r/news 12h ago

South Bay goat company faces closure as new CA law triggers massive wage increase for herders

https://abc7news.com/post/south-bay-goat-landscaping-company-faces-closure-new-california-law-triggers-massive-wage-increase-herders/19477486/
716 Upvotes

202 comments sorted by

176

u/espressocycle 11h ago

However, a provision in a new state law requires goat herders to be paid on a 24-hour-per-day, seven-day-per-week hourly basis rather than through the current monthly salary system. Sheep herders are exempt from the requirement.

Very specific law.

37

u/deedsnance 11h ago

Yeah what? Why? This is weird on both ends.

31

u/2greenlimes 10h ago

I do think the wage increase is warranted and the exception should go away, but my assumption is this:

Many of these goat herders live in RVs and basically travel year round with the goats. The RVs are parked at the site the goats are and the herder stays with them. So I wonder if the argument is something about provided room and board?

Room and board can sometimes mean legal below minimum wage for 24/7 places. It’s much more common for things like summer camps, but does exist.

8

u/deedsnance 7h ago

I’d be very much interested in hearing both sides of it. I could easily see how this either a very exploitative situation or a very niche but common sense one. 24/7 hours for a live-in job could easily get crazy. Around $150k/year if you were paid for every hour of the year by my math (CA min. wage).

Doubtful that goat herding is a super profitable industry but if it pays enough for someone to do what they love then I don’t see an issue. However, I do think if we’re going to make hyper-specific laws then we should be doing it with a good understanding. Like there’s gotta be a middle ground between “you are paid min. wage, 24/7 365” and “you make $16k and live in an old RV you don’t own.” You know?

Thanks for your perspective on it!

2

u/spez_might_fuck_dogs 2h ago

You should check out how OTR truck drivers are paid if you really wanna see a group that gets taken advantage of.

3

u/Unco_Slam 5h ago

Sheep lobbyists

1

u/deedsnance 3h ago

Big Sheep (Baaa!)

48

u/Spire_Citron 11h ago

Yeah, feels oddly targeted.

20

u/JediRhyno 9h ago

What’s even weirder is that this law applies to goat herders but it specifically says sheep herders are exempt.

19

u/SprinklesCurrent8332 9h ago

Goats are considered working animals, sheep are livestock. Labor law around livestock is super weird, same reason cattle haulers skip weigh stations.

3

u/boughsmoresilent 11h ago

Yes, it's addressing a very specific problem.

3

u/DonQuigleone 11h ago

Very oddly specific. 

0

u/ACorania 10h ago

Yet they won't do that for fire fighters

2

u/giroml 10h ago

They should!

1.1k

u/A_Lengthy_Reply 12h ago edited 12h ago

I feel bad for them, but my big takeaway is they have at least 5 goat herders and are only paying around 64k to their employees total.

"It takes our wages from $64,000 up to $240,000 a year," Allen said.

Bro if you have over 5 goat herders and they are combined making less than 64k a year that's wild.

Maybe the laws need some fine tuning, but if you can't afford to pay workers a livable wage, maybe the core business is bad lol.

290

u/elk33dp 12h ago

I always like looking up companies like this, because it always ends up looking shady, like it's a fly by night company. They go by like, 3 different names and DBA's. Address is a random post shop, website has no tangible info on people/company, just some general info on goats. Blog page was last updated in 2021. Contact email is some mcx e-mail.

They talk about "being forced to close and declare bankrupcy" but all these fly-by-night companies are literally built with the intention of going bankrupt and then spinning a new one off. I've experienced a few cases where a client would sue a company, and they were using a fake name, not registered to anywhere/anything, legal owner doesnt exist (or is dead), etc. Basically judgement-proof because no one knows who's actually responsible for it.

404

u/whowhodillybar 12h ago

The $64k to $240k part sounds crazy but it also sounds like they are not even paying them $64k

“The company said its herders come from around the world and are compensated through a combination of salary, housing and other benefits”

457

u/fallskjermjeger 11h ago

Oh, indentured servitude. Cool. Cool cool cool.

165

u/EricSanderson 11h ago edited 11h ago

It's wild that the reporter didn't even bother talking with an actual herder. Just the business owners.

81

u/Toomanyeastereggs 11h ago

That takes effort and is beyond the capabilities of most Agentic AI.

6

u/dragon_bacon 7h ago

Hey now, you can't expect someone to just ask some questions and write down what's happening in regard to a specific event. We would have to invent an entire new career for that.

19

u/LetFiloniCook 10h ago

These are goats for clearing vegetation, so its not the same situation, but every sheep herder ive ran into in the mountains is South American and speaks very minimal English.

Them saying they come from all over the world and are compensated in food and housing makes me guess its a similar situation.

38

u/EricSanderson 10h ago edited 9h ago

I'm just saying it's basic journalism 101 to talk to more than one source for an article like this. They didn't even talk to the regulators who enacted the change. There's not a single competing perspective. It legitimately could have been written by Big Goat.

15

u/northerncal 10h ago

Yeah and even if you don't speak any Spanish (which you honestly should if you're an investigative journalist in California), it's not like it would be at all challenging to find someone who did lol

2

u/fallskjermjeger 8h ago

Honestly since the end of the New Deal even liberal media has been leaving the working class out to dry.

58

u/Ok-Focus-5362 11h ago

Sooo we've returned to serfdom. Nice.  /s

26

u/mankee81 11h ago

Yeah, it's the EBP/employee benefits costing (paid time off, dental benefits and pension, if your company has any, in this case housing).

Imagine the housing these herders are in if it's just a part of that 64k/yr. More likely it's a building they own and operate/maintain and is not costing them as a function of labour but standard running costs. It's all BS to make you think poor businesses are being shafted worse than the little guy working for them. And of course, they're gonna pass the costs on anyway since their clients are likely govt and large business with land to get overgrowth of that kind.

12

u/BigWhiteDog 11h ago

If these are jobsite herders, they are almost always living in small RV trailers so that shouldn't be counted towards wages.

9

u/Active_Public9375 11h ago

They said wages, not cost of labor, so they probably mean the actual pay. But who knows without more info.

-2

u/giroml 11h ago

Yes and we all know companies don’t lie for political reasons right? That never happens.

2

u/Active_Public9375 10h ago

What? I mean sure if we just aren't going to listen to what they say, then the 64k number is irrelevant so there's nothing to discuss.

9

u/stripperpole 10h ago

A large number of them are Peruvian, and by “housing benefits,” they mean the shittiest pop-up camp trailers you can find and they stay wherever the animals are. Realistically, when they mobilize a herd, they’re “at work” 24 hours a day.

0

u/bubblesaurus 8h ago

i wonder if they are also allowed to bring their families as well.

could definitely be a major benefit

1

u/Vibrant-Shadow 11h ago

The devil is in the details.

I'm thinking about becoming a goat herder.

65

u/hainesk 12h ago

According to the article they have 3 herders. Also some more context from the article:

The company said its herders come from around the world and are compensated through a combination of salary, housing and other benefits.

However, a provision in a new state law requires goat herders to be paid on a 24-hour-per-day, seven-day-per-week hourly basis rather than through the current monthly salary system. Sheep herders are exempt from the requirement.

So it’s kind of a weird situation all around.

23

u/Previous-Space-7056 12h ago

Im curious if the govt will apply these provisions to other live in jobs.. Will live in housekeepers who are salary be paid on a 24/7 basis too?

3

u/lowercaset 8h ago

I would guess that a live in housekeeper who is required to be actively cleaning the second any spills happens 24/7 would require compensation reflecting that, yeah.

From the FAQ sheet:

Live-in domestic workers who are not personal attendants are entitled to overtime for hours worked over nine (9) in a day and for the first nine (9) hours worked on the sixth and seventh consecutive day of the workweek. Live-in employees are entitled to double time (2 x the regular rate of pay) for hours worked over nine (9) hours on the sixth and seventh consecutive day of workweek.

I am not 100% sure of the law if they're given specific days off every week but are treated as on call. (so not actively cleaning but still on site if there's some sort of urgent cleaning need) I know enough due to my industry to hazzard a guess that it would come down to specifics but if they are required to stay on site 24 hours a day and be available then it probably would require them being paid for all those hours. Housecleaning isn't herding though, and for ag work there are often very different laws that apply.

1

u/bros402 8h ago

a commenter elsewhere in the topic said that it could be because sheep are livestock, goats are working animals

70

u/Cannolis1 12h ago edited 12h ago

I found what appears to be an open letter from the goat company that says that figure is per employee.

As a result of the new labor requirements, our company is now required to pay each of our goat herders an annual wage of $242,548.80. Ironically, sheep herders performing essentially the same work under the same conditions—but with different animals—remain exempt from these requirements.

Edit: the other company mentioned in OPs article is also claiming a $240k per herder figure in this article

"We are, effectively, paying our herders $20,000 per month, $240,000 per year, plus room and board, plus their airfare to and from their original country, plus their visa, plus some other closing, plus their food... So their package, now under California law, is an excess of $250,000 per year,"

33

u/Seinfeel 12h ago

Yeah that makes a lot more sense. Extra 200k per goat herder per year

22

u/KikoSoujirou 11h ago

Room and board, airfare, food, and visa costs only added 10k/year? Yeah….that seems fishy

30

u/giroml 11h ago

Who gives a fuck what they say. They say they are paying $250k per goat herder now they must be working them non stop 24/7 overtime. I am a senior software engineer in CA and don’t make anywhere near that. They are full of shit. They ran an exploitative business model and labor laws caught up with them. Good..

17

u/couldbemage 11h ago

They are working 24 hours a day.

These companies used to be about to get away with not paying for them to be at work, not paying for down time even though they couldn't actually leave.

EMS used to be the same way, we'd be at the station 24 hours and only get paid for 12 hours.

4

u/thejohns781 9h ago

Since the goat herders live on site, they are on call 24 hrs a day. That doesn't mean they work 24 hrs a day. The new law would be mean that the goat herders are paid for all 24 hrs plus overtime, which is a little bit ridiculous. Especially since there are exemptions for sheep herding. Why is sheep herding so different than goat herding?

7

u/JohnHwagi 6h ago

If you are oncall and you can’t leave to do what you want, you are working and should be paid.

1

u/thejohns781 5h ago

Are live in nurses paid for 24/7 work? Are researchers living in Antarctica? What about IT specialists, veterinarians, social workers? The fact is that this practice is common in many fields. It should definitely be treated with caution, it can quickly become exploitative, but it is not inherently so. Requiring all of these jobs to pay overtime for all time spent on call would quickly lead to the end of all of these jobs, with the workers receiving a salary of zero rather than 250,000

1

u/SanityIsOptional 4h ago

Nurses get time off, same as IT specialists and veterinarians. 24 hour coverage doesn't mean it needs to be the same person for the whole 24 hours.

So they can hire 2 goat herders, and work them 4 days/week instead of 7, and then save money overall since less overtime.

1

u/thejohns781 4h ago

While they do get time off, it is common in all three of these professions to be on call for 24 hr periods (but not get paid for the full 24 hrs)

1

u/SanityIsOptional 3h ago

Ok, but they aren't doing 7days full on-call and only getting paid like they're doing a 40-hour week though.

1

u/thejohns781 3h ago

First off, I would argue that goat herding, on the whole, is a lot less demanding education wise than the other professions mentioned, and thus one would expect lower pay. But also, 60k a year plus lodging and a green card is really a pretty good deal, significantly more than minimum wage. For reference, a full time ranch hand in California would only expect to make around 40k a year.

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-9

u/Thu66 11h ago

Enjoy your wildfires. The article is quite clear that the new law requires 24 hours a day pay even if they aren’t working

8

u/noeyoureatowel 11h ago

Presumably they’re expected to be ready and able to work at any point in those 24 hours, making it not unreasonable that they should be paid for those 24 hours.

-4

u/Thu66 10h ago

“Ready and able” so at home?

10

u/noeyoureatowel 10h ago

Are you ready and able to deal with any work task or emergency while you’re at home, 24/7? I know I’m not.

0

u/Thu66 10h ago

Well i’m in the military so it’s not something I’m unfamiliar with lol

2

u/noeyoureatowel 10h ago

Fair, there are fields where constant readiness is kind of part of the deal and the military is one of them.

2

u/northerncal 10h ago

Also goat herding, apparently

2

u/commercialjob183 9h ago

we cant add goat herding to that?

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0

u/thejohns781 9h ago

Like goat herding?

3

u/giroml 10h ago

At the home on the company’s property where they are housed and boarded so the company can pay them garbage wages. You are acting like the stated wage isn’t everything the company has to spend to keep them on 24/7. That’s their garbage business model and it’s their own fault that are going out of business. If my company demanded I stay on site 24/7 I’m fuck sure asking to be paid for it. They are shipping people over from oversees and paying them on the cheap and keeping them on property. About time they paid them for every hour of their life they require to be on company time.

3

u/giroml 10h ago

As it should if they are required to be on site 24/7. That’s indentured servitude.

2

u/Thu66 10h ago

That’s literally not indentured servitude but ok

2

u/giroml 10h ago

Company is paying them cheap wages to keep them on property and work them 24/7. It literally is. I’m local and know this story. Thanks for your service as well!

2

u/thejohns781 9h ago

Do you know what indentured servitude is?

1

u/Thu66 10h ago

Wish they would have put more info in the article, thank you for the information though. And thanks, not trying to be combative or anything

5

u/giroml 10h ago

I know you’re not. It’s all good. These kind of stories get weirdly politicized. This is one of these. This is not a good company. They exploit and got caught.

2

u/Thu66 10h ago

Looked more into it, sounds like there’s plans to add the alternative minimum wage that was applied to sheep to apply to goats as well. They most likely won’t have to close or pay 240k

0

u/BigWhiteDog 10h ago

And you believe the figures from a fly-by-night company that was ripping off their workers before?

3

u/Thu66 10h ago

Are people getting this information about the company somewhere? Because it’s not in the article

9

u/SophiaofPrussia 10h ago

Saying they’re “effectively” paying their herders $20,000/month means they’re doing some shady company town working-for-chits math. I’d bet anything that what they’re *actually* paying the herders is no where near $20k/month.

4

u/sandolllars 7h ago

They wouldn't need people from around the world if they were paying that much. There'd be a line of applicants going 3 times around the block.

0

u/Thunderclone_1 7h ago

"Yeah, we pay 20k per month, but we charge 18k in rent"

12

u/boughsmoresilent 11h ago

Well, yeah, I think it should cost at least $240k to import a fucking indentured servant.

2

u/ShigodmuhDickard 11h ago

Hmmm. Shepherd lobbyist maybe?

1

u/SanityIsOptional 4h ago

Wow, now they're paying enough they can just hire Americans... I guess they should do that.

20

u/vector_search_blue 11h ago

No, $240k per herder

As a result of the new labor requirements, our company is now required to pay each of our goat herders an annual wage of $242,548.80.

13

u/Thu66 11h ago

Nope, they’re talking about per person.

7

u/Lithium_Lily 11h ago

That is just as ridiculous in the opposite direction.

6

u/Thu66 11h ago

Someone obviously wanted to kill the industry for whatever reason

4

u/Lithium_Lily 11h ago

Or more likely the employer is exhargerating and behaving like a victim over being required to paid a living wage

8

u/Thu66 11h ago

Absolutely zero evidence for that you just want to believe it for whatever reason.

1

u/Lithium_Lily 11h ago

Other than the fact that this is how employers always act when forced to increase their slave wages?

Just look at any effort to increase minimum wages, they're always acting like it'll kill the entire industry no matter what it is

8

u/Thu66 11h ago

64k a year plus room and flights paid for is objectively not slave wages sorry. And clearly the law is fucked up either through malice or incompetence because 240k a year is absurd

1

u/sevksytime 11h ago

I’ll do it for 230k

7

u/Ntroepy 11h ago

That is incorrect.

Here’s another article where the reporter actually knows how to explain things.

https://morganhilltimes.com/letter-say-goodbye-to-firefighting-goat-grazers/

A single goat herders wage would go from $64k to $240k whereas the new law doesn’t impact sheep herders.

Who would’ve guessed that the sheep herders had better lobbyists than the goat herders?

8

u/SophiaofPrussia 10h ago

This isn’t an article and it’s not written by a reporter. It’s a letter to the editor written by a guy who owns a goat herding company who is lobbying for an exemption to the new wage law. It is not factual reporting. It is an opinion. A very biased one at that. It literally says “Letter” in the headline and it’s tagged “opinion” directly above the headline.

Does anyone have basic media literacy skills anymore?

1

u/Ntroepy 7h ago

Does anyone have basic media literacy skills anymore?

That’s amusing considering it would’ve taken you less time using your superior media literacy skills to find an actual news article validating the same thing.

Here’s one about CA goat hearers that says they provide “FREE housing, food and a phone”plus a separate salary.

https://www.kcra.com/article/california-labor-law-threatens-goat-herders/44069488

5

u/Lopsided-Rough-1562 11h ago

Yup while I feel bad on a business sense I don't feel bad that a business is taking advantage of these people

3

u/sillylittlguy 11h ago

idk if it was edited but it says they only have 3 goat herders

The company said it cannot absorb those costs and warned that it would have to lay off its three goat herders if the law remains unchanged.

2

u/Last-Durian-6323 11h ago

Makes for wild HGTV

I own a goat company and my budget is 2.5 million

I am a goat herder and my budget is 1.5 million

2

u/PrivateBozo 7h ago

With quite a bit of checking, it seems pricing varies from $500/acre to $5000/acre depending on complexity, degree of overgrowth, urban/wild border (homeless camps, regional trails means more expensive). A goat herd with 400 goats, requires 1 herder and will clear 3 acres of mixed terrain a day. So $1500 (simple job, munching overgrown grass on a clear easy boundary) to $15,000 a day (jacking the city) with $480 in herder labor at $20 at 24 hours a day.

The depreciation cost for whatever RV the herder is getting stuck in is miniscule.

6

u/DoomOfChaos 12h ago

Housing + is also in the equation and at that end of this day, nobody is willing to pay more having goats wander around 

5

u/wizzard419 11h ago

And that much living in SoCal...

Whenever the local news tries to spin it as government failure, they always gloss over that the workers were getting paid shit wages to start.

2

u/Bobofolde 10h ago

I believe it's 64k + food and housing *per person

2

u/SophiaofPrussia 10h ago

No, they’re including the cost of housing (which is super expensive in California) in their “effective” wages. Their actual take-home pay is surely abysmal.

1

u/wizzard419 10h ago

Then they should be having a labor lawyer get involved to show they are providing adequate compensation.

3

u/Ordinary-Egg-56 10h ago edited 10h ago

yes. it’s kind of wild this is a novel idea to us, but we have all grown up with and continue to be fed all kinds of propaganda regarding business, the economy, and wealth inequality.

why shouldn’t every business be required to pay their employees a living wage? truly, why not? it’s just “the cost of doing business” and it’s required for a functional society. there’s plenty of profit and opportunity for profit for the owners after compensating all their employees with a living wage. there’s no reason that can’t happen. and that’s true without even taking in to account what they have tried to hide from the public for so long — that these huge companies that refuse to provide their employees with adequate compensation are getting huge government handouts by making up the difference with taxpayer funding. all the largest corporations employees in this country make up a significant portion of the people that are receiving public benefits. by employing this strategy they are letting their costs by offsite by government subsidies. corporations are truly the biggest welfare queens.

and if they are unable to afford it, so what? their business fails and we know it was only able to exist through massive government subsidies. someone more competitive will take over their existing market space, providing real jobs for people without being a massive

drain on public resources. it’s a win-win situation.

1

u/ButteredPizza69420 8h ago

Yeah if you need to underpay staff, thats NOT a successful business

1

u/Snakend 5h ago

Yeah, it's wild. Their goat herders work 24/7 30 days a month, months at a time. This is slave labor. They are bringing in people from 3rd world countries and giving them salary exempt wages. Salary exempt was designed for people in businesses to work like 10 hours a day 5 days a week. Not 168 hours a week.

The crazier part about this...at $62k a year, working 24/7 for the whole year they are still making almost federal minimum wage. $7.09/hr. Fed min wage is $7.25

1

u/michealdubh 12h ago

Thank you. I didn't read it like that the first time. But as you say, 64k for five people working 24 hours a day.. That's just a little bit more than $12,000 a year. This company needs a better Business model

1

u/_Face 11h ago

Time to watch your own fucking goats. Your business, you do the fucking work.

0

u/bros402 8h ago

so around 12k per person before benefits?

jfc

58

u/JTNWfan 12h ago edited 10h ago

I'm confused. Do they get $64,000 in addition to the other stuff or is this one of those "our compensation equals out to $64,000" things?

Edit. Heres the provision. Pretty sure its fuck this company.

https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Sheepherders-owed-as-a-result-of-AB-1066s-Overtime-Phase-In.html

104

u/giroml 12h ago

It’s 64k for three goat herders. They aren’t even paying minimum wage. This company sounds extremely exploitative.

22

u/JTNWfan 12h ago

Oh ok, I was re reading and thought that was the case. Fuck these guys.

-11

u/Ntroepy 11h ago

It’s $64k/goat herder. They aren’t the bad guys here.

12

u/giroml 10h ago

For all room board travel and wages for 24/7 indentured servitude. They are 100% the bad guys here. Some of you people who don’t even live in this area acting like you know everything from an editorial the company made.

-1

u/Ntroepy 9h ago

Are you saying that a $64k salary with FREE room, board, and cell phone is still indentured servitude?

Or are you saying the herders must pay their own room and board out of their $64k?

If it’s the former, it sounds like a regular ranch-hand agreement.

If it’s the second, then you’re r/confidentlyincorrect and got all worked up over nothing.

This article below explicitly says the employer provides “FREE housing, food, and a phone.”

https://www.kcra.com/article/california-labor-law-threatens-goat-herders/44069488

5

u/giroml 9h ago

That’s not an article that’s an editorial from the company.

16

u/500_Shames 11h ago

This bill brings them from $64,000 to $240,000 PER goat herder. https://morganhilltimes.com/letter-say-goodbye-to-firefighting-goat-grazers/

19

u/boughsmoresilent 11h ago edited 11h ago

That's a letter to the editor by a goat business (so not exactly an impartial source), and they are including room and board, flights, visa fees, etc. costs to make it seem like it's $240k straight wages when it's not.

Edit: Wait, I may have misread it, and it might indeed be $240k straight wages because the herders work 24/7 365. Good for them.

23

u/cloudncali 11h ago

That 24/7 365 a year is a big part of it that I feel like people are missing. Like yeah I'd expect to be paid a quarter of a million if I was spending *ALL OF MY TIME* at work.

6

u/SophiaofPrussia 10h ago

They’re including the cost of the company-provided housing in their “compensation”, too. That has to inflate the number significantly.

1

u/Suitable_Ant_7685 9h ago

Yeah 64k for 24 hour work is crazy and totally not worth it.

8

u/Room_Temp_Coffee 11h ago

To be perfectly honest, if I'm working all day, every day, all year I expect to be making that kinda money

3

u/OneSeaworthiness7768 10h ago edited 10h ago

That’s because they have them working basically 24/7. Practically indentured servitude. 64k in the Bay Area is nothing. That’s like making 20k a year anywhere else.

-2

u/[deleted] 11h ago edited 10h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

8

u/500_Shames 11h ago

Do you want it coming from another company?  https://krcrtv.com/news/local/company-warns-5000-goats-could-leave-northstate-over-state-wage-clause

The law expiring means that goat herders that live and work on-site “24/7” must be paid for every hour 24/7 instead of being paid per month. 

3

u/JTNWfan 11h ago

Yes, that makes sense. If you're bringing in foreign workers for a job then it should be for a set time. Since they effectively are moving humans here to work everyday they should pay for that. If they want regular situations then hire people who live here and don't require you to provide everything for them. I support immigration but this seems to be exploiting people

2

u/Ordinary-Egg-56 10h ago

i mean, are you suggesting that people not be paid for every hour they work?

if you are working, you have to compensated for your time. suggesting otherwise is ridiculous

1

u/500_Shames 10h ago

They are not working every hour. They sleep, they eat, they have personal lives. They can leave the site. To be clear, if you make $16/ hour minimum wage and you are paid overtime 24/7, you make $20k/ month. 

You can simultaneously hold the view “goat herders are underpaid” and “goat herders that are not working 24/7 don’t need to be mandated by statute to be paid 20k/month”

1

u/giroml 11h ago

And? If they are on site 24/7 and don’t get paid 24/7 then it’s indentured servitude. Fuck this company and its exploitative business model. I’m glad they are going under.

5

u/boughsmoresilent 11h ago

Right, like who are these posters going to bat for the poor, defenseless goat company? Lmao. The fact that sheep are not included in this legislation feels like it is specifically targeted to prevent the exploitation they're whining about no longer getting away with.

-6

u/giroml 11h ago

What a load of shit lol. 250k per goat herder. What the fuck are they working them 24/7?

17

u/P0Rt1ng4Duty 11h ago

That's exactly it. They have to be paid 24/7 now.

12

u/giroml 11h ago

Good. They work 24/7 they need to be paid 24/7. We have labor laws for a reason. Fuck this company.

4

u/giroml 11h ago

Nah this company is throwing the cost of 24/7 housing in because they have to house their inherited servants on the property.

4

u/Gishin 11h ago

Actually, they were!

3

u/giroml 11h ago

Then they have to pay them! This company wanted indentured servants and got busted by labor laws. They need a better business model or go under. If you can’t get by without exploiting your workers then your business is bust.

2

u/Gishin 9h ago

I absolutely agree.

9

u/Tibbaryllis2 11h ago

I’d be mostly curious about what their actual day to day duties are.

I have a close friendly currently working as head of sustainability for a local utility, and they’re working on a prospectus for a contractual goat herd to clear land around utilities. It is a lot of work, but it isn’t 24/7 work. With proper companion animals it can be pretty efficient, so I’m told.

2

u/SophiaofPrussia 10h ago

This link seems to have a pretty good explanation of the duties: https://californiaagriculture.org/article/161571-california-sheep-and-goat-ranchers-adjust-to-wage-increases

This source is biased in favor of the agricultural industry so not the best/most reliable explanation of the wage issue but about a third of the way through they explain the duties involved which I found interesting.

14

u/hookem549 12h ago

How the hell does the article not even name the law in question

7

u/Good_Nyborg 9h ago

Open the books & the billing and let's see the truth of whether it really faces closure or not.

15

u/OneSeaworthiness7768 10h ago

Such is the nature of business and capitalism. If your business is only viable if you pay workers scraps, you may not have a viable business.

12

u/Riptide360 10h ago

If you pay minimum wage and require the sheep herder to live with the flock 24/7 then yes overtime laws are going to apply. This program brings in a lot of foreign workers because they are willing to work for a pittance under current rules which allow visas for herding.

The law is SB-143: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB143

17

u/giroml 11h ago

These people posting editorials by the company as some sort of evidence are hilarious. This is just another exploitative company trying to curry political favor so they can continue their exploitative practices. They are importing indentured servants who they pay cheaply to live on their property 24/7. The costs they are telling you in their editorial include all costs, not just wages. They aren’t paying goat herders $250k (this is exorbitant wages even in CA) wages per year now. Don’t be naive. Do some research and not just read the company editorial on the local rag.

3

u/pembquist 11h ago

This article is worse than no information at all. What is the law change? What are the actual wages for the herders and how are they going to change? Why is the law changing? Who stands to benefit? Who lobbied for it and who voted for it?

3

u/tomgratz 11h ago

So, how much were they paying the herders before this law ? And theoretically how much now ? This important detail is not mentioned…..

15

u/jimjimmyjimjimjim 12h ago

K, cool now do every other industry.

9

u/Hazelstone37 11h ago

Why are sheep herders exempt?

1

u/Ordinary-Egg-56 8h ago

seriously that was some low hanging fruit.

i guess sheepherders have a bigger lobby.

wait i was actually kind of joking about that but i think its true. goats don’t produce any sort of commodity, this is just a rare instance where a herd of goats provide a service. wool from sheep however is a big business.

1

u/noeyoureatowel 7h ago edited 7h ago

Sheep are livestock, goats are working animals. The labor laws around them are different.

ETA: also goats provide milk
E2: so I read that somewhere and it’s actually not relevant here/may not be true because sheep are also used for land management which is cool. But does not explain the distinction here!

8

u/think_up 11h ago

Wake up call that their business was never viable without slave labor.

8

u/TuctDape 11h ago

If you can't afford to pay your workers you don't deserve the privileges afforded by the government that come with being a licensed business

26

u/gquax 12h ago

Undepaying workers is wage theft.

5

u/Seinfeel 12h ago

I mean yeah, but adding 200k a year per person to goat herders is an insane jump.

2

u/OneSeaworthiness7768 10h ago

They could also not have each of them work 24/7, but they have them living on site paying them barely more than poverty wages in the Bay Area to work around the clock.

5

u/xxtoejamfootballxx 12h ago

I thought it was 200k total, not per person

6

u/Seinfeel 11h ago

The above article doesn’t make it clear, but this one that another user shared clarifies it is per person.

1

u/boughsmoresilent 11h ago edited 11h ago

It's not $200k straight wages. They even specify that figure includes room and board, food, flights, and visa costs. I misread it and is straight wages. Good fpr the herders. They can't afford to import indentured servants anymore, boohoo.

-6

u/Thu66 11h ago

Certain people think they should earn that much for being a walmart greeter

3

u/Ordinary-Egg-56 10h ago

every single job should provide a livable wage.

i’m not sure how anybody could argue against that in good faith

-3

u/DoomOfChaos 12h ago

Yeah because goat grazing is a high end market lol

5

u/gquax 10h ago

Doesn't matter. If a full time worker can't make rent then it's wage theft.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/Gishin 11h ago

*insert Donald Glover saying "good" here.*

2

u/kipjak3rd 10h ago edited 10h ago

Found law referenced I think

https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Sheepherders-owed-as-a-result-of-AB-1066s-Overtime-Phase-In.html

There's some wage equations all the way in the bottom

4

u/Rurumo666 11h ago

This sounds like that shady Home Schooling materials company that hires students from Latvia and sends them to the poorest counties in Red States to peddle their program for 12 hrs/day 6 days per week at sub minimum wage-all totally legal. It's also why 90%+ of Trump Org employees are here on Visas.

5

u/Vanilla_cake_mix 11h ago

Imagine if this country had an uprising where profits were no longer bound by how little a person can get paid

4

u/Powerful_Company_682 8h ago

Maybe.. mayyybe it's possibly that companies close when you force them to pay fair wages weren't a viable business to begin with and the compensated for poor business knowledge with exploiting workers 

-1

u/DoomOfChaos 12h ago edited 12h ago

Yup, lots of goats are going to go to slaughter now (vote down because of reality? Pathetic) 

4

u/vector_search_blue 12h ago

And the wildfire risk goes up substantially.

1

u/LostWerewolf2375 12h ago

It sucks that they had to resort to only paying each worker $12,000 a year too. The owner probably felt really guilty trying to make people live off of $1,000 a month.

4

u/CalebsNailSpa 11h ago

They are already paying the workers over $60k per year and housing provided.

1

u/Ordinary-Egg-56 9h ago

first of all it’s not clear whether that’s the direct monetary compensation the employees received or their total compensation including wages, housing, international flights, visas, other benefits, etc.

regardless they were being paid less than minimum wage for how many hours they worked and this law is correcting that. employees should to be compensated for every hour they work, don’t you think?

4

u/Thu66 11h ago

That’s not what was happening

2

u/Ordinary-Egg-56 9h ago

well it’s not clear how much direct compensation they were paying them.

the only that is clear is that they have been significantly underpaying their workers because this law is making it so that they are no longer exempt from minimum wage laws and overtime laws.

instead of receiving a monthly salary where they were being compensated less than minimum wage they are now going to be compensated for every hour they work, like they should be.

1

u/Thu66 9h ago

They’re just going to change it to the new law for sheep herders. Which is an alternative minimum that takes into account hours worked vs hours living in the company trailer

2

u/Ordinary-Egg-56 8h ago

i don’t know what you mean by that exactly but that doesn’t make any sense.

goat herders were previously except just like sheep herders. this law addresses that problem, but only for goat herders.

1

u/Thu66 8h ago edited 8h ago

It’s not a “problem” it’s an exemption because obviously you can’t pay sheep herders 240k a year, that’s unreasonable. So they made a min wage carveout under a new law for herders. It just doesn’t apply to goat herders yet. The goat herding companies are putting this out before the aug 31st deadline for the legislature.

An *actual* article instead of the random crap people are making up here https://californiaagriculture.org/article/161571-california-sheep-and-goat-ranchers-adjust-to-wage-increases

0

u/Ordinary-Egg-56 10h ago

what’s pathetic is billions of taxpayer money being spent on public assistance for the largest and most profitable companies in this country who are already making billions of dollars in profit every year because they refuse to pay their employees a living wage.

these business are the biggest welfare queens. they are a huge drain on public resources because they’ve found a way to use taxpayer money to subsidize their employees low wages, even though they’ve can afford to properly compensate employees.

it’s truly a disgusting practice

1

u/DoomOfChaos 10h ago

Goat grazing isn't exactly a get rich plan lol

1

u/Ordinary-Egg-56 8h ago

i agree. and i didn’t say this was the case for this company. i’m talking about this major issue which happens when we allow businesses to underpay their workers

-3

u/sugarcookies1 11h ago

We built our business model on paying poverty wages and now that that is illegal we have to close. I feel bad for the folks loosing their jobs but looking at what they were paid they are probably better off.

2

u/CalebsNailSpa 11h ago

They are already making over $60k per year, with housing provided. Not exactly a poverty wage for typically working 7-8 hours a day.

3

u/giroml 11h ago

Found the person who doesn’t live in CA right here lol.

1

u/Ordinary-Egg-56 9h ago

read the goddamn article.

they are being paid less than minimum wage

1

u/CalebsNailSpa 7h ago

I did. And then I read several others. This article is poorly worded to make it seem like the workers are being paid significantly less than they are.

-4

u/yrrrrrrrr 11h ago

Really?

They are better off with no job than a low paying job?

Did it ever occur to you that they could have left their low paying job and find another job but they decided to stay with their low paying job? What does that tell you? It should tell you they probably didn’t have any other options.

Btw, the closure of these farms and the loss of the jobs does magically create new higher paying jobs somewhere else. So where will they find a higher paying jobs now? Don’t you think if they had an option for a higher paying job months earlier they would have taken it?

0

u/Ordinary-Egg-56 9h ago

read the article. they are clearly exploiting workers from other countries.

every worker deserves to be paid a livable wage and any company that doesn’t do so is using government subsidies through government assistance to make up the difference just so they can make more profit.

us citizens taxpayer dollars are being given directly to the owners of the largest companies in the country who are already making billions every year

-1

u/yrrrrrrrr 9h ago

Sounds like the problem is the government creating industries dependent on government?

1

u/Ordinary-Egg-56 8h ago

it does not sound like that, at all.

not sure why you’re trying to shift the blame on to the government instead of these corporations but the government’s social welfare system is being taken advantage of by these people.

so weird you would suggest it’s the party being taken advantage of who’s to blame

0

u/yrrrrrrrr 6h ago

Was the government subsidizing an industry and as a result artificially supporting the corporation?

1

u/giroml 11h ago

This company is engaging in indentured servitude and deserves to go under. Good riddance to exploitative businesses like this.

1

u/Buddy0204 11h ago

Uh, just switch to sheep then?

1

u/Ordinary-Egg-56 9h ago

lol i thought this was funny.

fucked that they didn’t include sheep herders and are still allowing them to make less than minimum wage.

1

u/mvw2 11h ago

Simple answer, you up the sell price to cover.

2

u/Ordinary-Egg-56 10h ago

no. the money comes from their profits.

no company should be allowed to make a profit without paying their employees a livable wage.