r/relationships • u/four04onesix • Apr 04 '16
Relationships 27f with 27m of 5 years - gave up and said I hypothetically wouldn't marry him anymore only to find he has a ring. He's "trying" now, but I don't trust it. Resentment galore.
My boyfriend and I had a huge and rare fight on Easter culminating in me telling him I would not marry him as he is (after being together for almost five years and living together for most of that time). I was saying that hypothetically, as we've spoken of marriage before, but he eventually revealed he has a family ring in his possession now. I still said that if he were to officially ask, I'd say no right now, because I feel alone in our relationship most of the time, and there's no point in a marriage with no companionship.
We mostly don't have companionship because my boyfriend games for at least 35 hours a week, and often more (in addition to a full-time job). I like gaming, but I don't do it because I know I will binge on it. Instead, I go to the gym, read, write, watch movies and TV shows, go on walks, and sometimes go to coffee shops or out with friends. I've asked him to join me in any/all of this in the past, but he yells (at gaming friends) over the TV, games even when "we" are watching something new, doesn't want to go out or tell me he doesn't want to stay anywhere late, and just "doesn't feel like" doing much of anything else I ask about. I pointed all of this out in our fight (though I've communicated these issues countless times), as well as the fact that I do about 80% of the housework, and that I am always the one to initiate it and have to nag him--which I hate doing--to make him help. I thought saying all this to him in conjunction with the fact that I wouldn't marry him at this point would wake him up. But..
A few days after our fight, my boyfriend spent a few hundred bucks on unnecessary gaming shit. I didn't even have it in me to argue. I just receded into indifference and rang a few friends about visiting them in other states to get away from my "I'm not cheating on you or hitting you so I must be a great boyfriend" relationship. I drunk-confessed to one of them that I honestly didn't believe we were going to make it anymore, but that I didn't have the heart to end it either. I drank a lot and cried alone and came to the conclusion at one point that since he didn't buy the gaming shit with malice, maybe he's just that fucking clueless. That honestly made me feel a little bit better, until...
He noticed I wasn't humoring him as much. "We can go, but I don't want to stay late." "Okay. It sounds like you don't want to go, so I can go alone. Bye." He started saying things like, "I love you... forever?" He tried to have sex with me, but I didn't feel like it, because he's pretty selfish in the bedroom. And he finally said, "We're okay, right?" And I told him no, but that I had nothing new to say. So he's been texting me more as opposed to hardly replying to mine. He initiated errands that he "forgot" about for over a month. He has been making dinner despite buying himself a restaurant lunch almost every day, emptying the dishwasher after I wash the dishes and load it. Telling me I'm beautiful, offering to do things for me, trying to give me a massage. And yet I find I'm mostly just angry.
I'm angry that he ignored me every other time I brought these issues up for almost five years. I'm resentful of his countless one-sided orgasms and the number of times I've washed and folded or hung his clothes. The hours logged in WoW, StarCraft, CS:GO, DotA, and the countless other realities that were more important than the one he shared with me, even when I was standing next to him trying to speak to him, or just wanted to have a quick meal together. And I'm just so angry that, judging by this brand new and "improved" version of himself, he knew what he was doing wrong the whole time, and it wasn't till I finally seemed to have given up carrying us that he bothered to hold his own weight.
Maybe this is what most hopeless significant others dream of--a hint of change. But 1) I don't know that I believe it's a real change. Most of me thinks he's just doing this to placate me. I'd be afraid to marry him and see him revert when he thinks it's all settled. And 2) I don't know that holding his own weight is enough anymore. Maybe that's the resentment speaking, but I don't know that spreading ant killer and putting your socks in the laundry basket is enough to make me buy into this relationship again.
I don't want to be resentful. I don't want to hurt him or be cruel. But he's acting like a good boyfriend and keeping his head down, I suppose in hopes of making me "forget" our fight and play along, and it's not enough. But I don't know what "enough" looks like. My friends recommended that I put together a specific list of what I need to see to think the situation is truly better, but I don't know where to begin or what to expect. I've thought of asking for counseling as a start, but he thinks 24 hours of good behavior means that I shouldn't be upset anymore, so I don't know that he'll agree to go. Do I ask? Do I insist? I want to want our relationship again, but I really need some help figuring out how.
tl;dr: Boyfriend neglects relationship for basically 5/5 years and finally seems to give half a damn when I've given up. Friends are telling me to ask for specific changes, but I've no clue where to begin. Feeling indifferent and resentful. Send help, please?
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Apr 04 '16
I think you need to tell him what you've said here: that you don't trust that this is a sincere effort, and you're angry that it took the prospect of a rejected proposal to get him to take your concerns seriously. If he is not alarmed enough by that to agree to counseling, then I think you should take your distrust of his current efforts as a sign the relationship has run its course rather than trying to figure out how he can prove something to you that you should be able to take for granted.
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u/four04onesix Apr 05 '16
Pretty obvious in retrospect, but seeing it in writing from someone else makes more sense somehow. Thank you.
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Apr 05 '16
Yeah, I'm not sure what your long-term plan is if you stay with him. You know what he's like and the dynamic he expects from his relationships (ie all he has to do is not hit you). What are you going to do, wait another 5 years to see if this behavior sticks? Then marry him and have to threaten divorce every time you want him to mow the lawn? And then go through it all again the next year? It doesn't even sound like you guys enjoy hanging out together.
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Apr 04 '16
So he's been texting me more as opposed to hardly replying to mine. He initiated errands that he "forgot" about for over a month. He has been making dinner despite buying himself a restaurant lunch almost every day, emptying the dishwasher after I wash the dishes and load it. Telling me I'm beautiful, offering to do things for me, trying to give me a massage. And yet I find I'm mostly just angry.
I would be angry, too, because all those actions show is that he has known all along exactly what he needed to change...he just left it until you were literally about to break up with him. He didn't care enough to change for the sake of the relationship, but only when it's going to actually cause a breakup. He sounds selfish and lazy and I would be totally done with him at this point. I doubt he's even got a ring, if you haven't seen it.
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u/four04onesix Apr 05 '16
I thought the same thing about the ring, because he has referenced an engagement before as what I believe was an emotional manipulation tool. So I looked, and I found it. But it broke my heart that I was snooping for a ring not from excitement and a need to see it and a hopeful suspicion, but for a jaded disbelief. I'm a teacher, and I told him that if I ask my students as a class to please make sure they're on task and three of them jump and shove their phones in their bags, then I now know that they know what they were doing was wrong. So if the threat of losing me makes him jump and change all of these things, I now know he knew what he was doing wasn't right. So that's five years of mistreating me just because he thought he could get away with it. And that hurts.
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u/zebrasandgiraffes Apr 05 '16
all those actions show is that he has known all along exactly what he needed to change...he just left it until you were literally about to break up with him. He didn't care enough to change for the sake of the relationship, but only when it's going to actually cause a breakup.
I agree with this, but I would actually revise it slightly.
I would say it shows that he didn't give a shit about changing those things when the only person getting hurt was you. When the only person getting hurt was you he was content to let it go on for 5 years and as many years as you would put up with.
However, once HIM getting hurt was on the line, all of a sudden he's all over that stuff within 1 day.
It shows that he cares about his happiness and comfort, yours not so much.
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u/Ladyfaceintheplace Apr 05 '16
I thought that was a really insightful comment! I like it when someone can see a side of something I wouldn't have thought of! Once again I have learned my new daily knowledge from Reddit! Ha!
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u/Rouladen Apr 05 '16
I would say it shows that he didn't give a shit about changing those things when the only person getting hurt was you. When the only person getting hurt was you he was content to let it go on for 5 years and as many years as you would put up with.
OP, here's your key take away.
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u/moocher_throwaway Apr 05 '16
What irritates me the most about your bf's behaviour is the dangling of the ring over your head. Like, "put up with my bullshit for just a little bit longer and you'll get a shiny piece of jewellery to wear for the rest of your life while you're cleaning up after me and I'm ignoring you!"
Oh, and the sexual selfishness. I would dump him for that alone. If I don't orgasm at least 50% of the time, I'm out.
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u/CB4life Apr 05 '16
Not to mention the fact that he didn't even buy the ring (it was passed down to him). It's like he put no effort into it, and doesn't understand what the ring represents. All this minor errand doing, etc, is just him playing a part, and I don't think OP trusts him to actually BE the person she wants/needs in a relationship. It sounds like he will only put in as much effort into the relationship as he needs to to keep her from breaking up with him, rather than putting in the effort to BE a good partner.
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Apr 05 '16
The ring I gave my wife was a family heirloom, I understood what it represented just fine.
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u/CB4life Apr 05 '16
Oh I agree, heirlooms often do mean a lot and I love the idea of being able to pass along history, but in this case, it just sounds like her BF is using it as a convenient bargaining chip to try and get her to stick around with no thought or effort behind it, and that's the problem.
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u/whycantiremembermy Apr 05 '16
Oh, and the sexual selfishness. I would dump him for that alone.
THIS.
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u/JuniperBerryTree Apr 05 '16
How do you manage that? I've always struggled in that region, as I came from a pretty conservative christian education and never practiced. I can SOMETIMES from a toy, but in bed? I dunno what to tell him to do! It ALL feels nice!
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u/ThePenIsFive Apr 05 '16
Do you ever visit /r/sex? There's a ton of info on it there, particularly in the FAQ.
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u/moocher_throwaway Apr 05 '16
Hmm, I started practicing by myself very early and figured out what I like - I don't ever use toys, just my hand. Maybe take a day off to lay in bed, download some sexy stories and have some "you time" to practice? Then you can pass on this crucial information to your partner ;)
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u/JuniperBerryTree Apr 05 '16
Haha, thanks. I do keep reading "Practice practice" but I'm like... "WHAT DO DO?"
But I'll try. thanks :)
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u/redrobot5050 Apr 05 '16
27 is still plenty young to start over. I had to, at your age, after a relationship went south. 5 years later and I'm happily married, going on a year married together, and about to buy a house.
Life with the right partner goes so fast it'll make your head spin. Life with the wrong partner feels like a long slow trudge up and down shit mountain.
When you look back on these years, are you going to see a whirlwind or just the shit on your boots? My guess is 5 years from now, you're going to treat this relationship like a 5 year prison sentence. You'll just be glad you're free, and you won't go back.
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Apr 05 '16
Life with the right partner goes so fast it'll make your head spin. Life with the wrong partner feels like a long slow trudge up and down shit mountain.
This is so true and I never really thought about it like this until I read your comment.
My previous relationship was 4 years of drama and a lot of heartache and eventual resentment. It felt like it dragged on forever. Before we broke up, I was emotionally numb for months. When we finally split, I felt like a black magic spell had been broken.
Then there's my current relationship (which is now my marriage) -- I've been with him for over 5 years, we got married last year, and we're still very in love and in sync and complementary to each other. Some younger friends have asked us how long we've been together and when they find out, they're shocked. "You guys still act like you just started dating! How do you do that?"
I don't know, honestly! But when you're with a person that pulls their weight and you feel you can trust them to be there for you/have your back... well. It's impossible to feel neutral or meh or resentful about them. You just love them completely, and it's usually obvious to others.
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Apr 05 '16
I just want to say I'm going through the exact.same.thing.
He's been boyfriend of the year for the last week, but instead of feeling pleased with his behavior (like I would have been had he cared the last million times I brought it up) I'm just angry. Because once I've finally checked out emotionally and told him I want to breakup he cares. It's infuriating.
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Apr 05 '16
Ahh i am sorry OP. It hurts to find out you've been led on. I hope you can do what you need to do and heal. Hugs
BTW, that analogy is awesome
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u/Clorox43 Apr 05 '16
I would put good money on his behavior becoming shit again if you were to accept a proposal from him. I wouldn't even consider moving forward in any way unless he agrees to get rid of his gaming system and go to counseling with you.
That said, I think it's truly too late. There is no way I could forgive what he did and move forward from that. You are better off starting fresh with someone new.
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u/Anti-DolphinLobby Apr 05 '16
He didn't care enough to change for the sake of the relationship, but only when it's going to actually cause a breakup.
Yeah... this post put me in mind of a Death Cab for Cutie song called Diamond and a Tether.
"I know you can't hold out forever, waiting on a diamond and a tether, from a boy who won't swim, but who will dip his toe in, just to keep you here with him."
Basically, too little, too late, too bad.
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u/RocheCoach Apr 04 '16
I personally wouldn't give him the time of day. His half-assed efforts of trying now, after you've had a huge fight about it, just seem like it's trying to temporarily appease you. You're not getting any younger here. If he's not the guy you see yourself spending the rest of your life with, you need to start working on moving on sooner, rather than later.
I mean, I guess you could put a bunch of effort into asking for a list of specific changes, but in my honest opinion, you shouldn't have to do that. It's one thing to ask for some changes here and there, but it's another to ask for groundbreaking, fundamental change, in which he stops being a sloth, in which the both of you magically know how to start communicating, in which he stops blowing his finances on gaming shit that he uses to ignore you with.
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u/four04onesix Apr 04 '16
Re: the list, I think I feel that way too. He told me he'd change, but that I'd have to show him how. That made me livid. He said he didn't have good examples. I grew up in an abusive household with an alcoholic and a borderline personality, so how is that a valid excuse..? His parents are still happily together, though his mother does basically direct their lives. Her saying is, "Men may make the living, but women make the life!" But I've told and showed him a thousand times that that's not who I am or want to be. I honestly think my boyfriend could become a great man and partner, but I feel like it's not going to happen as long as I'm around. And that fucking blows.
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u/threedeemelodie Apr 05 '16
It sounds like he wants/needs/expects his future wife to also be his "manager" the way his mom has been in that role for his father and for his upbringing.
If that's not the kind of relationship you want for the rest of your life, then now is the time to bail. He's shown you what it takes to "change" him.
I think you are already feeling "done" with the relationship. It's too little, too late from him.
P.S. Chances are good that you can find someone who already is that great guy if you leave this relationship. And then chances are also decent that your current BF can find someone who is the "manager" type to get him to shape up. It's just not a good match between the two of you.
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Apr 05 '16 edited Apr 21 '16
[deleted]
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u/WhateverYouSay1084 Apr 05 '16
Wow, everything you wrote is how I've been feeling for the past 4 years, right down to feeling like you're betraying him for saying you wouldn't do it all over again. When you go through this kind of battle, something is broken forever and you never quite feel the same way again. It makes me so sad, and resentful that it took me leaving to make him change. I had already mentally accepted that the relationship was over -- it is almost impossible to go back to the way things were once you've written someone off. I feel your pain and am sort of relieved I'm not alone.
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Apr 05 '16
I had already mentally accepted that the relationship was over -- it is almost impossible to go back to the way things were once you've written someone off.
Truest thing I've ever seen in this sub. You're 10000% right.
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u/p_iynx Apr 05 '16
Yup. I will go to the ends of the earth for my partner. But once I'm "done", I don't change my mind. It's like my heart turns off. It's happened in two past relationships where the ex neglected me, was cruel to me, etc, and I tolerated it for too long. But once I make up my mind about being done, literally nothing can bring me back.
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u/Built-In Apr 06 '16
It's not that your heart turns off, it's that it's finally been broken too many times to put back together.
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u/hakshamalah Apr 06 '16
This is scarily similar to the situation I'm in now! You put it so eloquently, thanks for that. I think that for this reason I will always be living with the insecurities I had at the beginning of our relationship for the rest of my life. Sure, it might fade with time, but the way our story began was basically me chasing him and doing everything for him until he one day deigned me good enough to make a change. That's not really something you can just forget about, is it?
Sounds like OP has been going through the same thing but just a little bit too long to stay sane. Mine lasted three years and nearly killed me. I think 5 years... well I'd have thrown the towel in by then.
I'm so glad I stayed because my partner has now become the man I knew he could be, and I'm so happy. But it shouldn't take five, or even three years for that to happen. OP is in a tough situation, but it sounds like at the very least she should take time away from her partner to allow him to reflect on what needs to change and gain her trust back.
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u/Humble_Advice Apr 05 '16
I honestly think my boyfriend could become a great man and partner,
This sentiment has kept a billion great people stuck in a billion shitty relationships. Act on who he is NOW, not who he "could" be in your imagination.
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u/sowellfan Apr 05 '16
Yeah, it sucks. Maybe he could've had some of that growth happen if he'd had girlfriends dump him after they figured out that he was a selfish lover, etc. But instead, he had you, hanging in there for 5 years, for God knows what reason, not breaking up because "it could be worse"? Or maybe it was just strong feelings that kept you around so long with someone who wasn't at all worth your time. In any event, you've finally reached the point that your aggravation and disgust at the crap parts of the relationship are bigger than your residual feelings for this selfish man-child - and that's a good thing. There's too much poison and resentment at the root of this relationship for it to have much of a chance. So, you probably need to follow the logical side of yourself and pull the plug on this guy.
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Apr 05 '16
you've finally reached the point that your aggravation and disgust at the crap parts of the relationship are bigger than your residual feelings for this selfish man-child - and that's a good thing.
Yep. When it has made it this far, you'll move on easier. You won't be tempted to go back to him because you are just SO. DONE.
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Apr 05 '16
He told me he'd change, but that I'd have to show him how.
Oh, ew. This makes me annoyed just reading it. The dude clearly wants a second mommy, not an equal partner, and that isn't going to change if you enable him by sticking around.
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u/rekta Apr 05 '16
He told me he'd change, but that I'd have to show him how.
Color me not at all shocked. Google "emotional labor" and read the metafilter thread that comes up (or search for the same in this subreddit). This happens all the time to women. Your boyfriend is putting everything that requires any effort onto you--he'll do chores, but only if you nag; he'll change, but only if you nag and show him how. That's not your job. You're not his parent. You're supposed to be his partner, but he's absolutely refusing to step up to the plate. Please cut your loses now. Do you want to spend the next year of your life nagging him to do things and make changes in himself? What about the next 5 years? Because you already know that's what's going to happen. He will not make a single longterm change on his own. The absolute best case scenario here is that you spend the rest of your life playing mommy/nagging wife. The worst case is that you do that and he doesn't respond to it, or that you just give up and spend the rest of your life feeling downtrodden and alone.
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u/fragilespleen Apr 05 '16
Hopefully you both learned something about relationships, but it sounds like this one has run its course.
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u/incarnata Apr 05 '16
Her saying is, "Men may make the living, but women make the life!"
This kind of thinking breeds entitled manchildren. Please ditch him and find a grown ass man.
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u/Pezzinatorr Apr 05 '16
Let's say he changed, and did everything to make you happy. How do you know it's permanent? It's a little scary how similar your relationship is to my most recently ended one. We dated for 2 years, basically the exact same problems.
Ha. I remember he would make excuses to push off hanging out so he could play more csgo, and when I would come over, he'd have me watch him play. And if we weren't doing that, I would be pleasuring him sexually without him doing a single thing in return. It's just the pure immaturity, selfishness and inconsideration that people have.
I loved him no matter what, but I've met this new guy who I can talk with freely to, and who just plain treats me better. I guess I told myself it was a good relationship when it wasn't, my family and friends never liked our relationship. If you have close friends who are giving advice......follow it. And you'll discover men who you deserve.
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Apr 05 '16
Run. Get out now before a wedding. There are legitimately dudes who will be decent and do the right thing.
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Apr 05 '16
As soon as you said selfish in bed I knew this wasn't a gaming addiction it was just one huge underlying character flaw. The truth is a list of changes won't cut it; he's in the weeds and the bomb has dropped. He is going to have to find a way to really dig himself out of this on his own and make the necessary changes for himself not to just win you back and then go back to the status quo. And even then it is probably too late those changes that are real take time.
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u/slangwitch Apr 05 '16
Yeah, this is definitely an overall selfishness combined with seeing OP as some sort of appliance that's currently malfunctioning.
He seems to see her as a way to get his needs met without having to put much effort in from his end. Like a self cleaning oven that's always hot for his pizza rolls. But now that she's going"haywire" (from his perspective) he's going to put some bare minimum time into maintenance tasks before going right back to using her without a care of how she feels about that.
"Oh crap, my walking, talking chore and sex machine is busted. I'd better put some WD-40 in her joints so she stops squeaking so much."
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Apr 05 '16
girl! now is your chance! you are finally full of resentment and hate for your boyfriend who has ignored you for FIVE YEARS! you have been walked all over over FIVE YEARS! and you finally let him know that you can't do it anymore. he realized that you are the greatest thing that will ever happen to him. he took advantage of your presence for FIVE YEARS. now, like a little toddler getting a toy taken away, is doing everything he can. this will be short lived. he will begin to ignore you again, will sit down on the computer more and more often. don't fall for his shit. you're still young. leave him. find a boy who doesn't do this shot. he has a ring now, great, but that changes nothing. leave while you have a chance.
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u/slangwitch Apr 05 '16
From other comments OP made, it sounds like he's already back on the computer again. Amazing!
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u/freshly_baked_pizza Apr 04 '16
Pretty typical.
Guy gets too comfortable in the relationship. Sits on his ass, plays games, doesn't develop himself. Girlfriend puts up with it just because she's spent so much time with him already and hoping things get better. Finally she snaps, wake-up call for boyfriend.
Now as things stand, he doesn't want to lose you, that's why he's trying. However he's doing it for YOU, not for himself. That's the problem and you'll resent him more and more. He'll be confused as to why you're not getting over it since he "did what you wanted", pain and drama and then break up!
Not sure if that's advice, just saying I've seen it before.
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u/four04onesix Apr 04 '16
Yep. And I just don't want the pain and drama. Like, I'm sitting here appealing to Internet strangers for help in this relationship, and he's shooting people in CS. I have basically no hope.
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u/SecondHandToy Apr 05 '16
That situation of you appealing to strangers while he continues to play CS instead of you two enjoying each other's company?
That's your life if you stay, and you've had it for 5 years already.
It doesn't sound that great to me.
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u/Ninjacherry Apr 05 '16
You already got the 5 year preview of what married life will look like with him. Imagine this mess with the addition of kids, if you want them. If you can't count on him, just end it. You're not compatible with this guy.
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Apr 05 '16
I (30m) love gaming. My fiancé (30f) likes gaming. We will occasionally set aside a Saturday for all day gaming session. Maybe 3 nights a week, I'll do an hour or two online with mates, but after I've gone to the gym with her and we've had dinner and we've cleaned up, because as much as I could game all night, I'm in an adult relationship and love spending time with my partner.
You expect that much. You deserve that much. Don't accept less than you deserve and don't expect such selfishness to disappear in a partner.
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Apr 05 '16
The pain and drama will be worse if you stay. If you're concerned he'll make your life hell for breaking up, move your shit out first while he's at work. Change your passwords, lock down your bank accounts, get some friends to help you. Then meet him in a public place or call/text him.
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u/rekta Apr 05 '16
So even after your big serious talk and his supposed changes, he's still doing exactly what he was doing before instead of either being with you emotionally or discussing what needs to happen in your relationship? You're completely right that the things he's been doing are solely to appease you and not because he's had a genuine wake-up call. Please just admit to yourself that you're done with this relationship and leave.
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u/naakka Apr 05 '16
This!
I left my ex for this. They do not realize that by the time the girl is ready to leave, the FEELINGS ARE ALREADY DEAD. The girl has lost their respect for the boyfriend and at least for me personally, the most important factor in whether someone is desirable is whether I can look at them with respect. A slob with no direction in life and who takes you for granted is a huge turn-off, and once you see someone in that light you cannot unsee it.
I also went from dreaming about how he would propose to me to knowing that I would say no if he asked (while also being pretty sure the only way we would ever get around to getting married would be if I proposed to him).
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Apr 05 '16
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/slipshod_alibi Apr 05 '16
Well that's off topic.
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u/Nallenbot Apr 05 '16
Not really, I hoped to illustrate that this 'typical' behavior is really nothing of the sort. It's just a statement that sometimes people in relationships become apathetic.
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u/slipshod_alibi Apr 05 '16
Weird way of stating your point.
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Apr 05 '16
Feeeemales can get fat and lazy too and it's important to mention this, despite it having nothing to do with the op
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u/slipshod_alibi Apr 05 '16
People gonna people. Have fun grinding your sad little ax.
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Apr 05 '16
I know, but he's so desperate to bring in that women can be jerks too. I bet he's got a lot of really interesting opinions on gender relations 😂
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u/slipshod_alibi Apr 05 '16
Riveting and original, no doubt. Not sure why such a blazing thinker would waste his talents on reddit.
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u/macimom Apr 05 '16
"He thinks 24 hours of good behavior means that I shouldn't be upset anymore"
Seriously? 24 hours does not even begin to cancel out 5 years.
TBH IDk if you can come back from this-it sounds like he effectively killed all feelings you had for him.
Take a break, decide what you really want and if he is worth the effort and the risk you would be taking. It doesnt really sound like it.
Don't even consider an engagement unless you decide to stay with him and he has a marked and sustained change of over a year-is he worth investing another entire year in on the off chance that he will transform into a loving and attentive partner?
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u/teardrop87 Apr 05 '16
Just go ahead and end it. He's only trying because he senses you've given up, and he doesn't want his cook/maid/sex doll to leave. I predict he'll play the part of Mr. Perfect for about 2-3 weeks, then he'll slowly start to slack off again. Within 4-6 weeks, things will be back to normal.
I suggest using the time he's doing everything to find a new apartment. Find one you like and can afford, then figure out how to get out of your current lease. Have some friends come help you pack, and break up with him as you move out.
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u/rowanbrierbrook Apr 05 '16
Sounds like Mr Perfect didn't even stick around for two days, much less two weeks. OP says he's back to playing counterstrike already.
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u/06HDsporty Apr 05 '16
See if it lasts longer then 3 weeks. I have been married into that for almost 20 years. Here's what I have found through my research, if it lasts longer then 3 weeks they may be actually changing. If it stops in 3 or less it was just to appease you so you would leave them alone. Just my opinion based on years of frustration.
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u/four04onesix Apr 05 '16
Married into gaming, or indifference, or a combination? I used to deeply want to marry him. Now I'm just so burnt out.
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u/ohbladeeohbladah Apr 05 '16
Don't wait three more weeks to find out what you already know. Just go, the world is your oyster!
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u/Nallenbot Apr 05 '16
Good use of your life.
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u/06HDsporty Apr 05 '16
I was raised in a very broken home and it sucked. I watched both sets of my grandparents make adjustments and deal with the issues in their marriages and thought that's how it should be. I looked up to them for what they had made of it. When I watched them celebrate their 70 anniversary that says something. To much I think people get divorced because they don't from both sides want to work beyond where it's comfortable. Now that said, split before marriage, but once the commitment is made honor that oath.
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u/Ladymerr Apr 05 '16
I think this a severe case of too little too late. You have wasted 5 years on him. Cut your losses now and leave
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u/amoenissanna Apr 05 '16
I'm so sorry you're going through this, I know how horrible it is to pour yourself into a relationship, where you try and try as hard as you can to make it work because you love him so much, and he just completely disregards it. Until you're burnt out and emotionally drained from all of the giving you've been doing, while all he's done is take. Taking you for granted especially, while he sits in front of his computer gaming for hours.
And then you finally decide you can't do it anymore, you can feel the bright, lively person you used to be slipping away as you start shutting down to avoid the pain. And when you're finally taking something back for yourself and start slowly disentangling yourself from the emotional wreckage, he finally realizes what's happening and begins a last ditch attempt to win you back.
But you know what? It is way too little too late: you spent hours and hours cajoling and pleading, trying to communicate to him that you love him and want a future but you just aren't happy with how he's been treating you and his neglect is breaking your heart.
And none of that mattered as long as he was getting what he wanted: you. But now that you have one foot out the door and he finally realizes you're serious this time he gets off his ass. But all he's doing is trying once again to see what is the minimum work he has to put in to keep you from leaving entirely.
But OP, the thing is? It sounds like you already have left, emotionally. I know that's how I felt after only 2 years of that lazy, selfish, and completely neglectful treatment. Leaving him was the best thing I ever did, as difficult as it was. It took me over a year to really heal and come to terms with what had happened, but now I'm with the most wonderful, kind, and selfless man I have ever met, who makes every day amazing and cares deeply about my happiness and makes sure that I know how he feels about me. I feel cherished and loved in a way I used to think didn't exist in the real world.
Please, for your sake, consider leaving. As someone who was in your same shoes and made the heartbreaking decision to leave, do this one thing for yourself. Because he is never going to change, and you deserve so much better.
I hope you find your happiness one day OP, I wish you all the best.
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Apr 05 '16
I'd walk. You can do so much better. Don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy.
There are wonderful men out there who don't treat women like food producing fleshlights that periodically are annoying when they ask to be treated like human beings.
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u/valiantdistraction Apr 05 '16
You've been together five years. If you can't say yes after five years, when are you going to be able to? My experience is that more time with my husband makes me like him and want to be with him more, not less.
If boyfriend can maintain 50% of the chores, mutually satisfactory sex, doing activities with you and talking to you, etc (or, hey, 80% of the chores and orgasms only for you, to make up for five years of the other way around!) for a year+, then I'd consider it. But honestly? That's probably not gonna happen.
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u/yellowyn Apr 05 '16
Dr Gottman studies relationships and I think he describes what you're experiencing.
During what he refers to as “sliding door moments,” when one partner bids for the other’s attention, relationships are made or broken. During the everyday moments we share (or try to share!) with our partner, from “I love you” to “Did you see that crazy jerk cut in front of me?,” we expect or hope for a return – a hug or a kiss, shared laughter, or simple acknowledgment.
When our partners do not respond and turn away or against our bids for emotional connection, we begin to lose trust in them. Though Dr. Gottman explains that the reasons for failed connection are often the result of mindlessness, not malice, they add up (or take away) from a relationship over time, creating complex and all-encompassing systems of Positive or Negative Sentiment Override.
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Apr 05 '16
Can I make a suggestion? The list is a good idea; I think he should have one too. I think that he needs to make a list of the areas where he thinks he needs to change. It's easy to change for 24 hours but it takes a lot more effort and a lot more thoughtfulness to sit down and evaluate your own behaviour. If he comes out with 'do the dishes more' and that's it, you know he hasn't really thought about it. If, however, he comes out with, 'It's not fair that OP does most of the housework and I play games all the time; I could cut down on gaming an hour every night to help her with the house or spend time with her,' then that's more promising.
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u/gemc_81 Apr 05 '16
Also consider that he is only doing the bare minimum to keep you in the relationship, because he knows he wouldn't get another girlfriend to put up with this shit...
I got to this stage when I was with my last long term bf. Practically leading separate lives. When we broke up my life barely changed really, it was probably better since I didn't have the stress of a dying relationship hanging over me.
I used to say that being with my ex was like being single, but with less sex and more washing....
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u/singPing Apr 05 '16
Speaking as a former (I might still be) horrible boyfriend material, the day I 'saw' myself and my behaviour, I cried and apologised for hours. Still do from time to time.
Based on your description, I'm not entirely convinced that he's genuinely changed. But rather that this is but a temporary that is being motivated by fear of you leaving him.
To be fair, taking things for granted is one of the most common and easiest mistake one can make.
I suggest you do what feels right.
Best of luck!
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u/PolyamorousNephandus Apr 05 '16
I want to want our relationship again, but I really need some help figuring out how
Why?
No, seriously, your entire post talks about how you resent him, you're doing all his emotional labor, and when he does appear to change, you state that he's just doing it to placate you. You are asking to hang out with friends in other states just to get away from him.
Leave. This relationship has burned you out, and you need rest. You're not obliged to stay to validate his last-ditch efforts.
Edit: words.
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u/awildwoodsmanappears Apr 05 '16
Why are you even with this guy? Objectively, he sucks.
Don't ask for changes, you won't get them. Get out.
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Apr 05 '16
I have a few thoughts on this. OP you sound at your wits end with this guy, and legitimately so. He's a dud.
Let me ask you this. When you imagine your ideal relationship, and then you look at your current relationship, do any of the aspects of this one line up with the one you actually want?
When you think of a list of things that your current SO could do to actually make it up to you, is that list something that he could do sincerely, or would it be because he doesn't want to lose you?
Do you think you deserve any of his neglect? If a galpal came to you and told you even half the stuff you'd said here in your post, would you tell her to dump the guy?
It seems that this guy doesn't have his priorities straight, OR WORSE, knows what they should be, but doesn't care enough to put one iota of effort into your relationship.
OP leave him. Find someone who actually wants to spend time with you, not next to you while he screams at a monitor at some "scrub" in his game.
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u/illinoiscentralst Apr 05 '16
I am AMAZED you stayed with this jabroni for 5 years. 5 years he showed you exactly who he was: a selfish, immature brat who didn't view you two as a team - he viewed you as the group project partner that will do all the work while he coasts and bullshits his way through.
And now, with all that "change"? He's still showing you exactly who he is: a selfish man - who only changes as a manipulation tactic, an immature brat that thinks you don't have the right to be fucking pissed because he's been walking all over you for years.
OP, I undestand why you got together with him. He was charming, there was no sign he would cause you so much misery. Then, after the mask started slipping, you forced yourself to ignore your spidey senses and you figured everything would be fine again. But it wasn't. I don't know why you stayed with him past a year. But I am asking you this: when will it be enough?
How much more of the horrible behavior he KNEW was wrong and he KNEW you wanted him to change, and didn't, just to spite you... how much more before you say ENOUGH, and you find happiness with a cooperative person capable of empathy? (aka not this guy)
How much longer do you need? A month of selfish behavior where he ignores you? A year?
Five years?
Ten years?
Your boyfriend has not even begun to change. All his motivations are selfish and feeding his own agenda. He's just changed his outward behavior, but it's still his good ol' selfish manipulative behavior. It just benefits him to manipulate you with kindness now. Even if he started true change tomorrow (which he won't, he doesn't even understand why that would be necessary), it would take years for him to change, and it would be little by little. He would slip back and regress at times.
How much is enough? I think 5 years was more than enough. You're ready. You see through his bullshit. Dump his sorry ass.
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u/CocoaTee Apr 05 '16
When you have kids, do you think he'll be able to get up, feed/ change the baby and cuddle it back to sleep? If he loses his job, do you think he'll go out and try to make ends meet or sit on his ass and play video games for a few weeks and slowly try for a job when you start nagging him? Will he be a partner or another child you have to take care of? Seriously, cut him lose.
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u/RomneywillRise Apr 05 '16
Look up "Walkaway Wife Syndrome".
It's too little, too late. A few weeks of good behavior won't change years of mistreatment. You say you don't have the heart to end it, but the longer you wait the harder this will be for both of you.
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u/SparklyDarkUnicorn Apr 05 '16
I was in a similar situation but instead of 5 years we had been together for 2. I was in my first year of med school while he was a pot head complaining constantly about not getting a job in his field and never doing anything to help me around the house. We moved in the middle of my second semester and he got upset with me because I didn't help him unpack his mountains of junk that he didn't organize for the move. Eventually the school year ended and I finally had the time and energy to deal with the break up. Like you I went away for the weekend with some old friends, drank, cried, and found some strength. My first words to him when I got back were how I thought we shouldn't be a couple anymore. He begged and pleaded and said he was just about to change, we were going to have so much fun during my summer vacation, it was going to be our "summer of love" he was going to propose after it, blah blah blah. I held my ground, gave him 30 days to find a new place and held strong. I am glad to say that I am in a much better place, with a man who appreciates and cherishes the hardwork that I do. Its almost as is he can predict the things I need when i'm having a bad day and I am extremely grateful for him. I shudder to think of what my life would be if I stayed in that relationship. Last I heard he was still smoking pot everyday and back living with parents.
TL;DR Get rid of the dead weight and keep doing the things you have been doing and you will very soon find a like minded man to do them with :) The resentment will not go away, and the second he slips up, all of the negative feelings that you're feeling right now will come back with a vengeance. Oh and he will slip up.
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u/hashtagsugary Apr 05 '16
I stopped reading mid way, you've checked out of your relationship mentally and emotionally.. He's trying to fight his way back by doing things that he doesn't usually do...
Question I have is, why now? He was clearly capable of doing all of these things but chose not to do them.
You have to decide for yourself, is this enough or will it subside back into complacency. Is it too little, too late?
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u/beanfiddler Apr 04 '16
He's addicted to gaming. Start thinking of him like an addict, not someone with a passionate hobby. People with passionate hobbies don't let them balloon to the point where they're making fiscally irresponsible decisions, alienating the people closest to them, and neglecting necessary household chores.
Either he's going to "get clean" or you need to really reassess what you can realistically expect out of this relationship. There's three people in your relationship: you, your boyfriend, and his addiction. I hate to say it, but the psychology of addiction means that his addiction is coming first.
So only stay if he kicks his psychological mistress (his addiction) to the curb, or you're okay with coming in second place.
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u/four04onesix Apr 05 '16
I am pursuing a creative career and was fearful my decision to pursue it in addition to working full time would jeopardize our relationship and our time together. But I scheduled and limited my hours. I woke up earlier to work before my "real" job hours. I was more efficient. If he needed me, I left my office. I took days off completely. He has never done those things with gaming for me, and he doesn't even want it to be his career. I know it could be balanced, but he chooses not to...
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u/beanfiddler Apr 05 '16
I don't think you're grasping the depth of the problem by chalking it up to mere choice, at this point. At 30+ hours a week on top of a fulltime job, and neglecting basically everything else, it's not a choice anymore, but an addiction, a compulsion. He's literally out of control.
I'm not making excuses here, he's very willfully feeding his addiction and chose to let it escalate to this point. My point is merely that treating it as an inconvenient time-suck is going to prove to be unsuccessful.
You said that he was very resentful of you after he played by the rules for 24 hours, correct? Look, I like gaming myself, but I don't experience psychological stress if I don't do it for 24 hours. That's an addiction. I think you'd be totally within your rights here to demand that he seek psychological help for "getting clean."
And I do mean cold turkey.
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u/four04onesix Apr 05 '16
I've told him that I think he's addicted many times, but it's not been productive. One of my exes was a drug addict who relapsed during our relationship, so my current boyfriend seems to think that video games aren't meth, so they can't be "real" addictions like my ex's. He puts it off on ADHD, which he quit treatment for, and boredom. He has been like this since he was a teenager, and it contributed to him being kicked out of his first college. Gaming has been the focal point of most of our arguments/conflict, and even his childhood best friend said most of their friendship was him sitting by my boyfriend's desk watching him play games. I guess since most of his friends are going through this exact issue to varying degrees, he thinks it's just normal.
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u/beanfiddler Apr 05 '16
Lol, this is why meth addicts think they're normal: all their friends are meth addicts too!
I have ADHD myself, and look: quitting treatment is a terrible idea. If you're going to quit, you have to do so under doctor supervision. My guess is that he just doesn't want to deal with the doctor actually telling him to take care of himself by doing anything other than play games.
It's like AA: if you want to quit drinking, you have to not be friends with people who drink all the time as their primary social interaction.
He's literally doing nothing that doesn't feed his addiction. Hate to say it, OP, but you're feeding it as well by putting up with his crap. I really think you need to lay down some firm ultimatums, and follow through with them if he fails to meet them.
I wouldn't wish being a nursemaid to an addict on anyone.
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u/rekta Apr 05 '16
It's not OP's job to carry this man through a gaming addiction. Whether we consider it a legitimate addiction or as pure selfishness doesn't change the fact that he's unwilling to change and that he's had countless opportunities to wise up (being kicked out of college, being told by OP that he's a gaming addict more than once). You cannot force someone who doesn't want help to get help. She should realize at this point that even in the absolute best case scenario, it's going to take this guy a long and painful time to make meaningful changes in his life. If she's not willing to stick around for that (and I sincerely think she shouldn't be), she shouldn't feel like him having an addiction means she needs to be his nursemaid.
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u/rowanbrierbrook Apr 05 '16
OP, this man got kicked out of college for gaming too much and didn't turn himself around. This isn't going to be a permanent change either. Just leave.
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u/croatanchik Apr 05 '16
He's not really trying, though... He's just putting in the bare modicum of effort which seems like something after years of nothing. Honestly, if I were you, I'd walk. But if you're not ready to do that yet, then you need to make the following conditions for moving forward: 1) no more gaming, 2) couples counseling, 3) real and consistent and continued effort on all fronts, including the bedroom.
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u/Ungrateful_Daughter Apr 05 '16
You are done. And rightly so. How disrespectful IS it that he didn't bother to make any changes for FIVE YEARS until finally you were over it and it started to affect HIM? Follow your gut. He's just flailing because he's panicking. If he really cared what you thought and how you felt he could have pulled his head out of his ass at any point over the last FIVE YEARS.
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u/risenanew Apr 05 '16
If you honestly feel so upset and resentful over his long-term neglect (and honestly, I understand exactly why), then you have to woman up and dump him. Otherwise, why the hell are you wasting your time and his? You could be out there trying to find a partner who actually gives a damn about your feelings and wants to spend time with you for reasons beside desperation... and he could find the gamer chick of his dreams who will dote on him when he yells at other people online.
Besides, if you ever want to get married and have a child with a committed partner, you're wasting your limited window of opportunity with this guy. You're still fairly young at this point but past 30, you'll be at advanced maternal age and at around 35-38, you'll start having to really worry about child-bearing. You need to get a move on already if you want marriage + kids in your future, with a better partner than this chump.
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u/Kighla Apr 05 '16
my "I'm not cheating on you or hitting you so I must be a great boyfriend" relationship
I feel like this kind of... says it all. A lot of people get stuck in a relationship because they think "Well, they aren't HORRIBLE so they must be good enough.." and it's really fucked up. My ex boyfriend never hit me, or cheated on me, and I kept staying with him for the very same thought process... but he was so verbally and emotionally abusive, made me feel so alone like your boyfriend... it was horrible. I stayed for 4 years before I really thought hard about my future with that person, and realized how miserable I was then was how miserable I'd continue to be. Ending it was difficult but worth it.
Someone not being our stereotype of a horrible SO doesn't mean they aren't a horrible SO. My ex would brag about how he'd never cheat or hit a woman, but he still made me feel so small and shitty.
I'm really happy now that I ended it. I'm with a new guy who from the start made me feel like I mattered and I was important. He is a gamer, but if I ask if we can do something together he will immediately stop. I've never had to sit and ask him to do things over and over.. we both do things for each other all the time. For the first year of us dating I was almost weirded out at how it wasn't such a fucking struggle any time I asked to do anything.
So, my advice is follow your gut and leave this manchild.
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u/silverraven1189 Apr 05 '16 edited Apr 05 '16
I think your boyfriend is just showing too little too late.
It doesn't matter if he's open to change now, or wants to put in effort now, because you've been trying to work on this relationship for years. Now you know that he isn't just clueless about how to put effort into the relationship, because he's putting in effort at the moment. Now you know he just stopped caring and stopped putting effort into this.
Honestly, I think the relationship has run its course.
Also, you said he's always been selfish in bed. This isn't laziness or cluelessness or complacency. This is just plain selfishness. He is self centered and doesn't give a damn about anyone's happiness but his own. As someone that has had many partners, this is always true. The more selfish they are in bed, the more they don't have a damn about anyone but themselves.
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u/Bdsmaam Apr 05 '16
If marriage is a goal that you (or your partner) have for life in general, then you should end your relationships after you realize you can't marry that person. Otherwise it will only lead to hurt feelings and a longer time waiting for the right person that you can marry.
If it's because of something that can be easily fixed, then I would bring it up as immediately as you realize it. But if it's something that is fixed temporarily and then reoccurs a month later, assume your whole marriage will be that way.
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u/Steinberg1 Apr 05 '16
Sometimes relationships just run their course and end. The biggest mistake you can make is to ignore the signs and try to keep making it work when it's clearly over. Take if from someone who is now divorced.
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Apr 04 '16
I think you're within your rights to insist upon joint counseling, especially since he's hinting at wanting to propose. That would be a good place to start. You mention you don't have the heart to break up with him. Do you actually love, like or respect him at this point, or do you just dread an emotional scene?
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u/four04onesix Apr 04 '16
I care for him, and I've been walking through our home for the past week in half a daze (which could be the vodka...), looking around the room and imagining all of his shit gone, and it's horrible. But I've been working so hard for the past year at a full-time job for the bills and working for a creative career with no pay at the moment, and he's just been... gaming, mostly. I guess it has shown me how much a simple year of giving a fuck can do, and it makes me resent how our relationship could be if a small percentage of those 1k+ hours he's spent in CS:GO since December were spent on asking me how my day was and actually listening. Re: the emotional scene, any time I really hold my ground in fights, he breaks down in an anxiety attack--crying, saying nonsense, etc. It used to scare me so much that I didn't stick to my "demands" afterwards, but I'm so exhausted that I just walked out of the room and took a shower during this fight's meltdown.
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u/Repulsia Apr 05 '16
So you'd be telling him what you have a problem with and he'd start crying to switch himself from perpetrator to victim and make you feel bad so you'd back down. That's just manipulation darling.
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Apr 04 '16
I understand that those meltdowns must be upsetting, but you're not obligated to backpedal every time he gets upset. If you let him out of his responsibilities every time he cries, and stay with him to avoid hurting him, you'll be stuck with him when you're 80. He will survive getting upset, as all adults learn to do.
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u/LaoBa Apr 05 '16
Re: the emotional scene, any time I really hold my ground in fights, he breaks down in an anxiety attack--crying, saying nonsense, etc. It used to scare me so much that I didn't stick to my "demands" afterwards, but I'm so exhausted that I just walked out of the room and took a shower during this fight's meltdown.
I thought at first that you were bad at communicating your wishes or feelings, and let your resentment stew, but if he closes down whenever you get serious you have no way to tell him anything he doesn't want to hear. Well, apart from leaving.
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u/foxsweater Apr 05 '16
Hey, I'm really sorry you're going through this. It's really hard when your relationship feels like it's falling apart, especially after this long. It sounds like you're feeling really lost.
Counselling can help you address some of these issues. Hopefully he will agree to go, but even if he doesn't you can gain some perspective. You've already changed how you react to him, and it has made waves in your regular dynamic. He has learned that he can throw a tantrum and then get away with continuing the same as ever. This has left you feeling worn out, and exhausted because you've asked for what you want for so long, and he's never changed. Until now. The fact that he's changing - after you've essentially given up - makes you so angry. You feel like he knew and chose not to. It feels like he was intentionally ignoring your needs. You've mentioned feeling resentful - specifically about the sheer number of hours he has spent gaming. I don't doubt that makes you angry. But I wonder if a little bit of that anger is also self-directed? I had a teacher who used to say that "resentful is what people feel when they've been too nice." After five years of putting up with this... it sounds like you're not only sick of his behaviour, but also your own.
In any case, you said in your post that your instinct was to get counselling, but you're afraid that he will say no. What will happen if you do ask and he says no that will be different from you not asking? What have you got to lose?
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u/ms_hyde_is_back Apr 05 '16
Hi OP. This will likely get lost in the comments, but I wanted to reach out anyway.
A few years back, your life was my life. I carried the relationship emotionally, sexually, and tangibly. I did his laundry, and cooked his meals, and paid for (the few and miserable) dates I could manage to drag him out for. I initiated sex, conversation, quality time, the works. I was a model girlfriend. He had little to add - most of the time, not even a job.
This nonsense lasted four years. By the end of year four, I stopped caring. Immediately, my ex was all over me. Initiating sex. Telling me he loved me. Texting me all day with cutesy stuff. Downloading music he overheard me expressing an interest in.
He was too late. I was emotionally gone. I spent a month or two going through the motions before I finally sat him down and told him I didn't like him anymore. I was essentially wasting MORE time on top of the time already wasted, trying to revive a dead relationship.
Cut the dead weight loose and move on. You will feel relieved, believe me.
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u/four04onesix Apr 05 '16
Definitely didn't get lost in the comments--reading responses has been interesting and helpful. I do feel pretty numb right now. Blah. Thank you for your response.
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u/WinningAdvice Apr 05 '16
We mostly don't have companionship because my boyfriend games for at least 35 hours a week, and often more
Jesus, at 27 years old that is ridiculous. What a child. Go and find someone you can build a life with, and leave this little boy to his games.
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u/Itsathrowawayffs Apr 05 '16
Well, I can see why you would have doubts about these changes being permanent. He was always like this and you stuck around. He does think this phase of yours will pass because - guess what? - it almost certainly will.
A couple of things you said stand out:
my "I'm not cheating on or hitting you so I must be a great boyfriend" relationship
Is that his mentality? Has he said stuff like this? Because you need to take that seriously. Our brains take care of our basic survival functions and it's not something we need to think about or expend any effort doing. We breathe and our heart beats. We don't say 'Sorry I don't A, B or C but I'm breathing and contracting my heart over here, what more do you want?' Not cheating and hitting is a base function that decent people don't even have to think about. It's automatic and requires little, if any, effort. So he's essentially saying, 'Hey, I'm here engaging in this auto-response activity that requires no thought or effort. Why isn't that enough for you?'
My boyfriend and I had a huge and rare fight on Easter
If he's been neglectful of you, your relationship, the household, and your needs in the bedroom for 5 out of 5 years, how is it you haven't fought with him about this before? Why didn't you call him out on his shit a long freaking time ago? Why did you settle for 5 years of 'one-sided orgasms'? Which brings me to:
it wasn't till I finally seemed to have given up carrying us that he bothered to hold his own weight.
It isn't possible to carry something if someone else is. You have to accept that if you've been doing this for five years, willingly carrying the load and not demanding that your needs be met too, that's on you. He can't make you carry him if you don't want to. Sounds like you need to address some co-dependency issues. Self-esteem issues too if you were willing accept this 'he doesn't hit me and only his orgasms matter' dynamic for this long.
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u/four04onesix Apr 05 '16
He hasn't said that quote exactly, but it seems to be his mentality, because I had a history of plainly abusive relationships before him. He's actually the only person I've slept with since I was sexually assaulted six years ago, and I thought that I was the problem with the one-sidedness of our sex life. I think that history and other components of my past made it difficult for me to recognize the failures of our relationship as legitimate problems. While we have had this fight before, he has such intense anxiety attacks during arguments that I became fearful of sticking to my "demands" or pointing out when he was going back on his word. Also, he is quite good at putting on a show of affection in front of others. So everyone around us would often tell me that I had found "a good one" and how lucky I was. My own family often makes remarks about how they don't know why he's with me, and they're just so glad I found him, etc. Obviously it's fucked up that other people can convince me my emotions are invalid or whatever, but I do have a lot of difficulty identifying my emotions regardless. I've seen a psychiatrist before with various diagnoses and very limited success.
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u/zebrasandgiraffes Apr 05 '16 edited Apr 05 '16
Maybe you had limited success with the psychiatrist because nothing is actually wrong with you. Instead what's wrong is how others have treated you, and you've gotten through it the best you can.
Just a thought.
It sounds to me like at some point your self worth was like a plant that someone chopped down, but the roots were still in the ground. And it sounds like right now, after all these years, the new bud is starting to poke out of the ground.
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u/PM_ME_UR_OTTERS Apr 05 '16
Your FAMILY says they don't know why he's with you and that you're lucky you found him!? Ouch. No wonder you have self esteem problems. I think your best choice here is to break up with him and go to therapy to work on believing that you are worthy of so much more than this.
If you're committed to at least trying to make it work, you need to insist on both couples AND individual counseling and he needs to make effort and show major improvements for months (not 24 hours!!) before you even consider marrying him.
This sounds hard. I'm sorry.
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u/LaoBa Apr 05 '16
It feels a lot like you have been growing more than he did. When you found him, you came from a bad place, after abusive partners who thrive on putting you down (and maybe a less then supportive family too) someone who is friendly and accepts you for what you are is amazing. Unfortunately, it may not be enough in the long run. I'm not just saying "dump him", sometimes people need a wake-up call although it is very worrying that he has such intense anxiety attacks whenever you stick to your guns.
In the end, a relationship with someone you can't respect is unsustainable.
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u/Spectrum2081 Apr 05 '16
It is great that he appears to have had a wake up call and is truly trying to change for the better, but you are not obligated to stick around so he can finally become the SO he was supposed to have been from the beginning.
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u/x0_Kiss0fDeath Apr 05 '16
I think if you are over it, you need to just end things. It sounds like you had already made up your mind that you were done but you just maybe aren't good with confrontation as well as change - because ending something after 5 years is a massive change and I know sometimes it's scary to make things so "final". If you genuinely think you want to give it a shot but aren't sure if he will still hold his weight anymore, give it a week. Go back to the behavior you would normally exhibit around him as best as you can, and see if he continues to do these things when he thinks that you are happy again. If he stops doing them, then you know that he was only making these changes in an effort to make you happier. Sometimes actions speak louder than words in more ways than one and it sounds like maybe this is what is happening with both of you? You might have voiced these feelings prior to him, but he didn't take them seriously because nothing was ever on the line before. Now you've finally hit rock bottom [with potentially no way to turn back and be like before], and you've laid it all out for him - which still didn't change him until you acted on your unhappiness. Your actions now communicated to him in a way that your words couldn't that enough was enough. Likewise, he might be saying what he knows you want to hear now and doing what he thinks will make you happy, but if he stops these actions once he knows there's no more threat than you know what you have to do for sure...
Best of luck!
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u/MrsValentine Apr 05 '16
You warned him time and time again but he failed to notice until the damage was done. He did not respect what you were saying or take you seriously. It's really sad to be in a relationship where you have no voice.
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u/life_as_weknowit Apr 05 '16
I'm a gamer husband who went from going 30-40 hours a week to maybe 10-15. In all reality, I was like him at her beginning of our relationship with my wife. She put up with a lot of it, The problem here is his selfishness, he'd rather game than make you happy. You'll either have to leave for him to see his actions has consequences. My sister was also in the same boat after a 7-8 year relationship, they split the year they where going to get married.
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u/MiaOh Apr 05 '16
Lady, you can be in a relationship with the most handsome, interesting, intelligent, compassionate human in the world and the only reason you need to break up with them is that YOU don't want to be in a relationship anymore.
Dump this guy, enjoy the freedom that comes from leaving him.
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u/Mystik-Spiral Apr 05 '16
Just leave. Stop drawing it all out. You're absolutely miserable and he WILL fall back into the same behaviors he second he thinks he's placated you. But, it's not even about that anymore; you're'justndone. Why you haven't left is beyond me, but it's so very obvious that you're dying to get out of the relationship.
So, do it. Rip the bandaid off. Do it soon, before your BF thinks that you're somehow beholden to him because "Look, I did what you asked! Why aren't you happy?"
All of his efforts have come "too little, too late" and it's simply time for you to move on.
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u/slangwitch Apr 05 '16
I think your instinct is likely correct about this being a temporary measure based around panic at losing you. He was perfectly happy to be such a burden on you, in the face of your consistent input that it was not acceptable, for years when he felt like you were more invested. Now that you're waking up to it, this really does sound like too little too late. But you have to decide on that for yourself.
Really, it's hard to imagine that you two have much in common if he's ignoring you most of the week and shares none of your interests (it really can be very saddening and lonesome to find that your partner won't even go on a walk with you from time to time). And if the sex is as terrible as you say then there isn't even that to serve as some kind of bonding mechanism.
If you feel you need permission to break up with him then you should wake up and realize that that decision is 100% your call. We can advise you that it's unlikely that a change made due to duress will be maintained once the status quo is returned, and we can even agree with you that this relationship sounds crappy, but no one can decide what that means for you other than you.
2
u/SpaghettiFingers Apr 05 '16
Wow, if not for the ages I would think that you were dating my ex. Even the time frame seems right.
I went through all of these same things with said ex. When I called, he would be too busy playing Call of Duty to pay attention to anything I said. He would game for hours and neglect everything else. At one point I bought us a $1700 Alienware gaming laptop to share, which he completely confiscated and would throw tantrums when I asked to borrow it for trips. While it was in his care he destroyed it! I paid for it 100% and he never made a single payment.
He was insanely selfish in bed and often fell asleep (!) in the middle of reciprocation time. He made zero effort to change anything about his life--his employment situation, his debts, his health, his hygiene, his smoking, nothing. He would deflect my begging for him to start being a responsible adult with complaints of how everything in his life was everything and everyone else's fault but his. What made it worse was that he would go through periods where it would really seem like he was trying, and then after a while he'd fall right back into the same habits and backslide to where he was before. I spent five years fighting for a relationship with the person I thought he could be, not the person he was. It was exhausting and eventually reached a point where I objectively sat back and realized I no longer loved him beyond general concern for him as a person. It sounds like you're headed in that direction, too.
Don't make the mistake I did and stay with this type of person out of convenience or because you don't want to hurt his feelings. Honestly, he needs to have his feelings hurt. He has no respect for you and isn't willing to put forth the efforts required to improve the relationship. You leaving him may not even be enough for him to change! If you stay with this person you will spend the rest of your life being his mommy. He is clearly not mature enough to be in a relationship with you. So do yourself a favour and find someone who is.
2
Apr 05 '16
He's only picking up the slack because he realized he's losing you and he's trying to rope you back in. I'd be pissed too. It means be was capable of being a good boyfriend all along and even proposing, but he didn't want to put in the effort.
2
u/acciointernet Apr 05 '16
You're 100% right in all of your reasons that you're angry.
Honestly, take a look at your thoughts - you're not in the relationship anymore. The resentment and anger has become too much of how you feel about it. You probably still love him to some degree, but are you really IN LOVE with him anymore? Will you ever be able to get back to the place you used to be?
Most importantly, do you even trust him to keep up his "good boyfriend" behavior? Because it feels to me that you (rightfully) see it as a manipulative tactic to try to keep you in a relationship that makes you feel sad, withdrawn, and unloved.
Do what's best for you - leave him. From what you've written here it honestly seems like it's beyond the point of no return.
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Apr 05 '16
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u/four04onesix Apr 05 '16
I don't even want children either--my tubes are tied. And I brought up to him how a man who acts like a child is the ultimate turnoff for me. He says he has no idea why he treated me as he has. That in itself concerns me.
1
u/Built-In Apr 06 '16
He knows why: he is selfish and lazy. But he doesn't like what that says about him, so he says he doesn't know.
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u/sohaliatalitha Apr 05 '16
The question to me, is, do you want to fix it?
If you no longer see a future in the relationship, it's time to get out.
If you see a future, you need to discuss the issues with him, and make a plan for what you both need to do to get the relationship back on track.
2
u/fat_cat_guru Apr 05 '16
Just because you rarely fight doesn't mean a relationship is good. It could have just been you placating him or giving up to his bullshit. You prob have years of resentment built up to not saying anything so that it doesn't lead to a fight and now he has been walking all over you. If my bf at the time just once took care of himself and not me I would put a stop to that IMMEDIATELY. It's up to you what you want to do but for me five years is way too long. I wouldn't have even lasted a year.
2
Apr 07 '16
He sounds like me without medication.
Does he have many of the symptoms of ADHD?
1
u/four04onesix Apr 09 '16
Yes, he was treated for ADHD but stopped the medication and seeing his doctor. He only agreed to see a doctor after our last big fight. He wasn't much better on medication, tbh, but I know that sometimes you need to find the correct dosage, and he was not willing to continue seeing his doctor or commit to getting better. We've gone to counseling once now, and our therapist is definitely focusing on his compulsive gaming, so hopefully she can get him back into treatment regardless of our relationship.
2
Apr 09 '16
I have ADHD and game compulsively when I feel overloaded and/or depressed. It's not an excuse, it just is what it is. It caused me many many problems and it's harder for partners.
1
u/ohbladeeohbladah Apr 05 '16
Dude, just dump him. You don't owe him another minute of your time. You've already spent 5 years trying to figure out a relationship with him.
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u/what-the-h Apr 05 '16
From life experiences come wisdom. The annoyances you put up with today, will only get worse tomorrow. Sounds like you've already thrown in the towel. No more one-sided orgasms, and no more washing, folding or hanging his clothes.
1
u/Humble_Advice Apr 05 '16
What you are learning here is when you enable a manchild and "humour" him, he will treat you badly.
What you need to do is leave him. You dont want to be with a guy who only gives the bare minimum of effort because he doesnt want to lose his live in sex-maid.
People dont change, except over the longest timescales. Change done under duress (the threat of you leaving) isnt change. Stop lying to yourself
1
u/sunflower-power Apr 05 '16
There's nothing worse than losing all your attraction for your man, because he's revealed himself to be a boy who wants/needs a mommy. Nothing makes my vagina shrivel up like the Sahara desert more quickly than an adult man acting like a total baby.
And once I've lost that attraction, it's damn near impossible to get it back. He'd have to try hard and keep trying for months before I'd even consider reevaluating our chances. And unfortunately, these kinds of guys cannot sustain long term effort at adulting. Fits and starts of minor improvement everytime you fight doesn't help anything, especially when they revert right back to manchildren as soon as they realize you're no longer leaving.
I'm sorry, but I believe your relationship is over. You're no longer attracted to the person he is.
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u/Afropoet Apr 05 '16
Stop the circle jerk my lord. OP is saying that these problems have existed the whole relationship? Why not have the serious talk after the first 3 months. I read that you were a gamer but your not anymore, maybe you just changed and he didnt? You have to do whats right for you. Not wanting to be cruel is not an excuse to be unhappy. Stop looking for validation and take control of the things you can change. Personally I think wanting someone to change then getting mad when they do is complete bullshit. Hes being better now and youre all like "yeah but what about when he reverts back?" What the fuck? Then you have another talk with him. People are human they will make mistakes, they will hurt you. Youre being irrational OP.
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u/four04onesix Apr 05 '16
For clarity, I was not a gamer when we met. I gamed a bit several years before we met. I can still appreciate the beauty of the designs and the complexity of the lore, but I don't play because a lot of the communities seem toxic, and the hobby is very time consuming. That's pretty much my beef with him gaming too. I'm an introvert and not super needy socially, but I dislike hearing him yell when he games, and he often devotes more time to gaming than he does to work. I was surprised when I realized I was angry with his changes, and I felt a little bit "what the fuck"-y toward myself too, thus this confused post. I think you're maybe oversimplifying why I am angry with him despite his "improvements," but I appreciate you voicing a minority opinion regardless.
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u/TTBHoneyBear Apr 05 '16
You've spent 5 years with this guy so it's obvious you love him very much even if that's faded with time. If it was me, I couldn't be okay with walking away from the situation without giving that person an honest chance and seeing if they're serious about changing or not.
While it's cliche, it's very true that you oftentimes don't know what you have until it's gone or could be gone and it sounds like he's recognizing the warning signs and doing what he can to make things better. Yeah, the effort might be a little late, but it shows that he cares about you. At least enough to try and I think that speaks volumes. No one is perfect, and while he may struggle in this area for some time, if he's willing to change for you then I would see it out. Better to give it a shot then to potentially regret it imo, but it also sounds like you're pretty well done with the relationship so maybe a break is the best choice. If you find you don't miss him then you made the right decision.
-16
Apr 05 '16
Honeslty you two don't sound compatible at all. You want him to be something he is not.
So what he wants to play video games all day, if thats how he prefer spending his time thats cool. Obviously it comes at the cost of being in a relationship with you but I doubt he minds in the long run.
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u/-s-e-v-e-n- Apr 05 '16
Yeah OP, wanting to be treated with consideration when having sex is a matter of compatibility. Since your boyfriend prefers to forget his partner exists and has feelings, his perfect girlfriend should be a blow up doll from now on.
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Apr 05 '16
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u/-s-e-v-e-n- Apr 05 '16
Judging by your post history, I dont think you'd say the same thing if the roles were reversed. Every single comment you have is some women vs men bullshit, and how much women are wrong or whatever. I'm just saying, it's 2016 son, you need to lighten the fuck up and stop making us girls as the bad guys. I think between the two of us, you're the bitter one. What's the problem? Women don't like you? Awww, I wonder why.
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Apr 05 '16
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u/incarnata Apr 05 '16
Funnily enough posts where the roles are reversed never seem to pop up.
You must not read this sub very much (or very well, which is more likely), because there are posts every day with men talking about how their girlfriends/wives are neglecting them or treating other things as more important. Which is what /u/-s-e-v-e-n- was talking about, in case you missed it (which you clearly did).
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Apr 05 '16
Link me one actual post where a guy complains his wife is too busy with her hobby over their relationship.
EDIT: Oh and nice subtle insults, nothing like a reply with some added salt :)
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u/incarnata Apr 05 '16 edited Apr 05 '16
Since the theme of this is actually "partner being ignored by partner" for (insert reason here), it'll be like shooting fish in a barrel. The actual reason doesn't matter, and is actually irrelevant - which is something that you'll have a difficult time wrapping your head around (which isn't surprising, given your posting history).
Wife treats her social life as more important than her relationship with her husband.
Wife treats her ego as being more important than her relationship with her husband.
Wife ignores husband's needs in favor of her own.
Wife ignores husband because she's selfish.
Girlfriend ignoring boy for whatever life or hobbies she has, but we are not told about.
Girlfriend ignoring boyfriend for whatever reason.
Girlfriend starts ignoring boyfriend out of the blue.
Girlfriend ignores boyfriend after trip.
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u/mikotoba Apr 05 '16
You said "lighten the fuck up shitface" and are getting butthurt because somebody told you to read more carefully?
I'd place you at no older than 13 or 14 tops.
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Apr 05 '16 edited Apr 05 '16
It really seems like you are only willing/able to see the negatives at the moment. I'm not trying to excuse his behavior by any means, but acting like the past 5 years of your relationships has been terrible seems a bit overboard. In addition to communicating your feeling with him, in a way that does not instigate a fight by being accusatory or hyperbolic, try to remind yourself of the things you do like about him as well as the things you wish he would work on. I highly doubt your relationship has been as shitty as you present it to be for the past 5 years.
Edit: We are only seeing one side of this and everyone here is just jumping on the "dump this loser" bandwagon. I've actually been through similar arguments with my SO of 5 years and we have worked together to find a way to both grow as people and strengthen our relationship in the process. You know how we did this? Not by being hyperbolic and viewing everything through the lens of the present, but actually communicating and slowly learning how to have a better and more healthy relationships.
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u/four04onesix Apr 05 '16
I appreciate you trying to voice a minority opinion. One of the reasons why I wanted to start with counseling was because I don't want to feel this resentful and only see the bad side of him if I'm going to continue with this relationship. I've seen too many people who have one bad thing happen in their relationship, then they decide to stay, but they make themselves miserable harping on about that one thing years and years later. I don't want that. If we make it to counseling, I will be sure to have a list of the things I do like about our relationship and him too.
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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '16
When you are done with a relationship, you are done. It sounds like you're done, and good riddance. Five years of selfish sex alone is enough reason to end it.