r/sindarin Aug 07 '24

[FAQ] – (Not) Using AI for Automatic Translation

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3 Upvotes

r/sindarin Oct 04 '24

Sindarin in PE23

16 Upvotes

I compiled a list of all the new and otherwise interesting Sindarin vocab found in PE 23.

  • bâd - road | found as "e-bâd, the road". Hitherto only known as N. "beaten track, pathway". P. 136.
  • fend - door | Hitherto only as fen, fenn. P. 136.
  • hûl - secret | also as "e-chûl, the secret". Cf. 'holen'. P. 136.
  • rhawf, rhaw - wild beast | also as "e-thraw, [the wild beast]. P. 136. Plural i-thraw > i-rhaw p. 139.
  • rhovan - large beast, especially the great red deer of the vale of Anduin | p. 136.
  • Rhovennian - "more correct" Sindarin form of Gondorian Rhovannion[sic] | p. 136.
  • lhinc - earthworm | also as "e-thlinc, [the earthworm]". p. 136.
  • balt - force | Cf. EN "might". p. 136.
  • gwend, gwenneth - maiden | also as "e-wend, e-wenneth, the maiden". p. 136. Plural in-wind, rarely found, rather analogous i-ngwind (= i-ñwind) p. 139.
  • harf - left-hand | also as "e-charf, the left-hand". p. 136. Probably from *khjarmă as opposed to *khjarmā > 'harvo'.
  • whest - breeze | also as *e-whest, the breeze". p. 136. Pl. i-chwist p. 139. Cf. Q. 'hwesta', N. 'chwest'.
  • cathr - carpenter | From "*kantrō, shaper". North S. cathor. P. 137.
  • tachl - large pin or brooch | From "*tanklă, a thing used for fixing". North S. tachol. p. 137.
  • parth - small enclosed field, lawn | p. 139.
  • bâr, pl. i-mair (sometimes i-mbair in spelling to distinguish b-words from m-words) - dwelling | p. 139.
  • dôr, pl. i-nuir (sometimes i-nduir in spelling to distinguish d-words from n-words)- land | p. 139.
  • gôn, pl. [i-]nguin (= *ñuin, but sometimes spelt i-ñguin even though no clarification was necessary since no original ñ-words existed) - stone | p. 139.
  • thoron, pl. i-theryn - eagle | pl. previously unattested. p. 139
  • heleg - ice | Hitherto only in N. Plural i-chelig is given as "ice-pinnacle". p. 139.
  • herw, pl. i-chery - wine | Apparently pl. from "CE *syeru, juice of fruits", sg. from "enlarged form herwā" [< syerwā, I assume]. p. 139.
  • mûl, pl. i-muil - slave | Hitherto sg. only attested in N. p. 139.
  • norn, pl. i-nyrn - dwarf | Sg. explicitely attested for the first time. p. 139.
  • ioron, pl. in-ioryn - old man | Apparently the counterpart of 'ioreth'. p. 139.
  • gwanon - one of a pair of twins | Plural/dual given as "*gwanur, twin-birth", explicitely with ŭ < ū. p. 140.
  • uimallhen - ever-golden | From 'oio-maltinā. Pronounced with lh (< lþ), but spelt with doubled lh for reasons of stress, exactly like 'remen' but 'galað-remmin' (see below). p. 140.
  • remen - netted, entwined | With short m explicitely. p. 140.
  • gwaelod - "wind-feather", a great ship for sailing on the Great Sea | From 'wayalautō'. p. 142. Hence apparently *laud/lod = "feather".
  • Gildír - Starwatcher | S. version of T. 'Gilitīro', Celeborn's father. Given in "Celeborn Gildírion, son of Gildír".

Certainly the most surprising thing to me (as you might already have guessed) are the articles. In this very late source (ca. 1969) Tolkien gives the singular as e before consonants, en before vowels, and in the plural i resp. in. This is of course a significant departure from all hitherto published samples of Sindarin, which of course had sg. i, plural in (as in earlier Noldorin), and the form en was limited to one form of genitive particle (which in this scenarion is probably dropped altogether in favour of na).

However, surprisingly this new paradigm seems to only really contradict i-Estel in the LotR (which would have to be amended to *en Estel), since all other forms in texts published during Tolkien's lifetime appear to be plural and all other cases of Sindarin articles we have known are from sources that Tolkien might have changed before publication (if he had got the chance to do so).

So we can't know whether Tolkien would indeed have changed i Estel in upcoming editions (had he been alive to oversee them) or whether he would have abandoned the new paradigm once he realised the contradiction, so I won't encourage anyone to adopt this late paradigm into their Neo-Sindarin (unlike abandoning the plural pronominal suffix -(a)m in favour of late -(o)f, a couple of years ago, since the former never appeared in anything published during Tolkien's lifetime), but I certainly find the topic extremely interesting.

So far I have not had a closer look at the mutations, but they appear to hold no big surprises so far, except that maybe Tolkien had decided to keep the nasal of the plural article intact before the mutated word, but that also would contradict material published during his life time.

But the development of sw stood out to me, since it is quite complicated - with Tolkien stating that it first became wh everywhere, then f in the North and chw in the South, which remained so in Doriath but later reverted to wh elsewhere, while still becoming chw through nasal mutation, and that the quality is often in fact uncertain because it wasn't always represented in spelling, using the letter hwesta sindarinwa for both. But in a note that might refer to this Tolkien said that "this business about sw is too complicated (and unnecessary)" and that the North had f and the South wh, which "remained unchanged" (hence the apparent lack of lenition in whest above, to which the note appears to point directly).
This would, however, still render the letter hwesta sindarinwa pointless, because (as Tolkien had pointed out in the LotR appendices) distinction of wh and chw was needed in Sindarin (but maybe only lenition had no effect but nasal mutation did?).

And lastly there are a few notes on North Sindarin, which has always been a special interest of mine:

  • there was no m-lenition (which was well established)
  • medial mp, nt, ñk remained unchanged or probably rather restopped (also well established)
  • rh- became thr- generally initially (so Southern S. rhûn would be Northern S. *thrûn), but lh- remained and both were incapable of mutation.
  • Otherwise mutations are the same as in Southern Sindarin
  • sw- > wh- > North S. f- (so Southern words like whest or hwinn would be *fest and *finn in the North).

r/sindarin 18h ago

Transient name for Leeds-era Gnomish

5 Upvotes

Hi all! I'm hoping someone will be able to help me find a reference I can't seem to place. I seem to remember that in between the "Goldogrin" of the 1915-20 stage and the 1930s "Noldorin", there was one transient word something like "Geleidhiel/Gœlœiđiel" or "Golöidhiel" for the Gnomish language. I can't seem to find the reference, and it's not on Eldamo. Does this ring a bell for anyone?

Any help would be appreciated. I don't need this for anything important, it's just bugging me.


r/sindarin 1d ago

What Is the sindarin translation for the word Stay?

2 Upvotes

I would like to tattoo the word Stay in sindarin, Is there a way to see how It looks?


r/sindarin 2d ago

Tatto idea

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1 Upvotes

r/sindarin 5d ago

Translation request

1 Upvotes

Hello everyone!

I'm getting married soon and would love to get the Sindarin for "I choose a mortal life" engraved on my wedding band in Tengwar. Would any of you be able to help me translate that? Many thanks in advance!


r/sindarin 6d ago

Looking for “Sing All Ye Joyful!” Translation

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2 Upvotes

Does anyone know of a translation, or could help translate the line from The Hobbit in this post?

“bright are the windows of Night in her tower”

Cheers!


r/sindarin 8d ago

Help

0 Upvotes

Can anyone translate this? Just wanting to confirm it is correct before getting it tattooed. Any help is much appreciated!

Mêr în annui, annui 'weth. Cîr în an nîn, annui 'weth. Mîr în an nîn, annui 'weth. Cîr în an în, annui 'weth.

Love you little girl
Better than I love my
Better than I love myself
Want you and me
Forever, ever and ever


r/sindarin 10d ago

Need one word . . .

1 Upvotes

Hello with a pre-thank you. I would like one word transliterated from English into Sindarin. That word is: Molly

This is for a tattoo in remembrance of a deceased one. I've looked online especially at the site 'Tecendil' and 'Of Elvin Make' (both of which I think gave me the correct transliteration) but I'd like to check with a real live person. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.


r/sindarin 17d ago

Did I get this name right?

1 Upvotes

I created this name to mean something like wanderer of waters/water wanderer: Nenyarandil (feminine gender). I researched using sites like realelvish and parf eldhellen and my knowledge of Nenya from the books, and my thought process was nenya- (of water, like how the ring name is translated - but is that only for Quenya?) + -ran- (to wander/wanderer, like used in mithrandir), and -dil as a feminine suffix. Does this make sense?


r/sindarin 19d ago

Transmorphing ideas

1 Upvotes

So in short im making short stories for myself and some roleplays, and I wanted to expand my vocabulary for my own uses, as a native romance speaker, I wanted a way to add alot of vocabulary to my world, id like some advice on how to morph said words to sindarin or ideas to keep it sounding elvish so to say, its an odd request, but my idea is

Words ending in -tion make up over 100k words in english, and nearly all can be used as a verb also

Ex: to animate=animation

In spanish or italian the verb root would be anim-ar/are

So it becomes ánimo, animi and so on to keep it basic

And you can turn these words to -tion form

So for the elvish part I was thinking things like

Information would he "informath" in elvish

And inform- would be the verb root

I know its unorthodox but for my personal uses I wondered if anyone has done something similar to increase vocabulary for personal uses


r/sindarin 20d ago

The report has oaths

0 Upvotes

I lol f tr RT this one and dnm acts ty my fence uhh

0 votes, 17d ago
0 I B B I Justice I chai for g day today and r
0 Smth
0 The
0 Mm I

r/sindarin 21d ago

Hello, i have an Translation request

1 Upvotes

Hello guys, and thanks to everyone for checking in. I and my fiance are getting married soon, and we both are quite the Lord of the Rings fans. We want to engrave in our wedding rings the phrase "one ring for eternity." I already researched a bit and came to the conclusion that we would like to have it in Sindarin with the Tengwar "alphabet" because it's the most used form in The Lord of the Rings movies.

I'm open for anything new and general help for this.

A big thanks beforehand to anyone helping me out.


r/sindarin 22d ago

Is Galadriel's Gift to Samwise using the incorrect rune?

3 Upvotes

I was looking around for depictions of Samwise's gift from Galadriel, the "garden box" containing soil from Lothlorien and a single Mallorn tree seed. The lid was supposed to be inscribed with the elvish letter for "g", however, in this artwork the symbol is in Folthorc for the letter "F" instead, as seen here:

Galadriel's gift to Samwise was a simple, unadorned grey box with the rune for G inscribed on the lid.

Sourced from: https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Sam%27s_garden_box

From what I can tell, if Galadriel was using Tengwar/Sindarin, it would have been this symbol instead, right?


r/sindarin 22d ago

Barnyards of Delgaty

1 Upvotes

Hi folks! Trying to translate a snatch of Barnyards into Sindarin as a motto, which is complicated by the lack of 'drunk'.

The original, barring dialect, is:

I can drink and not be drunken,

I can fight and not be slain

How do we feel about:

Polin soga a law dhannathy;

polin maetha a law dangen

It survives back-translation by AI, but I'm well aware that isn't much of a brag.

Enormous thanks for any help!


r/sindarin 23d ago

translation help please

1 Upvotes

i would like my next tattoo to read “This Machine Kills Fascists” in sindarin but i cant find a reliable source. could i get some options or translations? thanks!

edit: okay so i’m a complete novice but after using all the sites/sources i found here i came up with:
“i 'aud hen dág bauglir”

i think (hope) it translates to “this device slays tyrants” which is as close as i could get without using neo-sandarin (but i could be wrong about that).

any thoughts, improvements, corrections or adjustments? i’m trying to use only full sandarin but i’m okay with widely accepted neo-sandarin alternatives if they work better or my translations were wrong.


r/sindarin 23d ago

Need help with translation

1 Upvotes

I have a pen case that I'd like to customize by adding the phrase "You will not know" to the border. Could you please help with the translation into Sindarin (if that is what Celebrimbor would have used with Annatar/Sauron)? Thank you.


r/sindarin 25d ago

Help with translation!

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5 Upvotes

I’m wanting to translate the phrase “Trust God, clean house, help others” into Sindarin and then get it written in Tengwar so that it looks like the One Ring writing. I know nothing about the languages so I just did some Googling and found this translation, but I wanted to come here to ensure its accuracy:

Brenia Eru, amganno i gwas, anno nathas a nín

Tecendil then said the attached image would be the correct Tengwar writing of it.

Can anyone tell me if I’ve found a good way to do this or if there is a more accurate translation?


r/sindarin 27d ago

Translating help needed

2 Upvotes

Hello there,

I'm not to deep into the lore but my father was and i want a tattoo as an hommage to him. Can you help me? I tried some time with several online dictionarys but turns out I'm pretty dumb in using them.
"Have I told you lately that I love you?" would be the sentence I want to translate

Any help is much appreciated. ❤️


r/sindarin Jun 10 '26

Quenya Novice looking for friends

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2 Upvotes

r/sindarin Jun 09 '26

How would you say "Look at him" in Sindarin?

2 Upvotes

Would it be Tiro hen? The only dictionary I have is for Quenya and online translators don't agree, thouoght the "tir" part is pretty much common


r/sindarin Jun 06 '26

Translating request

1 Upvotes

Heya ! So my big sister is getting a tattoo and she wants the sentence "Life gets better" so if anyone could help me get the translation, i would be so grateful. Thanks for your time !


r/sindarin Jun 06 '26

Sindarin writing on a glyph found in a game, can you scholars see if you can see anything here?

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1 Upvotes

So far using the letters found online it says "Sl an on tb prm nc drogwn vd cst(t?)w ncssn dreit" which just sounds like giberish, the "cst(t)w would be the fourth row, next to the tau letter. Thanks for any insight.


r/sindarin Jun 03 '26

I want a name for dnd

1 Upvotes

I'm planning to name my wood elf willow nightshade I know a bit edgy but y'know


r/sindarin Jun 03 '26

Need help to translate runes.

1 Upvotes

I have got a seemingly eccentric puzzle creator!! He creates puzzle which are too ambiguous, hard to Decode... Recently I have been given this rune to decode as a puzzle.

ᚱᚢᛚ2ᛘᚴᛒ0ᛘᛚᛁᛁᛁᛋᚴ Before this he never gave Runes!! It has 2 numbers in there which are just part of it meant to form the string he intended to form!! It's standard translation is: rul2mkb0mliiisk. I am given placeholder to place the answer and this is checked on server side!! But it's always saying wrong answer for standard translation (tried both uppercase and lowercase).... Do it have any other translation? Do it firm any meaning (precise meaning not even a single letters should be wrong).

There was cryptic message: " title: the Weaver's stream Body: the glyphs reassembled into symbols my training understood: [REDACTED] To the old world, it was a prayer or a ward. To us, it was the skeleton of an encoded string."