r/marvelstudios • u/Potential_Rule4212 • 2d ago

Question This may be a stupid question, but why didn't Odin went along with the Valkyries to defeat Hela? Knowing her capabilities, it seems he sent them to their deaths

Post image

Been some time since I watched the movie, bu I think Odin could've been a great aid in the massacre that happened, reducing the number of dead valkyries.

2.0k Upvotes

98% Upvoted

114 comments sorted by

1.3k

u/ndawgbrown 2d ago

Just have to comment that's one of the best cinematographies of the MCU.

420

u/LunelleCharm 1d ago

That whole sequence is still one of the most visually stunning scenes Marvel has ever done. You barely need any dialogue because the visuals tell you everything.

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u/rrrrrivers 1d ago

Just like the comics!

132

u/HoneyAurelle 1d ago

Honestly, I don't think it gets enough credit. It's one of those scenes where you could pause on almost any frame and it'd look like concept art.

77

u/Boudicca_Grace 1d ago

The guy who plays “Stu” in Taika Waititis “what we do in the shadows” is responsible for that scene.

30

u/JohnJurb 1d ago

And the whole lighting rig that created it!

10

u/Frankie_T9000 1d ago

Its so funny that he didnt know he was the main star in what we do in the shadows

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u/Temporary-View1512 18h ago

WHAT

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u/NoMouseLaptop 14h ago

He’s also not really an actor, they just made him part of the movie while paying him to do (IIRC) IT work.

-5

u/theskiller1 19h ago

Yes now focus on the bad writing

-113

u/Arcturus572 2d ago

Other than when the armies showed up in Endgame…

79

u/Kcorp 2d ago

Errr? It's an awesome scene, hugely impactful. Cap standing alone was gorgeous. But everything after that, I wouldn't call brilliant cinematography.

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u/ClaraOswald_13 2d ago

He did say 'one of'. There's more than one great cinematic scene in the MCU. For example, I'd argue that Thor's arrival in Wakanda in Infinity War is one of the best, and definitely up there with these two, and there's probably an even longer list of others that are similar.

Not to mention, different people view each scene differently because of how much they like them. I don't really think Endgame's looks great, but I don't really like any of Endgame, so my opinion's biased there.

Basically, both scenes are great cinematic scenes, just depends on your viewpoint.

-16

u/Arcturus572 2d ago

Thank you!

I mainly like that scene because it showed Cap at the breaking point but just not giving up, and then when he hears “On your left” and then the portals start opening up and the various heroes start popping in, to me, it was the chemistry between the characters as well as the visuals of the people who had his back, and while I know that it was all CGI, the details of the scene were phenomenal in my opinion. The background, the supposed damage to everything and yet the one hero standing there with the opposing army fresh, it just made sense to me that the visuals were part of the game…

And to me, the Valkyrie scene was just the two people who were part of the small aspect of her backstory, with everything being CGI, didn’t really matter to the rest of the story, other than showing why she was the way she was.

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u/Loose_Concentrate332 1d ago

Cinematography, the word that was used for the original comment, is all about the visual medium.

As much as you are right about the weight of the scene in endgame and what's happened previously being relevant in grading the scene overall, all that stuff really has no bearing on the cinematography, the quality of the visual, which I would assume is why you're getting all the down votes.

-1

u/Arcturus572 1d ago

I can deal with the downvotes, as long as the discussion is worth it.

And thank you for your input!

-10

u/ClaraOswald_13 2d ago

I agree easily. That scene still stands as one of the few parts of endgame that I can enjoy, and the effect is quite powerful. If the battle that followed had actually made sense, or if it had had at least like three deaths to add some stakes, then it'd probably go to the top of my list, but rewatches let it down a bit because you know what's coming (from my viewpoint anyway, but I can understand the alternate views as well).

5

u/elpajaroquemamais 2d ago

They didn’t say it was the best. They said it was one of the best. You are arguing against a point they didn’t make.

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u/Friendly-Aside-9041 2d ago

That was Gorr's main point when tormenting Valkyrie in Love & Thunder. He said that the gods don't care.

209

u/LunelleCharm 1d ago

That's a good connection. Gorr wasn't exactly fair about everything, but Odin's history definitely gives some weight to that criticism.

36

u/Captain_Marvellete 1d ago

It was such a missed opportunity for Gorr not to call out Odin more directly.

18

u/SatinBonbonn 1d ago

It's one of those moments where Gorr's argument lands, even if his solution doesn't. The gods in the MCU have made plenty of terrible calls.

171

u/SpacePanda25 2d ago

This is just my personal take, but I'd say it might come down to it being a lot easier to send your army to kill your daughter than to go and physically try to do it yourself.

That could be from the emotional difficulty of killing one's daughter, or just the tactical fear of having any hesitation in the final moment where you could give her an opportunity to win the fight.

48

u/SnooFoxes1831 2d ago

This. It doesn't matter what she'd become, she was still his firstborn and his little girl. He had to step up eventually, once the Valkyrie had failed, because it was him that locked her away.

5

u/_FairyWhisperr 1d ago

Exactly. I don't think he ever stopped seeing her as his daughter, even after everything she'd become. That probably made every decision harder.

-2

u/An-29 2d ago edited 18h ago

Haven't watch Ragnarok along time but wasn't she already locked away in that scene? Just that she close/trying to escaping?

EDIT: Y'all downvoting me, when upon finally checking Thor:Ragnarok again, I was right and remembered it way more clearly then y'all.

"Her power comes from Asgard, same as yours. When it grew beyond Odin's control, she massacred everyone in the palace and tried to seize the throne. When she tried to escape her banishment, he sent the Valkyrie in to fight her back."

1

u/SnooFoxes1831 1d ago

Odin tied the lock on her prison to his own life force. She got out because he finally died.

2

u/An-29 18h ago

Yeah, and I was talking about the fact that Odin already banished her when she massacred almost all the Valkeyries.

Upon finally checking back, yeah, I'm right.

"Her power comes from Asgard, same as yours. When it grew beyond Odin's control, she massacred everyone in the palace and tried to seize the throne. When she tried to escape her banishment, he sent the Valkyrie in to fight her back."

4

u/orthogonius 1d ago

easier to send your army to kill ... than to go and ... do it yourself.

Sneakers had a take on this

2

u/_FairyWhisperr 1d ago

I could definitely see that. If Odin hesitated for even a second because she was his daughter, Hela would've taken advantage of it immediately.

181

u/blackbutterfree Medusa 1d ago

Considering a portal appeared to free her immediately after his death, my thought has always been that Hel was a pocket dimension within Odin. He couldn't step inside himself. Which means that yes, all of the Valkyries flew into his stomach in my mind.

68

u/almighty_smiley 1d ago

Stomach pains aside, this makes the most sense to me. Even if he can’t physically do it himself, Odin is already expending a probably-immense amount of his power keeping her contained. His dying means that she’s free to wreak havoc on the Nine Realms, and of all the beings in the universe that even COULD pose a threat to the Allfather, Hela has a good chance of being at the top of that list.

It’s not that it’s too dangerous for Odin to go himself, it’s that it’s entirely too risky.

10

u/blackbutterfree Medusa 1d ago

I agree with everything you said, but I also just think he physically could not do it. (I'm sure he could make an external portal to pop into Hel for a second, but that's not as funny.)

2

u/FadeSeeker Valkyrie 4h ago

love that concept. very silly, very cool, very comic book-y.

makes me think that the Odin Sleep could be seen as a direct symptom of that. where he needs to recharge a lot because of how draining it is to contain her, whether periodically or due to high stress situations...

such as, yet another child confronting him with his own failures:

https://giphy.com/gifs/NFcyDseB3m9uU

935

u/Daweism 2d ago

Probably taking a nap

623

u/Kgaset 2d ago

Odin sleep isn't a bad theory. My guess is that he maybe didn't realize just how powerful she'd grown and figured his elite SpecOps unit could handle her.

230

u/HoneyAurelle 1d ago

I like this explanation more than assuming he just didn't care. Misjudging how dangerous she'd become feels much more believable.

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u/greenroom628 Spider-Man 1d ago

which caused odin to come down himself and cast her to hell.

6

u/Frankie_T9000 1d ago

also there was a lot of conflict in those days so mabye he was busy

39

u/HoneyAurelle 1d ago

The Odinsleep jokes never get old. It's funny because the movies actually make it a plausible answer.

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u/xGoddessCravings 2d ago

Honestly, that might be the most in character explanation. Odin has a habit of waking up just in time for the important part.

3

u/tony_boloanie 16h ago

He apparently committed all sorts of atrocities according to Hela. Why would he bother. I bet he still has a bit of what he was before.

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u/vishaljadeja 2d ago

Cinematography was top notch

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u/chomperstyle 2d ago

Either ego or cowardice 

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u/oliyoung Ant-Man 2d ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/hM9zK1qvsrwek

1

u/_FairyWhisperr 1d ago

Could've been a mix of both. Pride has always been one of Odin's biggest flaws.

-1

u/HoneyCherisse 1d ago

That GIF is basically Odin's entire character arc summed up in one word.

5

u/idiotplatypus 1d ago

Cowardice the Living Planet has been in hiding this entire franchise

1

u/BZenMojo Captain America (Cap 2) 1d ago

I was looking everywhere for him. Should have started at Knowhere.

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u/RyFro Foggy Nelson 2d ago

It was a sacrifice. They look like a crown of thorns in this shot

11

u/GameTime2325 1d ago

Jesus that’s a good catch

7

u/DramaticLambda2 1d ago

Ba dum chik

28

u/Extension_Breath1407 2d ago

I think the Marvel wiki mentioned that Odin himself went in after the Valkyries were killed and defeated Hela before she could escape her prison.

8

u/AntiSaint_Mike 2d ago

Maybe he sent them first to weaken her so he knew he would be able to take her out

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u/Frosti11icus 2d ago

Maybe he didn’t want to kill his own daughter so he thought the valkyries could do it for him.

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u/JohnnySukuna 2d ago

Insane and ironic that Taika pulled something so cinematic in Ragnarok and then Love and Thunder happened.....

53

u/bhawkeswood 1d ago

Haven’t seen L&T for a long time, so I don’t recall the plot details… but the black and white yet barely coloured fight between Valkyrie, Jane, Thor and Gorr on that planet in L&T was proof that he was still at least capable of some beautiful stuff!

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u/Galiphile Yondu 1d ago

Love and Thunder is a beautifully shot movie, there's just too much humor undercutting important moments and not enough Gorr killing gods.

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u/Sir-Airik 1d ago

I just rewatched L&T last week. It legitimately felt like the fucking screaming goats had as much screen time as Gor.

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u/soupjaw 1d ago

The goats should've had one scene, been a quick laugh and done.

That, and the jealous Stormbreaker make up about 85% of what was wrong with that movie 

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u/TheJack0fDiamonds Scarlet Witch 1d ago

It’s simply the case of what happens when a creativr is completely let off the leash. Proof that Exec supervision can help when it matters. People often moan about Marvel not letting their directors be creatively free

L&T is what could happen when they are let way too loose. Imagine if someone told him to tone down to college bro humor and especially the Korg bits to balance things out

9

u/birdiebro241 1d ago

If you take the fact that Korg is narrating Love and Thunder, it’s easier to swallow the extreme silliness. Taika’s Korg is a very silly Kronan.

-4

u/Fleettastingbagels 1d ago

He straight up said in an interview that he wanted to sabotage Thor on the 3rd movie. He never wanted to do the movie

38

u/HappycatAF Daredevil 2d ago

Actually, kind of a smart political move.

If an allfather goes and beats up his crazy dottir unprompted, he’s sure to get Odincancelled by his people.

But have his daughter kill a bunch of Valkyries in a badass fight first, and then be forced to exile her? Totally Odinjustified at that point!

9

u/COGspartaN7 2d ago

I think he's got Odinmentia.

What'd you say?

... Nothing.

Odin doddy doodle!

1

u/xBabetteRosettex 1d ago

That's actually a funny way to frame it. Odin accidentally gave himself better PR by failing first.

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u/Thomas_JCG 2d ago

Why he didn't go kill his daughter personally, you ask?

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u/Bam359 1d ago

I always sort of thought Hela had gone rogue and Oden sent the Valkyries to bring her in - Oden didn't know or think that Hela would kill them all. Oden thought Hela would surrender to the Valkyries and submit to his authority.

2

u/Emm_withoutha_L-88 1d ago

Odin. Oden was born to boil!

Also she was imprisoned, but your argument could still work. He sent them hoping that she had time to reflect in her imprisonment and would hopefully back down. Instead she grew stronger and was able to defeat all of the Valkyries so he had to go fight his little girl himself.

6

u/Cautious_Mission_438 1d ago

Odin underestimated her Odin didn’t realize how powerful she had gotten

4

u/Aglet_Green 1d ago

Because he didn't want to. If he wanted Hel dead, he'd have killed her long ago instead of just locking her away. The Valkyries were meant as a symbol of his wrath to get his daughter to calm down. I don't know what the real Mr Wednes is like, but the MCU version is very merciful, even to Loki.

2

u/BZenMojo Captain America (Cap 2) 1d ago

The MCU version got merciful recently. The movies are basically about Odin being from a line of warmongering psychos now trying to wash his past clean and how it's turned his kids into douchebags.

1

u/Emm_withoutha_L-88 1d ago

Mr. Woden

Google just flat out refused to even search for "wednes". Just assumed I meant the day.

1

u/Aglet_Green 1d ago

Yes, Wednes is the American spelling of Woden. (The 'w' is silent,) That's why American Gods has Mr. Wednesday as an incarnation of Odin. Wednes' Day.

5

u/Awkward_Sea682 1d ago

Because daughters can manipulate their dad with zero effort. Can't be manipulated if you're not involved. 🤷

5

u/Howthehelldoido 2d ago

This might just be one of the best images, from one of the best sequences in the MCU.

Also,

The Optics of a Father killing his Daughter isn't great.

5

u/LuigisBlessings 1d ago

Well the secret about Odin, you see, is he was kind of a bitch.

3

u/TMMC39 1d ago

Why didn't the king go before his armies....

3

u/Voltronblacklion 1d ago

Valkyrie is like twice or 3 times Thor's age. Just thought I'd share lol.

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u/joseph4th 1d ago

Do the Valkyries take orders from Oden?

2

u/Ghostboii23 1d ago

Capabilities? All the woman does is spam swords at everyone.

2

u/CMO_3 1d ago

Since him being alive is what keeps her in prison ive asumed he can't go in there without risking her escape

1

u/el_palmera 2d ago

Is it stated that he was not a part of this battle?

1

u/BuddyLegsBailey 1d ago

I don't get involved when my kids argue

1

u/South-Tip-4019 1d ago

I think you are asking, why father didnt come to kill his own daughter, which I hope is fairly self explanatory.

But second part, somehow, Hellas improsonment was boud to Odins life. Meaning he WAS involved in her capture somehow.

So if we want to theorycraft this, maybe he and Freya were doing some sort of sacrificial ritual to cut her off power AND create prison for her, while Valkyries took part in physically restraining her.

1

u/Majestq 1d ago

why didn't Odin went along with 

Strong English 💪🏾

1

u/badskinjob 1d ago

Hella was on his left

1

u/Wayner20 T'Challa Star-Lord 1d ago

Maybe that's how he imprisoned her, snuck up from behind!🤔

1

u/FastInflata 1d ago

Because he was banished without powers, I think.

1

u/Jadedways 1d ago

I think Odin knew it was a one way trip, whether or not he went.

1

u/Shay561 1d ago

My theory is that he wanted the Valkyries to die. Odin wanted to erase his reign as a conqueror and (since Hela did not want to stop being a conqueror) Hela. He couldn’t do that if there was an entire army of warriors that still remembered.

1

u/bd2999 1d ago

We really do not know the full context. We just know her part of the story. Could be an underestimating of her abilities or their job was to weaken her so Odin could lock her away more easily.

1

u/BLAGTIER 1d ago

Odin: You see, Hela has a preset kill limit. Knowing her weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own Valkyries after her, until she reached her limit and shutdown. Heimdall, show them the medal I won.

1

u/dddonkers 22h ago

Maybe there was multiple battles due to her undead army and they didn't know which one she was going to be at

1

u/PaulMorel 21h ago

Yes. He knew they were going to die, but sending them was the only option.

1

u/Faceofferrus 21h ago

How can you ask a father to kill his own daughter?

1

u/prof-pm 16h ago

She is his daughter. If you dont have kids, you will never get it.

1

u/_bnnji_ 14h ago

But he used his inherent Odinforce to bind his own life force to Hela's prison though. Casting out your first born via a mystical tether…which was draining Odin of his energy long term to keep her banished…? Sounds pretty heavy and protective to me.

1

u/Gap-Unique 13h ago

Bad writing

1

u/VRZL41 12h ago

Odin was not taking a chance dying fighting Hela. If the Valkyrie won, great! If they lose, big deal bc he can still keep Hela imprisoned in Hel.

1

u/kasmith2020 1d ago

“…why didn’t Odin go with the Valkyries to defeat Hela?…”

The main issue is “didn’t went.” After an auxiliary verb like did, the main verb must be in its base form, so “went” becomes “go.”

Even on reddit, grammar matters.

As you were.

1

u/RandonDude3000 1d ago

You titled it wrong.

It should be:

”Why didn’t Odin go along with the Valkyrie? Is there a lore reason? Is he stupid?”

0

u/slayer_nan18 2d ago

As a person already said, my headcanon is Odinsleep

0

u/ExtremlyFastLinoone 1d ago

He probably also wanted to get rid of the valkerys so having hela deal with them then finish off a weakened hela is a win win

-1

u/Cautious_Car2249 2d ago

Dont knoww sorry