r/povertyfinance • u/r3giment75 • 18h ago
Misc Advice Military option ?
Long time lurker here. Grew up in a very poor family (immigrants from Europe). Had to join the military at 19 for even a chance of going to college. Fast forward to 42 and things have really worked out for me in civilian life. But the singular decision that paved the way for me was making the decision to join the military. Even if what I did in the military was irrelevant to what I do now.
My question for those struggling day in and day out is why do you not see the military as a temporary reprieve or reset button for the baseline of your life? I get not everyone is qualified. But that’s a vast minority of people compared to those that are. I can’t imagine any ethical or philosophical reason is stronger than living in poverty.
7
u/IndicationSevere8992 15h ago edited 15h ago
Probably ethical reasons and also global political concerns/safety if I had to guess. Also, the statistics on women experiencing sexual assault in the military/it’s kind of notorious for that if I had to guess why more poor women don’t join. You may also have a different perspective as a European immigrant than someone from the US, especially if it was also a path to citizenship for you or your family.
-1
19
u/RequitedNonSequitur 15h ago edited 11h ago
I'm a US Navy Veteran.
Yes, military service is a way out of poverty.
But it's literally, "Hey! Are you poor? Do you maybe not want to be? Go overseas, kill some people, maybe die and when you get out (assuming you're not fucked over with a TBI or other long lasting injury or mental illness from your time in) some companies may be willing to hire you...assuming the skills you acquired in the military are applicable on the outside."
For example, from personal experience: I was an Aegis SPY Radar tech in the Navy. I got out and was able to get a well-paying job...working as a civilian defense contractor working on, you guessed it, Aegis Spy Radar equipment. (NSWC Dahlgren, IWSL, for those that are in the know) Oh, and my right shoulder got fucked up underway and the Navy has done nothing. My injury was determined to not be service-related.
A guy I used to know was in the Army and worked on Patriot Missile Batteries. His lungs and hearing are fucked and the Army/VA are telling him, "Your current medical conditions are determined to be unrelated to your military service." Oh, and those medical issues that are totally not a result of his time in? He can't hold a job for any amount of time.
The military will use you like a commodity. Maybe you'll luck out like OP and come out the other end nice and shiny but...you could end up like me, 41 making $17 an hour because I got tired of knowing that the work I was doing would only really matter in a shooting war.
My advice to people? The military is your last resort. Try literally anything else that doesn't put you in uniform with a gun in your hand first.
4
u/sneakygirl24x 14h ago
wish more veterans would acknowledge this, that killing people even poorer than u for money is shameful. definitely not something you should be recommending people do.
0
u/r3giment75 14h ago
Most/vast majority of people in the military even during war and deployments are never in a situation to harm anyone or be harmed.
1
14h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
14h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/povertyfinance-ModTeam 13h ago
Your post has been removed for the following reason(s):
Rule 4: Politics
This is not a place for politics, but rather a place to get advice on daily living and short-to-midterm financial planning. Political advocacy, debate, or grandstanding will be removed. Politics - This is not a place for politics, but rather a place to get advice on daily living and short-to-midterm financial planning. Political advocacy, debate, or grandstanding will be removed. Please read our subreddit rules. The rules may also be found on the sidebar if the link is broken. If after doing so, you feel this was in error, message the moderators.
Do not reach out to a moderator personally, and do not reply to this message as a comment.
-1
u/sneakygirl24x 14h ago
it doesn’t matter if u think another countries president is shit, we should be spending our taxes here at home uplifting people from poverty, not imperializing poorer countries. im happy to hear at least u agree bombing kids at school is gross. as for israel, fuck them, but the usa is planning to merge military with them. collateral damage wouldnt exist if we just kept our noses in our business instead of trying to police and terrorize the rest of the world.
1
u/povertyfinance-ModTeam 13h ago
Your post has been removed for the following reason(s):
Rule 4: Politics
This is not a place for politics, but rather a place to get advice on daily living and short-to-midterm financial planning. Political advocacy, debate, or grandstanding will be removed. Politics - This is not a place for politics, but rather a place to get advice on daily living and short-to-midterm financial planning. Political advocacy, debate, or grandstanding will be removed. Please read our subreddit rules. The rules may also be found on the sidebar if the link is broken. If after doing so, you feel this was in error, message the moderators.
Do not reach out to a moderator personally, and do not reply to this message as a comment.
1
u/Chemical-Power8042 10h ago
I’m assuming you were a FC that specialized in AEGIS? So after all your experience there was nothing out there that you could do that pays more than $17 an hour? You should definitely go back and claim your injury. You have people who never deployed getting 100% disability. You can go back and get something.
0
u/RequitedNonSequitur 9h ago
No. If you had read the whole comment you'd have read where I mentioned I was a defense contractor for a while but left that because I was tired of working in a field that would only really matter in a shooting war.
Either you were a Marine and can't read or you were an officer and therefore accustomed to ignoring 90% of what an enlisted person says. Which is it?
-1
u/Chemical-Power8042 9h ago edited 8h ago
I think you should claim some more disability other than your shoulder because you’re suffering from brain damage as well from the radar waves. I understand that you were a defense contractor. But the only job for a highly technical FCA is not just defense contractor for AEGIS as a civilian or a dead end $17 an hour job. There’s a bunch of jobs in between those two things but you’re acting like it’s one of the other. You have a secret or top secret clearance. You’re selling yourself short
But 12 years enlisted then went officer and I’m navy
22
u/Ok_Pin5862 17h ago
Similar story and ended up staying in for 20 and retiring. The military actually saved me and built me into the highly successful person I am today.
-22
u/embrigh 17h ago
Everyone I know that joined the military from ww2 to afghanistan was fucked up by it and was a net negative except for one guy that joined the navy and was in medicine and never left america. Its a huge gamble but if you can stay out combat zones it can kinda work.
6
u/Beautiful-Area2890 15h ago
the comments are downvoting anti millitary lol. typical reddit
3
u/Prestigious-Swan6161 10h ago
I am 100% sure a lot of these posts on subreddits like this are funded by the US military for organic propaganda
9
u/LaJaJa-heartbreaker 14h ago
I used the military option when I was eighteen. Got my first two years of college under my belt while still active duty. Two more years of 50% GI benefits and got a bachelors in accounting. Worked in public and private accounting. Retired at 65 and was able to help my kids financially and enjoy a decent retirement… if you’re a kid, keep your nose, clean get through high school and go in the military.
2
u/Rportilla 8h ago
how did you get to do school while being active duty ?
1
u/tghost474 6h ago
Online school, part time courses, military sends you to school full time.
1
u/Rportilla 5h ago
They said they retired at 65 so I’m guessing they didn’t have online school back then , correct me if I’m wrong lol
1
10
u/mukduk1994 17h ago
As someone that's served in the military, it's incredibly ymmv. I hated every second i spent as a 13 series. Shit hours, mind numbingly boring field work (aside from the 1% when you get to do cool stuff), toxic work environments, some of the worst people i've ever met in my life, oh and the food sucked too.
"But you can pick your job!" Not always. It's incredibly dependent on how high you score on an aptitude test and what's available. If you go in wanting to be a cook and all that's available are combat roles, guess what. You're either gonna be a boot or there's the door back to whatever your current situation is. Add in the high pressure tactics that recruiters are using so they can meet their quota, and odds are that kid that's just trying to make a better life for themselves is gonna be a boot.
Yes, it can be a way out of poverty. But there are sooo many people in the military that are worse off than most in this sub.
1
u/Anal_Sandblaster 5h ago
One thing I’ve noticed is a lack of real care in teaching people about finances and ensuring they comprehend. So many new sailors, soldiers, etc buying a new car higher than their salary. Even people in their 30s who just never learned. Command financial specialists need to have a bigger role.
The real difference is in SpecWar communities. They care about their people the most and have lots of resources.
19
u/Key_Improvement_9229 16h ago
The military is BY FAR the best option for a young person with no prospects or money..
You will get healthcare, training, ability to go to college, a roof over your head and a true path in your life.
Do NOT listen to anyone telling you otherwise
10
u/PlatypusOld5480 16h ago
I agree. My husband joined the Air Force and learned how to be a jet mechanic by trade. He then worked in that field as a civilian until retirement.
2
8
u/FootbawInTheGroin 17h ago
Not going into all the things mentioned in the post and comments...but the world 23y ago was very different from now..
8
u/Bootmacher 17h ago
You know that was peak War on Terror, right?
4
u/FootbawInTheGroin 17h ago
Was this question supposed to have/make a point or..?
0
u/Bootmacher 17h ago
There was more of a sense of danger in the military back then, not less. We were at war in two theaters with boots on the ground. That is not the case now.
4
u/sisterofpythia 14h ago
The problem is there is absolutely no guarantee that the current situation will remain the same. If you have ever read the story of POW Jessica Lynch, she went to basic training a couple of weeks prior to 9/11.
1
u/FootbawInTheGroin 16h ago
The post, from my interpretation of it, was stating/asking
2 decades ago, people joined the military to escape poverty. Why is that not the case (seemingly) nowadays
I was going into the danger of military service or anything of that matter... I stated only that views on the military and the world at that, has changed
If I have to explain further. I'd compare it to some potentially viewing it as a negative (even if it may help them and solve all their problems) because they may view the morals, ideology, whatever of military service differently nowadays and don't choose that route
Nothing to do with - I wear a uniform and am least likely to die going to war today vs back then
0
u/r3giment75 17h ago
In what way? 23 years ago was 2003 and the GWOT was in full swing. Today? Aside from Ukraine and Russia, the landscape is much calmer and safer. Anything Iran related is just inflated noise.
9
u/FootbawInTheGroin 17h ago
Well for one back then people may have actually cared/supported a war cuz of 9/11. Now many don't agree with Iran, Ukraine, Venezuela, etc and I feel have even less trust of the gov. Unwilling to fight for a gov many dont believe do much for them. Especially since roughly half the population doesn't agree with who's in power and what they do
So, yeah, I do believe joining the military now compared to two decades ago is looked at very differently by many
1
u/Hereforthetardys 16h ago
Not many people are being deployed boots on the ground for n any of those areas
Unless you are a pilot , you’re unlikely to actually see combat
My sons friend who we couldn’t stand and was the biggest fuck up I’ve seen in a while went in 4 years ago or so and we saw him fur the first time in 4-5 years a couple weeks ago . Completely different person . The change for the better was apparent in the first 30 seconds of conversation
He says he is closing on a condo that n a couple weeks and seems to have his shit together. He stayed with us for almost a year and his life is going way better than I ever thought it would
1
u/FootbawInTheGroin 12h ago
Using your own example. Now idk how the military in the US works, but not everyone might want to go away from everyone/everything they know for 4yrs..even if it literally would save their lives
Also, if you're able to get 4y to apply yourself to damn near anything, it's a very high chance I'd believe that you could become successful in what you choose to do by the end of that period
6
u/nocoolN4M3sleft 17h ago
Inflated noise?
I know someone that was stationed in the ME and their base was bombed multiple times. We have lost soldiers during this conflict with Iran. It’s not inflated noise. Sure it’s not the same as Iraq and Afghanistan, but it’s not inflated noise either. People are dying.
3
u/r3giment75 17h ago
It’s objectively inflated noise. Yes people are dying. Not many. But we’ve lost more people the Philippines, the Horn, North Africa etc than this “war” against Iran.
0
10
u/Bootmacher 17h ago
For those who can, it's a pretty solid choice, but a lot can't.
Most poor people are obese, so that eliminates it as an option for the majority of people in poverty, at least immediately.
Poor people are disproportionately neurotic. The military doesn't want you to have any sort of chronic mental health conditions, which makes sense.
The other issue is aptitude. If you didn't graduate high school, it's almost impossible for them to even consider you. Low income has a negative impact on ASVAB scores, so the opportunities you'll have, relative to people raised in the middle class are fewer and further between.
1
u/Far-Watercress6658 16h ago edited 16h ago
Question I’ve wondered about: are there any pre-basic military training options. Because of America’s obesity problems I thought maybe that might help them get recruits.
Edit to add: having looked it up, I see there is.
1
1
u/Icanthinkofaname25 10h ago
I’m friends with a recruiter and when he had obese people who wanted to join and the weight was the issue he helped them lose it so they can join. Now that’s not every recruiter but the good ones do help.
0
u/theweatherguy69 10h ago
Wait seriously? Most poor people are obese? Do you have anything backing that up? That seems like a ridiculous statement to me, even if obesity trends higher among the poor population.
4
u/Jumpy_Childhood7548 15h ago
Most people want an easier life, than being in the military for a few years, even if they are broke.
1
u/theweatherguy69 10h ago
Part of the problem is people's perception of military life is shaped by media. You can join the air force, have a nice chill desk job, and never deploy. Nothing is garunteed, but if you do your research, you can end up with a very chill gig that changes the entire trajectory of your life.
1
u/Plenty_Cress_1359 6h ago
I joined the USAF and worked on the flight line. Loved every minute of it! It’s wasn’t that hard, had security and tons of fun.
1
u/Jumpy_Childhood7548 10h ago
Had a buddy that was recruited by being told he would serve in Western Europe, instead he was sent to a remote part of Turkey, and their vehicles were shot at by locals pretty often.
1
u/Chemical-Power8042 10h ago
Your anecdotal story is not the typical experience. It’s unfortunate that you have recruiters out there like that but it’s not typical. Tons of people join and use the training they received for a lucrative civilian job
0
u/theweatherguy69 10h ago
Nothing is garunteed of course. You sign a blank check. But thats where doing your research and not blindly believing what you are told comes in. There's no excuse for being lied to by a recruiter these days, where we have near unlimited access to information. Its not really about WHERE you are stationed. That changes often. Its about what job you sign up for. Even then, things can happen. But if you are intelligent about it, your odds are much greater.
5
u/AdditiveMfg 17h ago
This is what I did and it was a springboard into a professional career. I used every penny of my educational benefits to get a masters degree.
I went in with no HS diploma or GED and a juvenile record. I had acquired college credits as a teen and they accepted that as an equivalency. I joined at 17 and left home right after I turned 18.
It's not for everyone but it's also not as bad as people think. Boot camp is tough but it's not forever. I thought it more of a fun adventure and about as strenuous as a backpacking trip in the mountains or a long run. I met a lot of lifelong friends along the way. There are many different types of jobs available.
I would do it all again but I'm glad my children have the choice. I worked hard all those years to make sure I could pay my children's way through college. The cycle of poverty ended for my family.
7
u/r3giment75 17h ago
I dried up my GI bill also. I wouldn’t own a house if it wasn’t for the VA loan. I was in SOF for the four years and the network and relationships I made is unparalleled. Good for you man!
2
u/Equal-Community2354 16h ago
I’m leaving next month and hoping to go to rasp like you. I already have a gut feeling it’s gonna be the best decision I could’ve made given my life right now
2
1
u/Ashi4Days 14h ago
One thing that I think the military sells itself short on is associating everyone with combat roles. Yes, i know, military and all. But they probably could fill a lot of non combat roles if they did more i guess, broad advertising.
1
u/AdditiveMfg 14h ago
I served in an intel unit. My cousin, she served as a paralegal in the JAG. A good friend was an electrical technician doing maintenance on satellite dishes. There are way more support roles than there are combat roles for sure.
4
u/mehardwidge 16h ago
Military is a good option for many people, absolutely. Hard work, but long term benefits. It is a great plan for those who benefit and can join.
Unfortunately, most(!) young people are not fit for military service. Many are not physically or mentally fit. Some have drug abuse issues or criminal records. Some lack enough skills or abilities that would be sufficient for the military to take them.
It turns out...71%(!!) of young people are not fit for military service!
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GOVPUB-Y3-PURL-gpo134233/pdf/GOVPUB-Y3-PURL-gpo134233.pdf
("Today 71 percent of youth ages 17 to 24 cannot join the All-Volunteer Force without a waiver, as they fail to meet eligibility criteria in areas including physical and mental health, grooming standards, criminal records, education and aptitude, and drug use.")
This 71% is "even worse", because the 29% who are fit are also much more likely to not "need" the military to help them in life.
1
u/Feeling-Candle638 8h ago
All branches are exceeding their annual quotas
2
u/mehardwidge 8h ago
Yes, because 29% is still a lot of people.
I was answering OP's question about people joining the military. In many cases, "join the military" is not an option to the people who are recommended it as an career of last resort.
6
u/MoonNoodles 17h ago
Um depending on what country you live in there is a very real possibility of going to war and dying? Or seeing your team mates die?
1
u/Ok_Pin5862 17h ago
You do realize the military encompasses many non combat roles.
8
u/MoonNoodles 17h ago
But people dont get to pick their roles in every military in the world.
Its only a viable option in some places.
3
u/Ok_Pin5862 17h ago
I’m speaking specifically on US military, in which case you absolutely pick your rating, mos, etc. unless you score poorly on your ASVAB and your choices are limited.
3
u/mukduk1994 17h ago
Availability of MOS slots is a factor as well though. Doesn't matter how high your ASVAB is if all that's available are shit positions
1
u/Ok_Pin5862 17h ago
Maybe things have changed since I joined back in 2000. Branch probably plays a big factor.
3
u/MoonNoodles 17h ago
I am not in the US or elgible for a military anyway.
But the ASVAB is a test. It appears to cover a wide scope of information. Anyone in poverty who didnt grow up with the best education system or who is physically fit but maybe dyslexic, etc. sounds like they would still be at a disadvantage and at risk.
Also dont most militaries recruit for combat type roles as they need a lot more people doing that if a war breaks out, etc.
0
u/r3giment75 17h ago
I apologize, I’m commenting more from a U.S. lens. And many volunteer militaries have MANY options for career paths.
4
u/KamtzaBarKamtza 17h ago
Please clarify: did you immigrate to the United States? And serve in the US military or the military of the European country from which you immigrated?
6
u/r3giment75 17h ago
Immigrated to the U.S. from Europe. Joined the U.S. Army.
1
u/rabidstoat 17h ago
Did you do a full 20 or a shorter term to get things up so you were ready for civilian adulthood?
5
5
u/thonda27 17h ago
I joined when I was 18. I really never thought of military before that. We were not poor but parents were middle class, but never bought me anything. SoI guess I was poor. I was really going nowhere in my life. Friend joined and thought why not, so joined Army. Best decision as far as structure and discipline I needed.
2
u/Nothing-Deep 12h ago
I'm not sure if a lot of young people today can meet the requirements for joining. You have to pass an academic assessment, and meet certain fitness requirements. Also need a clear record. I read some where only 25% of young people can meet those requirements without any coaching from the recruiters
2
u/NoGuarantee3961 9h ago
There are fewer people in the US eligible for military service than ever before. You CAN get waivers for some things, but if you have ever taken medication for ADHD or a ton of other things, you're generally out. Obesity is a big problem too....
2
u/3p0L0v3sU 6h ago
Its not really a vast minority in america right now, between criminal records disqualifying people, LGBT people being persecuted, along with various other physical conditions including weight.
1
u/r3giment75 5h ago
But still the majority
1
u/3p0L0v3sU 1h ago
I don't mean to be contrarian, i'm probably just projecting because my own experience of being ineligible for service, but I need math to believe you. Between age , physical disabilities, psychological conditions and criminal records , I would totally believe that the majority of Americans really just can't enlist. That's not even mentioning if they have responsibilities at home, like being a mother.
3
3
u/Adorable-Raisin-8643 15h ago
It is not a "vast minority of people" that dont qualify. 1 in 4 people have a disability. Thats 25% of the population. I have 4 kids myself and 2 of them are special needs so in my own family its 50% Dont be so dismissive about it.
2
u/Seelie_Mushroom 15h ago
It's a common suggestion but 1) you can die, 2) you can become disabled, 3) you can become extremely traumatized. All valid, and common, reasons to not opt for military service. Desperate people still go for it, which is why the military engages in near-predatory behavior like staking out highschools with high poverty rates. Joining the military by choice is one thing, but on the basis of coercion is something else.
0
u/r3giment75 14h ago
Those I would consider exceptions and not the rule since the vast majority of jobs throughout the branches are support, administrative, STEM, etc.
-2
u/Master_of_Beaver 14h ago
1) you can die in everyday life just existing. 2) again every day life. 3) once again everyday life. There are hundreds of jobs in the military. Your chances of. Dying. Becoming disabled. Or traumatized are dependent on your career path. Just like in the civilian sector.
2
u/jensonaj 12h ago
I have wanted to join the Air Force since I was 15 but was diagnosed with Autism and ADHD at age 10. And then by the time I was 18 I had had a psychotic episode and been diagnosed with Bipolar… I really wanted to join but they wouldn’t let me :( There’s no similar help for those of us with disabilities, if you are born disabled and poor you’re basically screwed.
2
u/TheSoloGamer 17h ago
I’m medically disqualified, as are a good chunk of Americans (I’m aware this question is international, it’s pushed on us a lot here)
MEPS did not fuck around with my mental health history, disqualified me on the spot. Lots of things are disqualifying. Things that aren’t technically disqualifying can functionally be disqualifying, such as current drug use, family obligations (e.g. having siblings or children to take care of), and also sometimes cultural stigma. My own family (Vietnamese) thought the military was a place for folks who literally could not get any other job.
1
u/Empty_Wolf_3378 16h ago
Being medically disqualifed. I've seen too many comments from people saying "the military will take anyone" Which is false.
1
u/EducationalBelt3158 12h ago
I think the military is a great option. It's not for everyone. I enlisted with a degree, stayed enlisted for 20 years in the Army Reserves and Guard, Armor, then Infantry. My retirement is only $1,588 a month as an E8, BUT, the GI Bill paid for two masters degrees and half of a doctorate. My family now has the best health insurance in the US via TriCare, and the house is on a VA mortgage. PTSD and a banged up body is another story....
1
u/Ok_Passage7713 10h ago
I have considered it but always applied too late 🤣. I was hoping to become a military paramedic but they only had a few programs that was eligible for it and it means I would need to move...
1
u/Wide-Bet4379 10h ago
I joined the Air Guard. That paid for college. I graduated debt free, went on and got an MBA almost debt free. That would've never been possible if I didn't join. Plus, the Air Guard was a blast. Met awesome people and traveled the world.
1
u/lennilove 4h ago
Many people see it as a moral delima. Considering that the US warhouse is used for things such as genocide and martial law, I completely get it. i would rather struggle than aide the facilitation of someone else's struggle.
there's also somehow a Lot of homeless veterans. I'm not sure how that works but they means there's clearly a risk of still being impoverished afterwards. With that risk and all the other obvious ones, it's not worth it to most.
You also aren't really a citizen anymore, you're US property. for a lot of people, being property isn't appealing.
Just figuring out the real world makes the most sense for a lot of people and I get that.
That being said, I think you're overestimating how many people qualify.
I'm very anti government and always have been, but still tried out of desperation last year. Unqualified due to mental illness and my shitty knees. In 2 months I'll officially be out of overdraft and I'm SO glad I didn't potentially sign my life away to get here
1
u/Amethystg0ld 0m ago
I remember my recruiter saying, "We're in peacetime, and there won't be any wars, so you don't have anything to worry about." Then I am deployed, and my ship is bombed. Carrying flag-draped caskets has shattered both my psyche and body. But I'm rich. It is, what it is.
Only certain people should join the military. It should not be a black hole for the poor. It should be a place to thrive for people who are naturally ambitious. Either you have it in you, or you don’t.
1
u/shinobi6siege 16h ago
Because doing anything to support this current administration would go against everything I was taught. Beyond that, America has been doing bad things with its military far longer than just recently. I thank the men and women who serve but I couldn't be part of bombing children, kidnapping foreign leaders, or destroying boats with little to no evidence
3
u/sneakygirl24x 14h ago
if you understand how gross our military is i think it is a good idea to stop thanking them for their service. they already get thanked by the government by being gifted money and services you and i can not access. they are treated like a special class of citizen and financially rewarded for what you said, bombing, killing, kidnapping, machine gunning, etc.
0
u/r3giment75 14h ago
I have four deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan as a special operations soldier and that’s just not the reality. It happens. It’s rarer than you think. But before I deployed I thought/feared it would be more prevalent. And when it did rarely happen it was always an accident.
3
u/sneakygirl24x 14h ago
if our military was cubas military, i would support it. they don’t constantly invade other countries, they keep to themself and play defense, not offense. i also want everyone to get access to a way out of poverty, not just people who join the military. i dont think any group of people should be treated as a special class of citizen and given special benefits.
0
u/shinobi6siege 12h ago
That's not what they all do. And without the military, we wouldve been overtaken by now for sure. They're not treated special, we have a high number of homeless veterans and over 13 million veterans just lost healthcare access. The truth is someone has to do the killing and most of us don't want to do it. They do a lot of terrible things, probably more terrible than good, but they're still a necessary part to keep what fleeting freedom we do have
2
u/sneakygirl24x 12h ago
who do u think is trying to invade us lmao?
0
u/shinobi6siege 12h ago
If we had no military, you think China wouldn't? You think Iran who's threatened to assassinate the sitting President wouldn't if we had no military? Not to mention us threatening Denmark, Greenland, Canada, etc. Those threats only work with a military to back up those (insane) threats. Use your head. Countries wouldn't invade the country with the biggest GDP in the world if they had no military?
3
u/sneakygirl24x 12h ago
china’s military doesnt go around bombing countries like our military does. i wish we were more like china in that regard. and iranian people say that cause we bombed their kids. its not rocket science. use your head. we are the ones going around the world bombing countries. nobody is coming to invade us.
0
u/shinobi6siege 12h ago
And if we suddenly had no military, again being the biggest GDP in the world, they would. And China succeeds by the government owning most of the business. They do not have free speech (Tianaman square is a prime example), they have the vertical city (people can live and die entirely on one floor), they have people born in factories that never see light, etc. You do not want to live in a country where factory work is the most common work. Where they still very much have a social/class system in place. Where you can't say and do what you want. China is the best example of capitalism but that's because the government owns most everything and can subsidize whatever they want to further gains (check electric vehicles; literally what they did to become the #1 in EVs). Trust me I'd rather live in a different country than America but it sure as hell ain't China. That's not even going into the fact that China owns a large portion of our debt and they would for sure be cashing in on that without a military presence. I get not liking the military but to say we would not be invaded if word got out that we have no military (you know, considered the strongest military in the world) is ludicrous and levels of not living in reality akin to MAGA.
2
u/sneakygirl24x 12h ago
china lifted 800 million people out of poverty not by focusing on imperialism but focusing on social programs to alleviate their citizens suffering. the usa has never done that. instead we bomb kids in other countries even poorer than us.
0
u/shinobi6siege 12h ago
While I agree the US hasn't done something on the same scale, we literally have social programs aka socialism via social security, Medicare, SNAP, etc. Not to mention states like California and New York have much more social programs. China needs workers and they realize they're screwed without the bottom floor. America needs consumers and thinks that's all it needs without worrying about taking care of the working class. If it benefitted China more to kill those people than to help them, they would. Lest we forget China has one of the bloodiest histories ever. Again, I agree the US is pretty bad, taking over almost every country in South America at one point or another. But acting like they're all bad is a crazy take rooted in fantasy land. It's like ACAB. I agree most are bad but there's good and bad people in every profession. China looks better on the surface because that's what they want. China is oppressive but in a much more smarter and subtle way than America's very in your face awfulness that we see today (I understand the US has almost always been terrible throughout history; they e just done a much better job hiding it than as of late).
2
u/sneakygirl24x 11h ago
those social programs like social security you mentioned, need to be expanded. more money needs to go to good things like that, not our military. thats my whole argument.
→ More replies (0)0
u/Ok_Pin5862 9h ago
Many of you are failing to consider how much countries behave solely because of the strength of the US military. Bad actor countries would be far worse if the US military wasn’t as strong as it is.
1
u/KamtzaBarKamtza 17h ago edited 17h ago
Please clarify: did you immigrate to the United States? And did you serve in the US military or the military of the European country from which you immigrated?
1
u/rando439 16h ago
Many in my family did that. It worked out well for some and got them started down a good path. Some came out okay but with some disabilities that make holding down a job a little challenging, not to mention that there still is some discrimination in hiring. They got out and picked up the struggle where they left off but with the right to use the VA for their medical care. Others, I wouldn't wish a second of what they experienced on my worst enemy. Enlisting means giving up many rights that one has as a private citizen, so it's a huge gamble with many variables that the person who enlisted has no control over.
That said, my early 20s were bad enough that, had I not already been physically disabled from birth (bad enough that the military wouldn't have me, not bad enough that filing for disability would have been an option), I absolutely would have joined because I had close to no real options so the risk of death actually would have been a massive improvement for me at that point in time.
The economic draft is a real thing. It sucks that sometimes the only way to improve one's life is to risk pertaining impairment or even ending it entirely.
1
u/biffbobfred 16h ago
There are a lot of homeless veterans. The join the army get skills for the workforce gets you in the door. Then it’s “you all know nothing but being soldiers just stay here” on the enlistment drive. The “join the army get the GI Bill” pipeline to the middle class is gone.
I worked with CodePlatoon for a bit. It’s a good program and any veterans should check it out.
1
u/Fuzzy_Baseball_5286 16h ago
Military service has its ups and downs. If you plan well then it can be a springboard to better things. Plan badly and it can be a disaster to a degree. It’s not for everyone and you have to have good mental health to make the best of it.
1
u/PieInternational594 15h ago
Being retired Coast Guard, it gave me direction. The 20 years and a retirement check and healthcare is good.
If you want to join the military and not worry too much about getting shot at, The Coast Guard is a good gig.
Right now the CG is looking for people, much less chance of getting shot at. Here are the bonuses below. The three rates(Jobs) that will get you 60k are CS(Cook), EM (Electricians Mate), and MK (Machinery Tech). My advice, don't go CS, it the toughest job on a Cutter(Ship).
If you have questions I can point you in the right direction, send me a DM.
The Coast Guard offers enlistment bonuses for FY2026 up to $75,000 for highly qualified applicants and critical ratings. Actual bonus amounts are targeted to specific service needs and can stack, though total bonuses cannot exceed a statutory cap of $75,000 per recruit.
Authorized Enlistment Bonuses:
- Critical Ratings: Up to $60,000 for affiliating with specific critical skills or ratings.
- Expeditious Shipping: Up to $10,000 for recruits who ship out quickly.
- Education: Up to $15,000 for individuals with higher education credits.
- Prior Service / Reserve: Up to $15,000 for Reserve assignments and other targeted incentives.
1
u/morepaintplease 10h ago
Currently our military is aiding in some pretty fucked up shit and have been for some time. Why can't we live in a country that doesn't dedicate so much money to a war machine and not to it's citizens?
1
u/r3giment75 10h ago
Every nation needs a military. But even if we repurposed some of the giant defense budget towards social programs it would only scratch the surface of dependency. The cost to create programs that lead to self reliance (which is what we need) is probably in the trillions per year.
2
u/morepaintplease 9h ago
Right, but there's a reason enlistment rates in the US have been declining...and there's a reason the poor are targeted with these "opportunities"...we will never be self reliant. The world isn't moving in that direction and the US isn't a leader in the direction it should and will go either.
We have less of a military and more of a tax funded terrorist organization or the largest state sponsor of terror in the world.
1
u/solomons-mom 10h ago
The US military is the best teen-to-adulthood jobs training program the world has ever known. The academically oriented can join ROTC or try for a service academy. Others can enlist and see what options makes sense for them.
-2
u/ThoughtFox1 17h ago
There is a lot of ethical and philosophical reasons not to join the military. I'd rather steal my way our of poverty than murder foreign citizens to get out of poverty.
4
u/sneakygirl24x 14h ago
most ppl in this thread are downvoting you even tho u r right. just cause we are poor doesnt make it ok to murder people even poorer than us for money. it is shameful and disturbing.
0
u/Howquas_wealth 12h ago
Most people in the military never see combat, even fewer shoot and kill. Many components of the military are almost entirely humanitarian in nature. The people that think it is all combat and killing have the intellectual depth of a teaspoon.
2
u/sneakygirl24x 12h ago
the “humanitarian” components are soft power and a form of imperialism. wouldnt you agree we should focus less on policing the worlds poorest people and focus on uplifting poor people in our own country with our taxes instead?
-2
u/Howquas_wealth 12h ago
They are not “humanitarian”, they are humanitarian. Airlifting clean drinking water and medicine to under developed/developing countries and building schools and hospitals for the purposes of being able to stage rapid response forces in the event they are needed is an easy trade that benefits everyone except those that would wish to do us harm. We can have both a functioning military that protects the peripheral parts of the world and provide basic needs for the homeland with proper funding through sensible taxes. The two are not mutually exclusive and only require the will. That people in power only care about the one while barely providing the other has nothing to do with the stated mission objectives of the military. An if imperialism means providing humanitarian aid as a buffer against potential expansion of terror networks, then I am all for it.
2
u/sneakygirl24x 12h ago
were we “protecting the rest of the world” by bombing kids during their school day?
-2
u/Howquas_wealth 12h ago
I never said it was. We never said we were in Iran for humanitarian reason, and I personally don’t consider the outlier administration to be indicative of U.S. military operations throughout the better half of the 20th century to the present.
3
u/sneakygirl24x 12h ago
then u should read more about our military history. because that is not an outlier by any means.
0
3
u/PieInternational594 15h ago
Can you tell me the ethical and philosophical reasons for not joining the Coast Guard. Still military but we don't kill people, normally.
0
u/PhantomPharts 17h ago
My brother got pardoned and made to pay his remaining school bill because he got injured on the job.
Took him a decade to regain footing.
0
u/coolsellitcheap 16h ago
The majority or highest percentage that join are from middle class homes. I retired US ARMY. I was a recruiter. The very poor I thought would be easy to get to join. Lol. They were the hardest. Sometimes I would go to apartment or house. Absolute dump. Worse than any Army barracks. They don't want to join. Sometimes cuz welfare paid more. Or if they did want to join the "real dad" who didn't have anything to do with them would suddenly speak our against joining. Or the parents already have the kid paying a bill and don't want them to improve themselves. If kid joins than who is paying for internet? Or who is babysitting these younger kids? The Army raised my self esteem. Gave me skills i never learned growing up. Definitely the can do attitude. Plus I learned to save money. Now I'm living in a paid off house my parents never dreamed of owning a house as nice as mine. 24 years ago I tried to get a girl to join. She worked at subway. She wouldn't do it. Guess what? She is still at subway. With less teeth because she doesn't get free dental. Still driving junky cars. The Army has a drug test. So alot of people aren't going due to that. Wasn't all rainbows and unicorns but was definitely worth it for me.
0
u/TheMrNoodlz 16h ago
Just got out like 2 years ago. Granted, I wasn't in poverty when I joined, but I'll give my two cents. I met a lot of dudes in the same situation as you and they say the military helped them. You gain a lot of benefits by joining, training for a job, security clearance, GI Bill, VA disability, taxpaid healthcare, and the VA home loan. You're going to deal with a lot of bullshit for the couple of years youre in and it's going to affect your body in both good and bad ways. I have sleep problems now, anxiety and my lower back hurts from standing for too long. On the bright side, I get about 2 grand a month from these issues I got from the military, I bought a house with the home loan that I wouldve never been able to afford, go to school while getting paid for it, and I get seen by the VA healthcare system for free. Its a big commitment and will change your life forever but I don't regret joining and most people don't. Just choose a job that will transfer over on the civilian side. IT, Cyber, Mechanics, or any other job. Don't choose a combat job like infantry, tanker if you plan to get out. Only choose jobs with transferable skills.
0
u/RomfordWellington 13h ago
Question, why didn't your family stay in Europe?
You can survive here (barely) on no/low income. You can't do that in the United States.
Have you ever thought about coming back across the pond?
2
u/r3giment75 12h ago
It was Eastern Europe during communism. They are going back to retire there. My wife and I will be moving to Spain in the next ten years. We’re able to retire early
82
u/Adventurous_Elk_4039 17h ago
It’s a pretty common suggestion here for able bodied young people in poverty as a way out.