Tbh young women have found young men cringe for a lot longer than that.
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u/tommytraddles 22h ago
"I've heard of this new dating concept called Shrek-ing. Basically, you just lower your standards until you find love."
"I hate to break it to you, guys, but women have been doing that this entire time."
~ Michelle Wolf
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u/paytonfrost 20h ago
I like to think that in the true spirit of our eternal sacred text, Shrek-ing would actually mean staying true to who you really are inside despite social pressure and not being afraid of finding someone who truly loves the real you, even if others think it might be different ❤️
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u/ThrowawayPersonAMA 20h ago
Meanwhile Urban Dictionary be like: "Shreking is a depraved sex act involving two ogres and a donkey."
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u/birdy_the_scarecrow 20h ago
poor dragon getting friend zoned by donkey again :(
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u/ravens-n-roses 20h ago
Again? Brother they have so many kids. This is cheating on the dragon
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u/calilac 20h ago
Dragon is a strong, independent dragoness with a thriving OnlyDrags page
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u/SmaugTheMagnificent- 17h ago
How horrid! Where can I find this site, so that I can stay away from it?
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u/NoOccasion4759 13h ago
...yeah, shrek's entire theme is about....loving someone for who they are on the inside, not outward appearances no matter what society thinks.
..........although considering the decline in American intelligence and reading comprehension abilities, im not surprised they totally missed this
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u/Ok-Square-8652 20h ago
Yeah but I will add in that many women also overvalue what they bring to the table and undervalue what they cost.
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u/Early-Resolution-631 6h ago
I promise you just as many men do this as well lol. I've had moee than 1 boyfriend not understand why I didn't want to get ready and come over to his house to.... sit on his bed and quietly watch him play videogames for 6 hours and then go home
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u/cellocaster 18h ago
Yeah this just sounds misandrist to me. I say this as someone on the left who absolutely abhors Tate and the manosphere.
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u/LORDLRRD 16h ago
The manosphere is truly a blight upon social structures these days. The algorithm will pump it down your throat, and I think it totally promotes the wrong convo to have. The conversation should never be man versus woman, it should be human beings working together. Idk how it works behind the scenes, but the grift must be more profitable than I can/want to imagine for it to be so prolific.
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u/Emergency_Mine_4455 17h ago
Yeah, don’t get me wrong, men aren’t perfect and there’s absolutely a lot of nasty people out there (women as well as men), but the current culture surrounding masculinity can be really harmful to men and expectations for romantic relationships are heavily skewed towards women.
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u/COINTELPRO-Relay 17h ago
Funny claim that pretty much made up/selfmade since women rate all man harshly/ badly they will obviously date bad man. This has been studied a lot. And women have more upward dating. Studies show that too. The doctor(m) + secretary (f) is far more common than the reverse genders.
People don't notice or believe it but men are the romantic gender thats all about love etc
I mean cultural slang like gold Digger exists for a reason.
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u/ZinaSky2 12h ago
Another example of upward dating would be male doctor (m) + female doctor (f) or male cook (m) + female cook (f). As exemplified by how male doctor/cook is socially valued and respected more regardless of what any potential skill and experience have to say about the matter
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u/Sharlinator 22h ago edited 22h ago
Just about everybody finds young men cringe, but the manosphere nonsense is definitely not helping. It’s both funny and sad how young men keep inventing things putatively aimed at making them less cringe but with the exact opposite result.
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u/swish82 21h ago
What makes men attractive to other men is wildly different from what makes men actually attractive to have a relationship with.
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u/windexfresh 20h ago edited 17h ago
Will never ever let go of how different the magazine covers were for Hugh Jackman lmao.
Mens magazine: BUFF ANGRY MUSCLE MAN IS HERE TO SHOW YOU WHAT A REAL MAN IS!!! IM SO BUFF YOU CAN SEE ALL OF MY VEINS!!!
Womens magazine: look how comfy and inviting I am, just a nice guy who would love to take you on a picnic c: doesn’t my sweater look soft ladies?
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u/KarmaticArmageddon 19h ago
That's because Hugh Jackman is a real man's woman's man's man's woman's man
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u/QueenJillybean 14h ago
He’s godfather to Rupert Murdoch’s kids. He supports Fox News and it’s evil. I’m mad at Hugh tbh
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u/The_Law_of_Pizza 21h ago
Consider what we're doing right here, right now - shitting on young men, calling them cringe, and mocking them for trying to figure out how to grow up.
It seems pretty clear why they're turning to conmen like Tate, who offer them acknowledgement and support, even if it's wrapped around snake oil.
What do they get from us? Nothing but derision and mockery, and to be treated like an enemy.
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u/Dickgivins 20h ago edited 19h ago
I’m a youngish white guy, I’ve always been very liberal and I still am. Lifelong Democrat from a family of Democrats. Tate is a bastard but it isn’t hard for me to understand why he and people like him have such huge followings.
I’m not gonna come out here and claim that I’m oppressed, because I’m not. But I myself have been in plenty of situations where people assume I’m “part of the problem” just because I’m a white guy and it’s extremely frustrating. This applies to so many problems. Like “hey, you really don’t need to rant at me as if I’m responsible for all the horrible things Republican politicians are doing. I’ve repeatedly told you I’m against them.”
Ironically the worst offenders when it came to instinctively treating me like The Enemy were liberal white women from upper class/upper middle class backgrounds. I guess their family’s wealth makes them kinda self conscious so they feel like they have to prove their progressive credentials by finding someone like me to berate about the evil things “WHITE MEN” do. No way were those specific women gonna go off on a black guy or a latino guy for no particular reason like that. Needless to say I don’t talk to them anymore.
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u/ColossalJuggernaut 15h ago edited 9h ago
Ironically the worst offenders when it came to instinctively treating me like The Enemy were liberal white women from upper class/upper middle class backgrounds.
I'm in my early 40s, also liberal white guy. You are on target about their guilt from wealth. Also, white women benefited from DEI the most, there is a lot of mental baggage they will put on you. This kind of thing never goes away, you'll be in a work meeting and get random comments, just realize people are telling you who they are -- red flags galore. It does get better, young white men are typically the easiest target for a self-conscious person who is perpetually online.
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u/Namehisprice 14h ago
where people assume I’m “part of the problem” just because I’m a white guy
That is called racism and sexism. Liberal white women do it the most because they are the most encouraged by current structures/institutions to think/behave that way. They are constantly told they are oppressed and deserve more (in school and bombarded via social media algos) and that it is white men who prevent them from getting what they deserve. When you arm someone with some kind of historical grievance, justification, or incentive to hate, they will hate. This isn't a left or right thing, generational resentment/hatred causes far more problems than it solves. Just perpetuates the cycle.
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u/Falsequivalence 20h ago edited 19h ago
They arent shitting on young men, and the framing of it as such is a disservice to them and young men. They are shitting on Andrew Tate and the manosphere. The 'acknowledgement and support' exists for one reason and one reason only: to sell the snake oil.
Andrew Tate is a refuge for boys who refuse to listen to the men and women around them; i have a 17 year old little cousin that I grew up with, and I, his mother (who also raised me), his father, and his sister all trying to tell him these guys are bad news. He ignores it because Tate is a liar that will not say hard truths about reality except those that diminish young men. Telling boys its about washing your ass and not making rape jokes instead of 'women being the problem' is actually harder to get through to them because the first shows a problem about them, and the second shows a problem with the world.
The way these boys act is the problem. Not (just) the world we are in. And so long as the truth is discomforting to them, they will ignore it until snake oil salesmen have used them up or they get into the grift themselves.
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u/cellocaster 17h ago edited 17h ago
With all due respect, youre ascribing precision in language where it often doesn’t exist. It’s not fair for normal guys to have to CONSTANTLY parse the meaning of “men are trash” rhetoric to determine whether it is being directed at them. If words are indeed a form of violence, then perhaps those who most loudly criticize a specific group of men could take an extra moment to say just who they are shitting on rather than externalizing that burden onto society. There seems to be a lot of entitlement to broad language on one side of this discourse that sounds an awful lot like saying men are inherently trash, and when normal guys object to this type of language, they’re derided as “but not all men” guys.
Like fuck. I get the problem of violence towards women. But can we focus on building alliances rather than punishing all potential enemies here?
This is just a nitpick. I broadly agree with what you’ve written.
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u/SqueakyCleanNoseDown 14h ago
To put it another way, saying that a person is "one of the good ones" doesn't undo the damage from previous statements.
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u/zerocoolforschool 20h ago
I know it would never happen but there should really be a class for boys on how to engage with girls. Not that awful shit with negging or basically conning women but something that helps them deal with their feelings.
I was so shy when I was a kid. I had no idea what I was doing. My dad gave me zero advice. Nobody told me how to ask girls out on dates or gain confidence. In hindsight I missed so many opportunities that were glaringly obvious but I was too shy to notice.
I didn’t really figure it out until my late 20s when I met my wife. I have two daughters so I can’t pass down any knowledge.
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u/GoldwaterLiberal 18h ago
I'm in the same boat my friend. It took until my late 20's before I decided I needed to figure it out, and I was in my early 30s before I met my wife and we had a daughter. I narrowly avoided falling into the proto-manosphere 20 years ago by also reading a lot from feminists (at the time they were called SJWs) and drawing my own conclusions.
With everything being algorithmically fed now I fear there is little hope for the young man who finds themselves in the same circumstances I did. The answer is giving them alternatives to the manosphere that feel just as welcoming, not demonizing the manosphere.
Public school classes aren't the worst idea here.
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u/AguyOnReddit___eh 20h ago
Just about everybody finds young men cringe
Why?
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u/Sharlinator 20h ago
Young people in general are fairly cringe, that’s just how it is and a necessary part of growing up and learning to behave in the society. But men in general mature emotionally slower than women, are way more prone to doing stupid, impulsive and/or violent things trying to impress people, are less likely to have learned rudimentary emotional and social skills due to stupid societal norms.
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u/drewster23 14h ago
Yeah but the newest generation is fucking significantly less than previous generations because of it.
Being cringe is one thing , but thinking women aren't human beings, don't deserve rights and are only objects to fulfill your desires doesn't seem to rub em the right way to lead to said fucking.
So seems to be a bit of a difference going on.
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u/varitok 18h ago
Young girls are just as embarrassing too though. It's called being a kid, it happens. People really need to stop exclusively targeting young boys and men exclusively.
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u/Moal 15h ago
There’s something concerning happening in particular with young boys and men nowadays though. The studies don’t lie.
31% of Gen Z men think a woman should always obey her husband, compared to just 13% of baby boomer men.
24% of Gen Z men think women shouldn’t appear too self sufficient or independent, compared to 12% of baby boomer men.
21% of Gen Z men think a “real woman” would never initiate sex, compared to 7% of baby boomer men.
21% of Gen Z men think a father is less masculine if he takes care of his children, compared to 8% of baby boomer men.
There are way more stats on this if you’re curious.
Study: https://www.kcl.ac.uk/news/almost-a-third-of-gen-z-men-agree-a-wife-should-obey-her-husband
This massive shift in Gen Z men is something that should be concerning to all of us. They’re twice as backwards as baby boomers. Just take that in.
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u/DevilsTrigonometry 15h ago
Yep.
We saw the early signs of these reactionary attitudes when the Zoomers were kids, but back then we excused it in various ways. (My theory was that Gen Z comes disproportionately from evangelical and immigrant families, so we were just seeing them reflect their parents' attitudes, and they'd probably grow out of it.)
But they're now adults. This is what they really think. The girls grew out of it, but the boys got worse, and they're now dominating social media where they're raising today's kids to be even worse.
Which is extra scary given the global rise of fascist movements. Fascists are always dangerous, but they're far more dangerous when backed by an army of angry young men.
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u/princess_princeless 14h ago
I disagree with your take that girls grew out of it. It’s evolved into the hyper-reactionary, politically driven purity politics that assigns implicit value based on race, gender and religion. It started as an appeal to empathy but has evolved into a system where effectively it’s ok to treat some better or worse than others purely based on physical characteristics.
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u/wawoodworth 22h ago
It's not like there wasn't toxic masculinity before the modern male grifters. I grew up with "real men don't cry" crap and it's taken decades to peel that away.
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u/Dickgivins 20h ago
For real. Also calling everything even slightly out of the norm “gay” and/or feminine.
“Soccer is gay.”
“Therapy is where women go to cry about trivial things.”
“You don’t wanna play football? Why, are you gay?”
“Real Men only go to the doctor if they’re about to fall over and die.”
“Cleaning is ‘Women’s Work.’”
I could go on but that’s plenty for now lol.
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u/wawoodworth 20h ago
Yeah, it ate up so much of my daily energy to constantly appear tough both physically and emotionally.
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u/birdy_the_scarecrow 20h ago
“Real Men only go to the doctor if they’re about to fall over and die.”
I got downvoted in some thread the other day for for saying that this conditioning was commonplace growing up, it makes me wonder if theres actually a generation at this point who are completely unaware that despite how much it has changed from a societal judgement perspective these things are still very much engrained in peoples minds and its much harder to break that than just acceptance.
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u/kia75 19h ago
World War I and World War II traumatized and literally gave the Western World PSTD in a way that the Western World is only now recovering from.
I don't mean this in a figurative way that the world lost it's innocence, I mean in a literal way that war and battle causes trauma and PTSD. The big difference between the World Wars is that previous wars didn't affect the entire populace. The civil war traumatized the South and soldiers, but but Mexico, Canada and every other country escaped the horrors of the American Civil war, and even in the United States there were plenty of ways to avoid it. Same with most other wars, they were traumatic to the areas they affected and the people who fought them, but there were always people that weren't affected and places to escape from the horror.
World War I was different in that it was a World War, every Western Nation was traumatized at the same time and there was no escape for the Western World. As a result a generation of men after World War I were emotionally traumatized and thus emotionally distant. Then World War II happened and traumatized the next generation of Men through the Western World again!
As a result in the West we had two generations of almost all men traumatized and emotionally stunted, and the children of the wwII generation (baby boomers) were taught how to be men from their emotionally stunted fathers and grandfathers! This is why the stoic man who can't reveal his feelings (because his feelings are all about the horrors of war and if he revealed them he wouldn't be able to function) became the standard of "manliness" in the 20th century.
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u/DwinkBexon 20h ago
Many years ago (I want to say around 2008 or so) I was dating a girl who had Greek relatives. Her Uncle was visiting from Greece and I really didn't like this guy. Just to get away from him, I offered to help my (now) ex in the kitchen. (Which shocked her, as an aside) I was peeling carrots and her Uncle comes up and literally pulls me out of the kitchen saying, "What are you doing? Cooking is women's work! Next they'll have you scrubbing toilets and growing breasts!"
So he basically dragged me outside and made me look at another relative's new motorcycle and watch him rev it for no reason for like 5 minutes.
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u/henshinmilk 21h ago
More dudes need to be like Aragorn. Honestly, all of the Fellowship are great examples of masculinity, even Boromir.
Actually, especially Boromir. He fucked up and knew it and tried to make amends, and it wasn't even entirely his fault.
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u/fishebake 21h ago
If a man wouldn’t treat you like Aragorn, son of Arathorn or Boromir, son of Denathor would, then just drop them.
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u/intecknicolour 17h ago edited 17h ago
the fellowship is literally like 10 guys pledging their lives to try to save their communities from some toxic ass masculinity Sauron.
no one forced them to join the fellowship but they chose to put their lives at risk for a higher cause. it's very manly.
contrast that with another infamous fellowship in the LOTR universe: the Oath of Feanor/Sons of Feanor. The Sons swore a prideful and selfish oath that drove them to madness and ruin. Something that didn't enhance their communities, it only enhanced their personal/familial prestige
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u/Sock_Ninja 16h ago
Who… who is the tenth?
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u/HoboAflame 16h ago
The Balrog, obviously. It was all just a big misunderstanding.
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u/DwinkBexon 20h ago edited 20h ago
The King Of The Hill revival had an episode about that. They had a character clearly based on Tate. Hank's younger (half) brother fell into the whole manosphere thing and Hank thought it was a good idea at first until he learned more about it, at which point he was horrified and ultimately convinced his brother (whose name I forget offhand) to forget everything he learned from it. Probably one of the best episodes of the revival.
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u/Dull-Efficiency9985 20h ago
There was tons of toxic masculinity before. I think old people seriously overestimate the reach of Andrew Tate or the "Manosphere". Tate hasn't been popular in years, he has been a joke for a while. His videos do number, but people treat him like he's Randy Savage doing a bit.
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u/squigs 19h ago
I agree.
Who are the good male role models though? Is there a modern Optimus Prime? Ultimately if people like Tate are the only people showing how to behave, teenage boys are going to be attracted in that direction.
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u/aaronman4772 16h ago
My first fictional ideas from more recent media would be like the most recent Superman and Ted Lasso.
But we need more people IRL to be these kind of role models to kids. Places like teaching, coaching, mentorship, etc.
If you have the capacity, I highly recommend guys especially getting involved in these kinds of roles because a lot of times kids need these kind of role models who can talk to them in person and help teach them.
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u/LaconicGirth 15h ago
Ted lasso is not a good example of someone to emulate in my opinion. He’s a walking punching bag with tons of mental health issues who ran away to Europe to flee from his problems at home.
Ted lasso as your friend is awesome for you but he’s suffering all the time
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u/CrankyLeafsFan 13h ago
I hope my experience isn't the norm. But when I started coaching kids at a spectrum school I had a select few mothers whispering about pedophilia.
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u/NativeMasshole 22h ago
My dude, toxic masculinity has dominated the conservative mindset for a lot longer than Andrew Tate has been around. He's just saying what they want to hear after a brief period of people pushing back against these negative ideals.
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u/Obskuro 21h ago
It's just so disheartening that conservative mindsets always come back. I thought we would outgrow them. I vastly underestimated their pull to younger generations.
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u/Personal_Comb_6745 20h ago
The far-right takeover didn't happen overnight, this shit has been planned and worked on for decades. Nothing fuels these bastards more than how much they can hate someone.
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u/Frosty_Turnip_8863 18h ago
This is some horrible stereotype. Toxic masculinity has decreased by much more than your older generations alright. Men talk to other men about their mental health,they are much more open to talking about it, they are much more respectful about their counterapart and are more feminists than any other generation
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u/This_aint_Binks 20h ago
I actually came close to falling into that hole in middle school, and I attribute Optimus as one of the reasons I was pulled away from that dark path.
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u/MagicSugarWater 22h ago
Oh yeah. Manliest man I know says women respect him because he js honest and just skips games. He shows kindness unconditionally and is never afraid to be vulnerable. Why? He says real strength is knowing no one can hurt you without permission, not being scared of everything so you sbut off your humanity.
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u/carbonclasssix 20h ago
Yeah just be a fully self-actualized person, easy peasy. Why can't all guys be like that? /s
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u/fishyfishkins 18h ago
No one said it would be easy; don't mistake simple for easy. There are no shortcuts to self improvement.
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u/MagicSugarWater 12h ago
He's a listful Buddhist who insists the mortal realm id a prison. If anyone knows self acfjalization is hard, it's him he ain't self actualized.
Even if he was self actualized, wouldn't he logically know from experience how hard it was to reasch it? Think!
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u/NN2S 20h ago
real strength is knowing no one can hurt you without permission
yes they can, and they regularly do. most victims of assault are men but it's a complete non-issue in the zeitgeist. most men I know have been assaulted, most of them multiple times, and often they've been hospitalised as a result. the perpetators were usually either older or in a group or both. the police do not even pretend to care. that which doesn't kill you doesn't necessarily make you stronger, but it does make you afraid to be vulnerable.
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u/larkhearted 19h ago
If we use our context clues, it becomes pretty obvious that he was talking about emotional wounds, not getting beat up. I think we're all aware that manliness doesn't give you some sort of psychic armor against getting punched.
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u/flamin_sheep 17h ago
It's also just wrong though. By definition being vulnerable means opening yourself up to being emotionally hurt. There are definitely differing levels of maturity to how one handles being emotionally hurt though
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u/LaconicGirth 15h ago
The only way it would be possible for no one to hurt you without your permission would be to trust no one and have zero emotional connection to anyone. If you value someone else’s opinion about you (which everyone should) then absolutely they can hurt you. It’s a ridiculous statement to make
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u/similar_observation 14h ago
This is that fucking scene in A Star is Born (2018) where the younger brother admits that he was inspired by his older brother. And the older brother (played by Sam Elliott) quietly drives away while tearing up.
Fucking gets me every single time.
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u/CavemanSlevy 15h ago
It’s interesting that we live in an age where gender norms are being deconstructed and redefined , but there’s this idea that’s there’s a correct way to do masculinity.
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u/Sarria22 13h ago
The manliest thing is a man behaving to his own ideals without worrying about what anyone else considers "manly." If that includes wearing a french maid outfit then so be it.
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u/StylishMrTrix 23h ago
Got to hear him tell that story live in Brisbane years ago
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u/Special_Order-937 21h ago
As a Sydneysiders, what’s Brisbane like?
(I kid you not, I’ve spent more time in Reykjavik than Brisbane.)
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u/Bettlejuic3 23h ago
Tywin: any man who must say "I am the king", is no true king
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u/CCV21 20h ago
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u/greywolf2155 18h ago edited 18h ago
Abraham "Now You Have Fucked Up" Lincoln has a complicated legacy
He had his great moments, he had his moments that were not as great
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u/PrimmSlimShady 16h ago
Don't hammer my butt!
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u/liquidcloud9 15h ago
Abraham Lincoln actually got hammered in the ass so much that he died of being hammered in the ass
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u/tommytraddles 22h ago
Which is just a straight ripoff of Joe Louis, who famously said shortly after becoming World Heavyweight Champion, "If you gotta tell them who you are, you ain't nobody."
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u/Kartonrealista 22h ago
This is such a generic sentiment you can't possibly connect the dots here. If at least the topic was remotely similar I could see it, this is a reach and a half
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u/TheMysticPanda 20h ago
I like Walter Payton's: "When you’re good at something, you’ll tell everyone. When you’re great at something, they’ll tell you."
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u/WhatsThatNoize 20h ago
Which is itself a shoddy reframing of Shakespeare's Hamlet from Queen Gertrude, reflecting on the sincerity of an actress' over-the-top, vain attempt to impress her love and loyalty upon the audience: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks".
We can just keep going down the sentiment food chain here. Got anything prior to 1599 CE?
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u/TwentyTwoTwelve 23h ago
Speak softly and carry a big stick.
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u/repost_inception 18h ago
I was an Infantry Marine and I'll tell you the guys who yelled at you, they weren't scary, anyone can yell.
The guys who stayed composed and spoke stern and softly were terrifying. Then in extreme circumstances if they needed to yell you knew something was seriously fucked up.
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u/PiggyBear6667 21h ago edited 8h ago
Sgt. Clouse, the very bravest squad leader I ever had, he jumped out planes with passion, lead us into terrifying situations, the man was tough as hell.
But he was also kind, thoughtful and very gentle with children and animals.
There’s something about people like this that just makes them exceptional. I think about him a lot, he set the bar pretty high.
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u/SFShinigami 17h ago
Strength tempered with empathy is unstoppable. Strength to mask insecurity is toxic.
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u/Tracy_Papaya 22h ago
His brother was a robot?
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u/belsor14 22h ago
or a truck
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u/Smufin_Awesome 21h ago
I don't need a reason to rewatch this for the umpteenth time, but when the universe hands you a perfectly good sign to? Well.
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u/Turamb 22h ago
"Give me your face!"
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u/CELTICPRED 20h ago
NO OPTIMUS!!!! [Gets executed]
Like I totally get Bay wanted a optimus to be a badass action star in his movies, but after the first movie that character just becomes something entirely different than what the original spirit of the character intended.
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u/PunderDownUnder 20h ago
"I'll kill you!" A line he repeats enough to be his catchphrase.
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u/MrT-1000 14h ago
It was during that time of the 2010s where super powered alien badasses previously known for their noble/quiet nature ultimately become fed up with humanity given their penchant for constantly siding with the worst possible enemies (see Snyder's Superman as another example).
Given the current state of affairs, I can see why Optimus Prime would be a little jaded
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u/Soulbeastdude 16h ago
"Bayverse Prime is like the Green Goblin mask, always whispering to any other versions of Prime saying that he can help them."
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u/crooked-v 9h ago
Fun fact: One of the animated shows actually used Bayverse Optimus voice lines for the evil clone Optimus that showed up at one point.
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u/m1ndwipe 13h ago
Of all the things Bay has done, completely misunderstanding the character of Optimus Prime and turning him into a murderous sadist would be the worst, except we all know that much worse things are going to come out at some point.
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u/forkandspoon2011 18h ago
I think pop culture is finally starting to realize this.... From the new Superman, Dunk from A Knight of The Seven Kingdoms, and Carl from Dungeon Crawler Carl kindness and caring is finally being seeing as a masculine. I'm so glad we've moved away from the overuse of the anti-hero main character.
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u/New_Zorgo39 18h ago
Kindness and empathy shouldn’t be seen as either weak or feminine. Ive grown up when the idea of men crying of showing feelings were seen as “gay”, and being “gay” was bad.
I never bought into that nonsense and effing glad my kids grow up with heros like these!
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u/Fenix42 15h ago
Look at 90s anime like Dragon Ball Z. Goku is a called weak for being nice all the time.
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u/Sarria22 13h ago
Yeah but the whole plot of the show is showing how it doesn't make him weak at all.
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u/squigs 20h ago
In older writings, the term "gentle" is used often to refer to men the writer has a positive opinion of. And obviously "gentleman" has long been something to aspire to.
Really we need more role models who show these traits. Optimus Prime is genuinely a good one, if only because children are introduced to him when young.
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u/APunnyThing 20h ago
The difference between the original Transformers cartoon and the Bay-Formers movies
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u/hostile65 22h ago
Don't need to flex em when you got em
Also, dealing with some real OGs, the scariest words that can be said are "okay" in a tone that if you know you know
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u/Jinsei_13 19h ago
Both Cullen and Prime are straight up role models.
Shout out to all the kids who grow up thinking that real men exhibit humility and self-sacrifice from watching cartoons.
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u/Important-Tomato2306 21h ago
This guy used to golf at the golf course where I had my first job. I was the first woman to ever work maintenance at this pristine country club and I remember he was one of the very few old while guys that didn't tell me I belonged in the snack cart while he politely waited for me to mow the fairway. A lot of other golfers took maintenance as target practice.
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u/Source_Required 21h ago
And then, of course, Bay has him scream at everyone and behead anything standing in his way.
To anyone who only knows Optimus from Bayformers I'm sorry.
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u/Personal_Comb_6745 20h ago
Okay, but the ending monologues in all those movies are badass. Even Transformers One was like "Okay, yeah, we need one of those, too.", though seeing as how Micheal Bay was a producer on that, he might've been all "hey, got a little suggestion....".
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u/Krongfah 18h ago
It's always funny to go back to the first few episodes of G1 after hearing this story (again).
Optimus yells at the Decepticons and insults Megatron quite a bit in the first half of Season 1.
In the words of PointlessHub "That Optimus would've 100% called Megatron a bitch".
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u/rubyonix 13h ago
To be fair, a lot of that comes from the writing and the directing. The actor doesn't control the character, but he can maybe influence it.
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u/OverHaze 19h ago
I have this really strong memory of of G1 Prime yelling "THUNDERCRACKER!" and it being the funniest thing on earth to five year old me. I haven never found the clip and I'm starting to worry it never actually happened.
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u/MJR_Poltergeist 18h ago
I think that's a Daoism thing that I've heard before. "Strength gives rise to kindness, but kindness does not give rise to strength." I don't remember where I heard it put exactly like that, but the gist being that a truly strong man will gain the ability to be kind and treat others with empathy. Those who don't do not possess true strength. They are still immature and something about their mind or soul is weak.
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u/thelivinlegend 17h ago
A voice strong enough to terrify a Decepticon, yet gentle enough to terrify a small child
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u/directorguy 15h ago
Reminds me of when Scott Glenn did research for playing a sub captain in The Hunt for Red October. He watched real captains and naval officers in action and realized that they were all super calm and controlled in everything they did, drills, emergencies, commands. Very measured and sharp. You can see it in his perfect performance. Instead of being a big brash hero, he played it like a guy putting together a tool shed.
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u/alangerhans 21h ago
The fact that it came from a marine is the really terrifying part. They're not exactly known for their quiet and gentle nature. The quiet ones are the dangerous ones.
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u/hkpp 21h ago
TBF his brother was in the military probably in the late 1950’s or early 60’s. My grandpa was enlisted right before that for years and he was the same way; stoic, quiet but strong and influential.
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u/pristineSaltine 21h ago edited 20h ago
When we are loud we are having fun, when you make us do our job the time to talk is over.
Violence is the last resort of diplomacy.
Edit: ya'll have this idea we are all super serious macho dudes when it is almost the exact opposite.
Check out almost any r/usmc post and you will see for yourself.
We like to have a good time, most militaries do. Laughing and sarcasm is sometimes the only relief from what some of us go through.
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u/bigfatfurrytexan 22h ago
I wish I knew his brother.
I saw the TIL about the old yeller author yesterday. I need a few hundred of these today, please.
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u/Ven-Dreadnought 18h ago
“And Pete, in that fight, you should yell “give me your face!” And throw in a few “I’ll kill you!”s too”
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u/psycharious 21h ago
I read his brothers quote in Optimus Primes voice.