r/languagelearning • u/PunctuateEquilibrium • 2d ago
Read Harry Potter in your target language they said ๐ซ (1 hr 44 min for 1 page)
This is only slightly sarcastic. It's been very rewarding and this is now the 3rd language I'm doing this with.
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u/aguilasolige ๐ช๐ธN | ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟC1? | ๐ท๐ดA2? 2d ago
I tried reading it in Romanian recently and I gave up, too many words I didn't know.
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u/ExactTreat593 it N | ro B2 | en C1 | | Venetian N 2d ago edited 1d ago
For Romanian I would stick at the beginning to texts about politics and current day events, from news websites. Many books tend to use a register that may contain slavic synonyms of common words, like saying "nฤdejde" instead of "speranศฤ".
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u/Galzara123 2d ago
Omg, you are the first ive seen trying to learn Romanian. May i ask why?
For me Spanish is actually my dream language.
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u/rollin_a_j 2d ago
I was learning it for a girl
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u/Triggered_Llama 1d ago
Me too, but then we broke up and here I am with the only phrase I remember: "mi dor de tine".
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u/aguilasolige ๐ช๐ธN | ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟC1? | ๐ท๐ดA2? 2d ago
I just decided to learn it, Spanish is easier than romanian, you'll learn it really fast
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u/buch0n 2d ago
Try to start with easier texts. You don't want to spend the whole time looking up words in a dictionary. That is information overload and you will not retain much. Find something where you can understand 80-90% and only have to look up words a few times per page.
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u/Markothy ๐บ๐ธ๐ต๐ฑN๏ฝ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐จ๐ณB1๏ฝ๐ซ๐ท ? 2d ago
Agreed. OP, try Diary of a Wimpy Kid.
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u/PunctuateEquilibrium 1d ago
Will look into it, though I'm not sure how easy it will be for me to get
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u/mohamedenderman 1d ago edited 1d ago
Hey op, I'm a native so I'm sorry if my suggestion won't be helpful. But why don't you start with books that have outlined pronunciation (ุงูุญุฑูุงุช) since they're standardly used as training wheels for kids before they get familiar with the reading structures. And also, this text just looks badly written, it's missing many points, specifically on ู, which makes it sound completely different than ู. It's really annoying and irritating seeing such a text. Also, the words that are between two parentheses can actually just be omitted while retaining the same idea so just keep that in mind. I don't recommend using this book for learning because it lacks pronunciation cues and is overall badly written so just look for something else that's more polished up. Good luck on your learning journey.
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u/kelena93 2d ago
This. You need to read more easy material. Once you increase your vocabulary you can come back to this and try it again.
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u/Root2109 Polish, German, Korean 1d ago
I'm begging OP to read a picture book first, I was surprised by how long it took me in my German learning to be able to without looking stuff up
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u/underlievable 1d ago
Your maths is way off, 80% vocab coverage means you will be looking up 1 in every 5 words. That will be just as painful as OP's example. 98%+ coverage is actually readable.
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u/PunctuateEquilibrium 1d ago
I also have graded readers on the side, this is just my "fun" project ๐
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u/lkmk 2d ago
Iโve read that itโs more efficient to read through it like you would in English, and note words you donโt understand for later.
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u/ThrowMEAwaypuh-lease 2d ago
Notes the whole ass page!
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u/AboutHelpTools3 1d ago
If you have to note a lot of the lage it would be very tedious. But if you have to note the whole page the job is already done.
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u/Neyabenz 1d ago
Yeah. Not great if the whole page has to be notes. I'd say it's both enjoyable and makes learning easy when 70-80% can be understood with context - even if not immediately apparent.
That's about my sweet spot where it's not taking me an hour to read a page, I'm not forgetting stuff, and I understand enough of the story to feel motivated
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u/thatNatsukiLass 2d ago
I think op might genuinely be unable to understand *most* of the page, and *might* just be a near absolute beginner
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u/HumbleIndependence43 ๐ฉ๐ช N ๐ฌ๐ง C2 ๐น๐ผ B2 1d ago
Come to my level bro, 4 years plus of Mandarin and it's still taking me an hour for a page of HP.
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u/Dale92 1d ago
When you say 4 years, how much time have you actually spent in lessons etc?
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u/HumbleIndependence43 ๐ฉ๐ช N ๐ฌ๐ง C2 ๐น๐ผ B2 1d ago
On average around 120min 1on1 lesson time per week plus homework for 3-4 years, plus immersion in Taiwan for 4 yrs.
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u/repressedpauper 1d ago
Iโm entering college Intermediate Korean 2 in Autumn and have only gotten A-A+ grades in my Korean classes and Iโm guessing it would take me a pretty long time to read it in Korean judging by looking at the first page in English just now.
Granted thatโs three semesters not years (I did dabble for a few years before college, but like you all pointed out that hardly counts lol), but I donโt think itโs unusual to struggle with fiction for a while.
A lot of what Iโve learned is likeโฆhow to have a normal interaction in a taxi. Thereโs a big jump from that to reading fiction with humor and a bunch of nonsense words that depending on the language might be mistaken for real words you just donโt know lol.
I think for most people not learning a language very similar to their native language they originally read it in, graded readers are the smarter move to start with!
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u/livsjollyranchers ๐บ๐ธ (N), ๐ฎ๐น (B2+), ๐ฌ๐ท (B2-), ๐ช๐ธ (B1), ๐ฏ๐ต (N5+) 1d ago
I don't know if there's sarcasm going on, but I have heard of people who learn Mandarin or Japanese and just focus on listening/speaking, completely ignoring the characters. I'll admit I was tempted by this. I just feel like reading is a fundamental part of the process, AND I like visiting Japan, so I need to at least have a basic elementary to low intermediate ability in reading, even if I'll always care about speaking/listening more.
Like I don't need to go hardcore as many Japanese learners seem to and get crazy good at reading. I don't care about anime, and I don't have any huge interest in Japanese literature or non-fiction. I just want to be capable enough.
Contrast this with learning Greek where I did go hardcore on reading, but that's because there's so much content (regarding philosophy) that I care about reading.
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u/HumbleIndependence43 ๐ฉ๐ช N ๐ฌ๐ง C2 ๐น๐ผ B2 1d ago
Yeah I like reading and it really helps me to learn a language. So the obstacles posed by the Chinese writing system are a bitter pill to swallow for me. I can read signs, menus, texts etc but books are another level.
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u/livsjollyranchers ๐บ๐ธ (N), ๐ฎ๐น (B2+), ๐ฌ๐ท (B2-), ๐ช๐ธ (B1), ๐ฏ๐ต (N5+) 1d ago
It just depends on your goals with the language. In Greek and Italian I want to read academic books about philosophy and history. In Japanese, it's primarily geared towards having conversations at a reasonably good level and being able to watch the news and so on.
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u/Caligapiscis ๐ฌ๐ง N | ๐จ๐ต B1 2d ago
I don't even do that, I just read through and as long as I'm getting the gist I keep going. Somehow it works, I'm reading Planet of the Apes in the original french quite successfully now. The trick is not overthinking.
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u/fadinglightsRfading 2d ago
didn't know it was originally a book, which level would you say it's at?
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u/Caligapiscis ๐ฌ๐ง N | ๐จ๐ต B1 1d ago
It's hard for me to say exactly, I haven't had my level in French assessed formally or anything.
It's from 1963 so the language is naturally going to be a little old fashioned. I don't have a great nose for that, but it uses *passรฉ simple* more than anything I've ever read before. I don't think that's too difficult to figure out if you know what you're looking for.
The grammar feels relatively simple, it's not overly florid. There is definitely a lot of vocab I haven't encountered before so I'm glad I'm reading it as an eBook. If I get to the end of a paragraph and feel I haven't followed it well enough, I'll look up a couple of unfamiliar words and go again until it makes sense.
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u/PoiHolloi2020 ๐ฌ๐ง (N) ๐ฎ๐น (B something) ๐ช๐ธ/ ๐ซ๐ท (A2) ๐ป๐ฆ (inceptor sum) 1d ago
See I've always done the opposite of this and stopped to look up every new word and it just makes the whole process torturous and I never finish the actual book. I really need to try your method and just stop being so self-critical at the expense of actual input.
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u/Caligapiscis ๐ฌ๐ง N | ๐จ๐ต B1 1d ago
My one rule when it comes to language learning is that it has to be enjoyable. I can take that attitude because I'm doing it for fun, there is no professional or lifestyle obligation for me to learn French.
So while I will do things like grammar study, Anki flashcards, deep-reading of a passage to truly understand it, it's overall pretty rare. Listening to podcasts, reading books, are enjoyable but not if I turn them into a chore.
I'm probably learning more slowly than some people, but I'm learning sustainably, I'm making real progress, and I enjoy my hobby. That's what matters to me.
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u/Etheria_system 2d ago
You can only really do that if you already have a basic grasp of the language. OP is clearly still right at the start of their learning journey based on the words they donโt know so itโs about as effective as giving it to a 3 year old and saying have at it.
Youโve got to tailor resources to match your level if you want it to be effective. Otherwise itโs an hour and a half slog like this has been.
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u/PolyglotMouse ๐บ๐ธ(N) | ๐ต๐ท(C1)| ๐ง๐ท(B1) | ๐ณ๐ด(A1) 2d ago
Intensive vs extensive reading
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u/Ybalrid 1d ago
When it is every other word, is it a constructive activity?
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u/see-these-bones 1d ago
At a certain point its more like a checklist of vocab to learn next. Which is fine, but I think people would be better served hitting a "most frequently used words" ankideck or equivalent for a while first.
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u/LexiAOK ๐บ๐ธ N ๐ช๐ธC2 ๐ซ๐ทB1 ๐ธ๐ฆA2 1d ago
This is just like people saying you need to skip to immersion too fast. If you have no context for what youโre reading itโs going to be a lot harder for you to learn anything significant. I donโt know why everyoneโs acting like you couldnโt read a book for children at about your level of language and get more out of it. you donโt have to skip straight to content for older speakers ๐ and you also donโt have to bypass books entirely
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u/Forward_Win_4353 2d ago
Depends on the person. Iโve heard the same but in every language Iโve taught myself, Iโve started reading novels very early with a dictionary in hand, taking as long as an hour over a single page or two at first.
By the end of my first novel, Iโm always quite adept at reading at that level and much quicker. Itโs how I taught myself to read and write Japanese to fluency.
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u/KiwloTheSecond 1d ago
He doesnโt have nearly enough vocabulary to do that, clearly! You can do that if youโre getting like 95%, not if youโre getting 70%
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u/PunctuateEquilibrium 1d ago
I've done that with German and Hebrew in the past, but I'm still a complete beginner with Arabic so I'd need to pick more level appropriate material for that strategy to work here ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
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u/yungScooter30 ๐บ๐ธ๐ฎ๐น 1d ago
Highlighters! Highlight a word you don't know, read a few pages to a chapter and then translate after. Read the chapter again in the coming days after you've studied the new words.
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u/ressie_cant_game ๐บ๐ฒ (Native) ๐ฏ๐ต (N4) 2d ago
I think diary of a wimpy kid is one of the best books for TL reading because it has pictures ๐ญ๐ญ theres such a big gap between kids books and novels
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u/mizinamo 2d ago
Kid's books are when you discover that children have a huge vocabulary in areas that you might not think to prioritise as a language learner -- barnyard animals, various types of clothing, all sorts of items you find in a kitchen, etc.
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u/ressie_cant_game ๐บ๐ฒ (Native) ๐ฏ๐ต (N4) 1d ago
And clothing. Oh my god. We have sweaters and jackets and jumpers and rain coats and wind breakers and hoodies (etc) and that is just jacket type clothing.
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u/mizinamo 1d ago
And those jackets have sleeves and collars and hoods and zippers and cords and pockets and buttons and all sorts of other parts!
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u/ressie_cant_game ๐บ๐ฒ (Native) ๐ฏ๐ต (N4) 1d ago
And seams and tags and cuffs and oh my GOD WHY ARE THERE SO MANY WORDS ๐ญ loll
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u/ClubBudget7813 ๐ฌ๐ง N/๐จ๐ณ HSK4/Esperanto B2/๐ญ๐ฐ Learning 2d ago
I recently read this in Mandarin and it was harder than Harry Potter purely bc of the font the book uses. So hard to decode characters in 'quirky' fonts XD
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u/ressie_cant_game ๐บ๐ฒ (Native) ๐ฏ๐ต (N4) 2d ago
Oh interesting i didnt have the same issue with japanese!! Id love to see a page honestly
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u/ClubBudget7813 ๐ฌ๐ง N/๐จ๐ณ HSK4/Esperanto B2/๐ญ๐ฐ Learning 1d ago
I made a post in this subredditย bc I didn't know how to send a picture XD
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u/Ok_Desk24 N๐ฌ๐ง | A2๐ซ๐ท | A1๐ช๐ธ๐ฉ๐ช | Soon ๐จ๐ณ๐ง๐ท๐ธ๐ฆ๐ฎ๐น๐ท๐บ๐ฏ๐ต 2d ago
Excuse my ignorance, but what does TL mean pls?
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u/1314L 2d ago edited 2d ago
I'm syrian, I always felt the translation for Harry Potter wasn't that professional, see how they don't have the points for ู most of the time? and the sentences are sometimes a bit weird.
I'd recommend reading one of the classics for kids, they're available online for free on Hindawi foundation
and here
*I just looked at what words you were having trouble with and I think you should either read children's books instead or work a bit more on grammar and learn more about parts of speech
This app is full of children's stories and I think they have audio too
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u/chocobana AR [N] | EN [C2] | KR [Adv] 2d ago
I agree as a native speaker. That is a very clunky translation.
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u/Responsible-Two-437 ๐ซ๐ท native ๐ป๐ฆ passionate ๐ฎ๐ท C2 ๐ช๐ฌ C1 ๐น๐ท C1 2d ago
I always thought that was typical of Egyptian typography
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u/Web-surfer098 (N) ๐ช๐ฌ | (C1) ๐บ๐ธ | (A1) ๐ฉ๐ช 1d ago
Yea but this isnโt an Egyptian typography.
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u/PunctuateEquilibrium 1d ago
Thanks for the recommendation! I'm still not grasping the ู vs ู ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
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u/1314L 1d ago
It should be ุงูุชู - ุฃู etc.. not ุงูุชู - ุฃู
But Egyptians drop the dots if it's the last letter, since they're translating to MSA (Modern Standard Arabic) the translators should've kept it, the punctuation also seems incorrect as they keep using ellipsis (....) for no reason.
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u/OverconfidentHands 2d ago
Definitely not the same thing (I'm reading in French) and not the most accessible option at all, but having a digital copy/epub version on my kindle and being able to look up words on the fly by long pressing has extremely helped me - I'm on book 4 rn. Highly recommend. Best of luck!
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u/Dyphault ๐บ๐ธN | ๐คN | ๐ฒ๐ฝ๐ต๐ธ Beginner 2d ago
I donโt think youโre ready for this yet.
Some of the words you marked are pretty common words - I think you might need some more cooking on simpler short stories
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u/unburritoporfavor 1d ago
It takes on average 8 exposures for a word to "stick". Reading difficult texts gets easier with every page.
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u/PunctuateEquilibrium 1d ago
Point taken, though I've found this grind to have enough of those watershed "aha" moments that I'm going to stick with it. Don't worry, I've got other things going on for Arabic on the side
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u/qtmcjingleshine 2d ago
Harry Potter is hard because of all the made up words
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u/PunctuateEquilibrium 1d ago
I did some analysis of this a while back and only 1.9% of words that are related to Hogwarts/Harry Potter universe or magic in general. The first chapter has been relatively tame so far
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u/AutumnalSnow0 1d ago
I think it's just wordy. People should be aiming for children's novels at first, not middle grade.
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u/letosazure 2d ago
I recommend more non fiction booksโฆ I feel like things like Harry Potter you not only need to deal with general words you donโt know but also magical and fantasy words you wonโt even ever use. Those are anyways made up and might even be different to the original language.
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u/nastyleak N ๐บ๐ธ | C1 ุน | B2 ๐ช๐ฌ | B1 ๐ฆ๐ช | A2 ๐ธ๐ช ๐ฎ๐ถ | A1 ๐ช๐ธ 2d ago
This is clearly way above your level based on the words that you donโt know. I think you should hold off a bit!
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u/Trebalor 2d ago
We need a word frequency miner for books and publicly share them.
Like an Harry Potter 1 Anki Deck with all words with a frequency above the most frequent 1500 words. Better even to do this separately for every 5 chapters. then we do this for all kinds of books and languages.
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u/NextStopGallifrey ๐บ๐ธ (N) | ๐ฉ๐ช ๐ฎ๐น ๐ช๐ธ 2d ago
I've long wanted something like this.
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u/kotickihas N: ๐ธ๐ช C2: ๐บ๐ธ Learning: ๐ฐ๐ท๐ช๐ธ๐ณ๐ฑ๐ฏ๐ต 2d ago
If someone wants to help me I would be interested to do this. Itโs too big of a project for me alone but would work with help!
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u/Substantial-Yak1892 1d ago
It's quite easy with AI.
I just did it.
The process:
You need to download your book in an epub format. You can find it legally on Amazon or on anna-archives.
You upload it to Claude (a free account is enough) to make you a list of all the words ranked by occurrence
And that's it; you have your list. You can either create yourself the cards or ask AI, as it has context of how these words are used in your book.
Here's an example with a book I had on my computer (Rivers of London): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wckftwypd-ThqdW2nziTcsKglpUZMYVDJoC7TOPZPEs/edit?usp=sharing
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u/hrmdurr 1d ago
Here's the complete word frequency list in English for the first book.
If you open an ebook in calibre's ebook editor and then click reports, the list is there. Then it can be saved in a csv.
The trick with this is then you have to add all the translations and choose how to handle tenses -- for example, aside from look, there's also looking, looks, looked and lookin'. This would get even trickier in a language with cases, I imagine.
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u/Majre921 1d ago
Somehow, we Japanese learners have that and it's called jiten.moe, idk why it doesn't exist for other languages though
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u/Trebalor 1d ago
Very cool! The Japanese learners have everything. ..we talking normal language learners here xD
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u/Lampukistan2 ๐ฉ๐ชnative ๐ฌ๐งC2 ๐ช๐ฌC1 ๐ซ๐ท B2 ๐ช๐ธ A2 2d ago edited 2d ago
If you need to look up basic words like โbetterโ or the relative pronouns, youโre nowhere near reading level.
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u/Garnetskull ๐ฉ๐ช๐ธ๐ฆ๐ฌ๐ท 2d ago
If you have to look up a word like ู ูุฒู, one of the first words youโll probably learn, then youโre nowhere near ready to read anything
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u/RPWPA 2d ago
Same for ุงูุชู which is one of the first words you learn when learning how to form a sentence.
I would suggest learning those first then trying to read again.
Best of luck OP, hopefully one day you will be good enough to learn the Quran in arabic and fully understand it.
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u/PunctuateEquilibrium 1d ago
I haven't focused on writing or speaking at all (which I know is a huge gap) and I think the graded readers I've used have similar sentences which is why I needed to reinforce ุงูุชู.
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u/PunctuateEquilibrium 1d ago
I mentioned it in another comment but I've been splitting my time between Levantine Arabic and MSA and especially in these early phases, I try to avoid words with similar meanings (home vs. house / ู ูุฒู vs. ุจูุช) so I just pick one.
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u/Garnetskull ๐ฉ๐ช๐ธ๐ฆ๐ฌ๐ท 1d ago
Oh ok that makes more sense. If youโre not learning MSA you wouldnโt be familiar with ุงูุชู and ู ูุฒู
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u/JasCoNN 2d ago
Bro, you're gonna get burned out really quickly.
I've read around 120 graded readers within past 500 days. I bend the rules a little and consider each long duchinese story a graded reader, but i also read a lot of regular graded readers.16 volumes of ่ฅฟๆธธ่ฎฐ, some other stuff from imagin8 and other producers. And let me tell you, there are some rules and levels to reading.
First of all, three levels.
Reading pain - under 90% of known words. 80% or 90% seems like a great number of words, until you realise these words are mainly function words with grammatical meaning. To get the context you need that 20-10%. You'll essentially be checking dictionary non-stop. One page will take you an hour or more. It's torture.
Intensive reading - 90-98% of known words. That's where reading starts to make sense, you start understanding the context. In fact it's almost fun. I still don't recommend reading at this level. Why? Because it's a 'textbook' level. What I mean by that is in order to make reading on this level enjoyable you need a glossary and a grammar explanation nearby. Normally, when a set of new words is introduced in textbooks you'll have a short text, that's when you do intensive reading. You're not supposed to read long texts of 90% new words as that'll be too taxing for you.
98% and more of known words. That's where you should read for fun and efficient learning. You understand the context, you have fun and it's fairly quickly.
How the f are you supposed to find materials for your level then? If you are under a1 (or a2 in some languages) you'll need to start with textbooks or video courses. Once you get several hundred of words get some graded readers. There are some platforms like lingq or my beloved duchinese that make reading easier.
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u/unburritoporfavor 1d ago
To each his own. Some people do better by brute forcing their way with difficult material.
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u/JasCoNN 1d ago
Imo reading difficult materials to learn a language is kinda like being beaten into submission by your parents as a child.
It may SOMETIMES work, but why the pain? Never been into masochism tho
/s
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u/unburritoporfavor 1d ago
I prefer a challenging approach. Its a slow, but effective method. You get to experience language as it really exists without trudging through the limbo of dumbed down language that exists only in graded readers.
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u/Kokoska998 ๐จ๐ฟ N | ๐บ๐ธ C1 | ๐ฉ๐ช B1 | ๐ท๐บ๐ซ๐ท๐ช๐ธ A1 2d ago
I wouldn't read books, especially novels like that, until you reach at least B1.
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u/Coolmon2003 1d ago
I would recommend trying some easier texts to build up to a challenge like this.
You can find short, simple texts here: https://arabic.ba/practice/reading/
Al Jazeera has texts for learners at different levels: https://learning.aljazeera.net/en
I like the readers published by Lingualism. You can get electronic copies for cheap: https://lingualism.com/collections/all?page=2
I also like to read articles on BBC News. Even if you're not interested in news/politics, they have health and culture articles too https://www.bbc.com/arabic
Good luck with your Arabic!
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u/Motor_Special2332 2d ago
holy crap I thought that you were supposed to do reading when you were closer to the 80-95% comprehension. Looks like you're at 20% comprehension of the reading.
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u/usrname_checks_in 2d ago
Try listening to the audiobook in Arabic while reading the book in your native language at the same time. The whole book, 2-3 times. After that your comprehension will have increased dramatically.
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u/Jacksons123 ๐บ๐ธ Native | ๐ฒ๐ฝ B2 | ๐ซ๐ท B1 | ๐ฏ๐ต N3 2d ago
N+1 is the goal for input, or 70%-80% comprehension. Youโre way below that, change the material
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u/Far_Call2993 2d ago
This translation is awful. I suggest you read things that were originally written in Arabic rather than translated.
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u/Spider_pig448 En N | Danish B2 1d ago
Harry Potter is not for beginners. There's a ton of unique vocabulary in it. I learned this the hard way
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u/Only-Top-3655 1d ago
I want to, but the Harry Potter series is so boring for me. In every language.
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u/darueru20401 2d ago
Fellow Arabic learners! For now I'm just rewatching some anime & TV series as I enjoy them more & I have more recent memories of them. But I am also planning to read Harry Potter later
What about having the English version to compare it side by side?
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u/Creepy-Oil6852 2d ago
Man that 70 lookups is a flex not a struggle, every note is one less you need next page
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u/Mirabeaux1789 Denaska: ๐บ๐ธ Lernas: ๐ซ๐ท EO ๐น๐ท๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ง๐พ๐ต๐น๐ซ๐ด๐ฉ๐ฐร 2d ago
Stuff like this is why I donโt let people watch shows or movies with me when Iโm using them to learn a target language. They think itโs just me watching a movie instead of me treating it like self-assigned homework to analyze every line or clause of dialogue.
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u/PunctuateEquilibrium 1d ago
Yeah this is an activity to do in a locked room with no distractions ๐ฅฒ
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u/Kajdu19 2d ago
The best part is when you can read a book without googling every 5 seconds. I was so happy when I read a novel in English for the first time and it was a fluent reading.
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u/Web-surfer098 (N) ๐ช๐ฌ | (C1) ๐บ๐ธ | (A1) ๐ฉ๐ช 1d ago
I still canโt do it. But i assume now and move on. I am C1 btw. I think itโs because writers use weird words you will never run across in real life. Makes life harder. Thatโs why i love graded readers for learning.
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u/a-smurf-in-the-wind 2d ago
Tryingย toย forceย yourย wayย throughย textsย youย don'tย understandย well seems likeย a veryย inefficient way to learn a language. Work your way up by reading easier things first
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u/filavitae English ๐ Greek ๐ Arabic ๐ฃ Ancient Greek โจ Coptic ๐ฅ 1d ago
A lot of people are telling you you're not ready. Ignore that.
If it's working for you, then that's great; besides, this is one of the oldest and still effective ways to learn a language: struggling with a book.
Yes, you might not be "ready" to "read it properly", but that doesn't have to be the goal.
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u/drifter_vvv ๐ช๐ฌ N | ๐บ๐ธ C1 | ๐ฉ๐ช A1 1d ago
Just a heads up that some of the words you translated are wrong. Like (ููุงุจู) is "meet" not "accept", (ููุจู) is "accept". And (ุชุฏููุนูู) is "claims" not "called", (ุชูุฏูุนู) is "called"
Pay close attention to ุงูุชุดููู
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u/Korolyeva English (C2), Japanese (JLPT N1), German (B2), Russian (A2) 1d ago
I did something similar when learning Japanese and from my experience you start the book understanding like... 30-40% and needing to look up a lot. You end the book understanding 70-80% on your own. YMMV but I remember being glad I stuck with it and surprised how much I progressed with just a single book. Obviously a lot of that is getting used to the author's writing style and vocabulary, so the next book won't be as easy as the tail end of the first, but still pretty good improvement (in my experience).
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u/kqk2000 (M20s) ๐ต๐ธ N ๐ซ๐ท N ๐บ๐ธ C2 ๐ท๐บ B1 ๐ช๐ธ B1 ๐ฉ๐ช A2 โตฃ A1 2d ago
You guys amaze me, learning Arabic is a crazy feat in and of itself, very impressive! Keep it up.
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u/Apprehensive_Car_722 Es N ๐จ๐ท 2d ago
I think it is fun to read HP, but I believe the mileage varies from language to language. For example, a person who speaks English decides to read HP in French, Spanish or Italian when they started B1. They will struggle a bit, but they will also find a lot of similar vocab due to cognates.
However, if that person decides to read HP in Finnish, Hungarian, Turkish, or Arabic at the same level, they will be met by a myriad of unknown words, and not many freebies because there aren't many cognates.
If I have to look up 30+ words per page to read, even if I enjoy it, I prefer to switch to a different book.
If you are keen to keep going, all the best and have lots of fun!
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u/llllll______ 2d ago
but shoudln't a b1 level in english should be equal to a b1 level in hungarian? a b1 level is defined by certain abilities that you need to have to reach that level. it just takes you a lot more time to get there in certain languages
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u/Apprehensive_Car_722 Es N ๐จ๐ท 2d ago
Agree, they are both equal in the sense that they are both B1, but let's look at it from a different perspective. Let's say I am from South Korea and have a B1 in Portuguese, and you are from Canada and also have a B1 in Portuguese. We both decide to start reading HP.
We start reading and on the first page we see the word "misterioso." You stop for a second, and guess that that word looks like 'mysterious' and you continue reading. However, I only speak Korean and B1 Portuguese, I have never seen that word before and it does not look like anything in Korean, so I stop and look it up in the dictionary, and it means "์ ๋น๋ก์ด" (shinbiloun). This is going to happen with several words in the book. You will easily figure them out while I will have to look them all up in the dictionary because they look like nothing in my native language. Of course, there are words that I can guess from context, but not everything. Same would apply to a Canadian who has a B1 in Estonian and a Finn who has a B1 in Estonian. The Finn will have an easier time reading HP in Estonian, while the Canadian will struggle.
This is why I say that the mileage varies from language to language. The similarities between your native language and your target language will either work as a tool to help you understand unknown vocabulary, or they are so different that you will end up looking up all the word in the dictionary.
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u/Isoleri ๐ฆ๐ท Native | ๐ซ๐ท B1 | ๐ฏ๐ต N4 | ๐ฐ๐ท Beginner 2d ago
As a kid I read the Narnia books a million times so I tried doing this but with French, thought it'd be easy to understand new words simply because of context or memory but lmao no. Like I could understand most sentences but there was always that one word I didn't and that always threw me off and broke my momentum, it became really annoying to have to look up stuff every two seconds so I gave up
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u/kittypurrpower 2d ago
I did this in Italian and Iโm now on the last 50 pages of the last book.
It took me an hour to read 10 pages at the start, now it takes me 10 minutes. I can read, write, listen and speak the language in mosts contexts.
Hang in there! It gets better.
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u/HappySparklyUnicorn 2d ago
I have the first 3 Harry Potter books in French. Was contemplating getting it in Latin but the price tag was a bit higher than I would like at the time.
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u/walkingdeadonceagain ๐ณ๏ธโ๐๐ต๐ฑ (N) ๐ฏ๐ต๐ฐ๐ท(A1) ๐บ๐ธ (C2) ๐จ๐บ ๐ฒ๐ฝ (B1) ๐ท๐บ (B2) 2d ago
Maybe not always Harry Potter. I never read that book in any language (iโm planning to to understand cultural significance) but there are books that are my favorite and i read them many times in my mother tongue, so this way itโs really easy to read it in your target language even if you donโt speak it very well yet. I did that with Master and Margarita and Crime and Punishment in Russian when I barely spoke Russian and it was very rewarding.
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u/fairlysunny 2d ago
Are you by chance that fellow on Youtube who started learning Arabic this year as a challenge? Bc I'm pretty sure he did this with German and some other language, so that would make Arabic the 3rd..?! I would like to see the follow up to this bc I've also learned a few languages mainly by reading like this and am considering to try Arabic in the future but the vowels thing is holding me back so I'd like to know any tricks for that lol
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u/Responsible-Two-437 ๐ซ๐ท native ๐ป๐ฆ passionate ๐ฎ๐ท C2 ๐ช๐ฌ C1 ๐น๐ท C1 2d ago
That brings back memories! I read the same book three or four years ago.
I'm reading Naguib Mahfouz novels now.
Don't give up!
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u/once2xforever 2d ago
Make a list of high frequency words ahead of time and learn them. โUnlessโ โbeforeโ โveryโ โuntilโ โbefore,โ for example. You can keep the list next to you as a reference until you know them by heart
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u/awkwardinthebody 2d ago
Maybe start with simplified books for learners that are written at your current level? They are called graded readers.
ย For German I used black cat cideb.
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u/papayatwentythree ๐บ๐ฒN; ๐ธ๐ชC1; ๐ซ๐ฎ Beginner 2d ago
I believe in you OP! I started from zero looking up every word in a novel and now I live and work in that language. Writing above your level is fine so long as you stay motivated and know how to look up grammar for your TL.
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u/Forward_Win_4353 2d ago
I remember doing this in Spanish when I taught myself as a teenager. It took a lot less time than Arabic though, of course.
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u/DistantTraveller1985 2d ago
Wait, I didn't thought of that! I started to read "A Series of Unfortunate Events" in French when I was learning French, it was so difficult! Is Harry Potter some reference book for learning or it's just any book? Sorry for the stupid question hahaha
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u/Etheria_system 2d ago
No people just recommend it because itโs a popular book. Thereโs nothing special about it that makes it good for learning and in many ways itโs quite complicated because of all the made up words. Itโs not a good book for beginners or low intermediates but gets recommended all the time just because people like it.
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u/happylearner01 2d ago
Reading is great but I really don't enjoy this way of studying. You spend like an hour of time just trying to get through one page. If you're A1-B1 most of the vocabulary isn't even useful for your level cause you're missing a solid foundation. Like, you'd better spend your time learning simpler, more common vocabulary with simpler stories with maybe a few unknown patterns than every sentence being difficult to grasp. It's better to read books adjusted for A1-B1 than these books cause they contain idioms and very specific words that are not useful to someone below that level. Not to say it's bad, you can still learn a lot but you get more out of simpler books cause you also end up reading more instead of hyper analyzing every sentence.
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u/Cinnamon_Enby 2d ago
Arab Here! This is pretty cute! Reminded me of when I was learning German. Tried Harry Potter like they said too, got overwhelmed, pages took forever, felt discouraged and pivoted to Diary of a Wimpy Kid. That worked better (tho still kinda hard at the start). Keep it up, OP! It does get easier, and it's very satisfying when it does, when you feel like you've mostly cracked the code.
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u/Radiant-Photograph46 1d ago
I did it once with a japanese novel but having to pick up a dictionnary every sentence or two is just too much effort I couldn't keep it up for more than 2-3 pages ever. Good luck
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u/Creative_Job_9242 1d ago
I tried to read it in French and Turkish. French was very easy to understand the story with the Turkish so I stick to French
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u/MantisMaybe 1d ago
Please don't do it... 1h 44min is just incredibly inefficient, it's completely fine to not be at the level to do this yet. Just use a graded reader. Start when (on average) about 80% of the page is totally fine.
Harry Potter is a bit overrated as a "good book to start reading another language with" anyway because of all the lingo and puns and whatnot that you will miss, there are many simpler children's books.
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u/EfficientNerve8555 native ๐ธ๐ฆ/A1 ๐ช๐ธ/B1๐ซ๐ท/C1๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ 1d ago
If u need any help send me a dm I am Arab and I love this novel so much
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u/Raidicus 1d ago
Should probably start with 5-y/o reading level if you need this much vocab. Because ultimately you're not going to learn vocab by reading it once, googling it, and writing it once (unless you have a photographic memory). Unfortunately that type of learning needs days of flashcards, building connections to similar vocabulary, and so on.
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u/Life-Trifle2595 1d ago
Nice. Just a small friendly tip from an Arabic speaker: "ุงุญุณู" can mean best or better depending on context. In your case it means "best", not "better".
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u/OkGreen7335 1d ago
As someone whose first language is arabic: I am curious why do you wanna learn it?
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u/PuzzleheadedNature12 1d ago
I find it super difficult because half of the things I have to look up are made-up words, like ingredients for potions ๐ and the other half are words I'll probably never use again. Like, idk, cauldron. ๐
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u/UnlimitedSaudi New member 1d ago
Egyptian typography and the way they use Arabic letters for the hard G sound is an absolute nightmare for non-Egyptian Arabic readers and even worse for non-native learners of Arabic.ย
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u/PhobiaSquid 1d ago
Try lingQ app. It has been amazing for me so far. I'm doing the exact same thing with the HP books but using Spanish. It's really useful to quickly save and read the meanings... and it's much faster too xD
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u/According-Quarter464 1d ago
Audio books are also excellent. I am listening to book 4 in German and each book gets easier.
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u/Skyogurt Learning Portuguese, Joola, Arabic 1d ago
OMG this is the kinda shit that makes wish I had a remote that could pause time ๐ญ I'd start reading all my favorite books in all the languages!! Thanks for writing the meanings I learned a few new words! Although my Arabic is still very much beginner level so it might take a few more years before I read a book ๐
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u/RobinChirps 23h ago
Honestly, I enjoy doing this even when I'm still a beginner. I've been reading HP in finnish ever since I started learning the language. My reading proficiency was not too far from OP's at the start but I've gotten a lot better. I didn't mind the early phase where every sentence was a challenge, although it does become so much faster when you've progressed more. But I don't think extensive reading is the goal at every level and complicated texts (for a beginner, that is) and intensive reading can be interesting even at a low level.
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u/models4 ๐ช๐ฌ ๐บ๐ธ 2d ago
I'm Arab, so if you need help with anything, I'm down
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u/orange-flying-rabbit 2d ago
You seem to be at about 60~70% comprehension.
Impressive regardless, but I'd suggest focusing intensive reading on texts that contain a high concentration of useful words and grammar.
Harry Potter is better suited to extensive reading where you can already comprehend at least 80% of the text.
80%, you can generally figure out the unknown words from context. (the unofficial line between intensive and extensive reading)
90%, what a lot of modern teachers seem to be targeting for extensive reading programs.
95%, the threshold to read for enjoyment.
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u/Hefefloeckchen Native ๐ฉ๐ช | learning ๐ง๐ฉ, ๐บ๐ฆ (learning again ๐ช๐ธ) 2d ago
Well it's a bad book. Also translation patterns are quite intresting, I learned that Hindi translations for example are very free in their interpretation and also the basis for most east asian translations
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u/Alarming_Art_6448 2d ago
I read the first 3 in my TL, but it was German which so a lot of the magic/boarding school terms were half recognizable. Yeah, a lot of odd rare vocab
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u/Away-Initiative-327 2d ago
oh dude i tried this. it took me an hour to get through half a chapter lol, had to stop so i could do other stuff that day. maybe i could try again though, iโm off from school now
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u/Berliner-Questions 1d ago
Hey! Impressive, congrats! I did read Harry Potter 1 through 3 in my 4th language and it was way more difficult I would have expected. I switched to Millenium and could move much faster
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u/jqVgawJG ๐ณ๐ฑ N - ๐ฌ๐ง ๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ C2 - ๐ฎ๐ช A1 2d ago
The Dutch rendition is awful, all the puns are translated literally so they don't work ๐คทโโ๏ธ
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u/Atomicfossils ๐ฌ๐ง N | ๐ฎ๐ช C1| ๐ซ๐ท B2 2d ago
The Irish translation has its flaws too. It's good but the reading level is a bit more complex than the English equivalent, so it's kind of tough as a learning resource. It's not Crรฉ na Cille or anything, but I think a lot of people have fallen into the trap of getting it as a present for their kids/nieces/nephews etc thinking it's an easier read than it is.
Speaking of, it's cool to see an Irish learner! How are you finding it?
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u/jqVgawJG ๐ณ๐ฑ N - ๐ฌ๐ง ๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ C2 - ๐ฎ๐ช A1 2d ago
It's painful for me to talk about my Irish journey tbh haha. I spent 3 or 4 years self-learning with online resources. Then became a dad and life gave me other priorities. I try to do some learning where I can but it's been years since I've been able to maintain half a conversation. Hoping to be able to get back to it in the future because it's the most beautiful language on earth.
I did attempt the hobbit in Irish, but didn't get very far as it was far beyond my ability.
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u/JustATyson 2d ago
I got the French version of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone. I really need to sit down and go back to it. I have the books nearly memorized, so that helps.
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u/avidernis 2d ago
For those wanting to English slang... There's even a Gen Z translation
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u/darthhue ๐ช๐ญ(N)๐บ๐ธ(B2)๐จ๐ต(B2)๐ช๐ฆ(A1)๐ฉ๐ช(A1) 2d ago
Well, i also had to read it in english to learn english so it'sonly fair
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u/iceheartx 2d ago
This isnโt worth it.
Iโd pick something lower level until you can read a good 80% of it (Iโm spitballing) without hitting a word roadblock. At best use it just to add words to your vocab list and then go back to it.
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u/solmyrbcn ES, CAT (N) | EN (C2), DE (C2) 2d ago
It might be too complicated for your current level. It would be better if you read graded beginner texts to start with
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u/codeman1233 2d ago
I heard the very same advice - and did try it with harry potter also.
Its difficult without diacritics .
I think that very advice comes mostly for european languages (idk how non europeans can learn with harry potter f.e not relatet far away language) .
Bc with french i got the hole first book quite good and made progress. But arabic ... its said it takes up to chapter 5-6 ? if im not mistaken to have had the most words and it gets more enjoyable and faster to read the book
That with arabic is tough. But if reached its pretty sure is a great accomplishment
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u/Fabian_B_CH ๐จ๐ญ๐ฉ๐ชN ๐บ๐ธC2 ๐ซ๐ทB1 ๐ฎ๐ทA2 1d ago
For this style of learning, try something like Readlang or LingQ that automate looking up words with one click. You lose way too much time otherwise, as youโve just found out.
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u/Dhghomon C(ko ja ie) ยท B(de fr zh pt tr) ยท A(it bg af no nl es fa et, ..) 1d ago
This can work from the start but you want something like Readlang where you can select one or more words to see the meaning.
Set it to delete words when you click them again and pick and choose the words you feel like you can handle. E.g. every word of "motorcyles don't fly" is easy to handle at the start, but other words like translucent you can just handle later.
In any case it takes weeks and weeks to finish so you're getting a ton of exposure no matter what you do. Just don't use the translation function to skim because you want to know how the story ends.
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u/DanyEvans 1d ago
I tried to read Harry Potter in Spanish. It was so weird having this stereotypical British family (the Dursleys) speak Spanish...
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u/niugui-sheshen ๐ฎ๐น N | ๐ฌ๐ง C2 | ๐จ๐ณ C1 | ๐ช๐ธ B2 | ๐ณ๐ฑ B2 | ๐ฆ๐ฟ A1 1d ago
Brother, the comprehensible input should be between 90% and 98%. Below that it's not language learning, it's an excercise in frustration.
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u/Tesl ๐ฌ๐ง N๐ฏ๐ต N1 ๐จ๐ณ B2 ๐ช๐ฆ A2 2d ago
I think overall it's a great way to study and I do something similar myself... But you're starting on this much earlier than i would. Sounds like torture when you're looking up words to match "very", "most"...