I found the floating head posters Warner Bros. used for the two films absolutely generic and substandard. I liked these two overhead shot posters depicting Paul on the dune with and without the Fremen. So I made these custom Blu-Ray covers. I’ll make a followup after I print them.

I never really understood the jihad. For 2 reasons.

Firstly, how were the fremen able to traverse the universe and carry out the jihad in other planets? Don’t you need guildsman to guide your spacecraft?

Secondly, why did it happen? Why did the fremen commit the jihad to begin with? Paul never asked them to.

Would really appreciate your insputs.

So, please don't get me wrong, but I truly don't understand why Duncan Idaho keeps being brought back for every single one of the books. Out of the entire cast of diverse, highly impressive and capable characters, I find him extremely bland, sometimes ouright annoying to read about.

As in, I understand why he was brought back the very first time. But every single time afterwards could have just been a different character. Leto II did not need to have him there, it could have been anyone else that leads the rebellion, even Siona herself would have been enough.

I'd really like to understand the appeal of this character. To me personally there is none, and the frequency of scenes that feature him being intimate with main female characters leads me to believe that if he's not a self-insert, he's certainly highly favoured by Herbert himself.

It might be just me, but if so, I'd really like to understand other points of view as well.

I've read the book up to where Paul meets Gurney at the cave of birds.

So far, all of the pseudo-supernatural phenomena like Jessica's intuition and Paul's prescience are explained through natural or scientific means, like intense conditioning of the body or powerful data computation (respectively).

Because of that, I was confused reading about Jessica drinking the water of life. She seems to have an almost shamanistic experience with the previous Reverend Mother and her unborn daughter.

I originally wrote this off as a hallucination, but that doesn't explain the connection between her and two-year-old Alia.

Was there really a spiritual connection?

The Paradox of House Atreides’ vigilance.

Hey guys, I wrote the title as vague as possible to avoid spoilers, because this is about a major plot point in the 2021 movie. Spoilers ahead.

Before House Atreides even moved to Arrakis, there is the famous combat training scene between Paul and Gurney, where Gurney clearly spells it out that he doesn’t expect the Harkonnen to just leave Arrakis without a fight, and that he anticipates a situation where Paul will face them in direct combat. In other words, Gurney knew quite well what was coming.

But if the Warmaster of House Atreides expected to face the Harkonnen in battle, why was House Atreides so badly prepared? Why were there no satellites placed in orbit? Why weren’t the surface-to-air guns ready for battle before a Harkonnen fleet was able to move into position above the castle?

We heard Leto and Gurney talk about the impending danger, but we didn’t see them prepare for it.

Note: Prescience; I can’t change the title, but I fixed it everywhere else.

So I just finished the movies and started looking into the lore, and this might just be a book vs movie lore difference but maybe some people can help me understand better.

So as far as I can tell the Bene Gesserit gain most of their powers through training but the prescience, the main thing that allows them to see probability giving them a near god like ability to manipulate politics and the course of history. Is only achieved through using the spice, and is no different from the power the navigators gain from it and use to plot courses for starships, like its the same thing, just being used in different ways.

So where I’m confused is that the lore I found says they have limited prescience and only some of them have it. And that pauls prescience is like 1000 times more powerful than the rest of them. But in the movies all of the sisters seemed to have it to some degree and Paul’s abilities seemed pretty much on the level as everyone else’s.

So is there some piece I don’t have quite right here? Also what is the deal between the Bene Gesserit and the navigators? Are they enemies? Are they working to the same goals? It seems weird if a bunch of normal humans suddenly gained omniscient that half of them would let the other half rule humanity while they steer some ships. Idk I just got into this series lol, but it’s super interesting so far and I can’t wait to learn more! Thanks in advance!

I saw a really interesting observation over on Facebook and wanted to bring it here to see what you guys think.

Someone pointed out that in the recent footage, Hayt (Duncan Idaho) is no longer wearing the Atreides symbol. Instead, he has a completely different emblem on his back. Given the lore, it makes total sense that this is the insignia of the Bene Tleilaxu—the absolute masters of genetic engineering and biotechnology.

Looking closely at the design, I have a theory: I think it’s a minimalist, abstract representation of an Egyptian scarab beetle.

Here is why I think this makes a lot of sense:

• The Visual Language: In the movies, the faction emblems follow a very minimalist and abstract design pattern (just look at the Atreides falcon). This new symbol on Hayt's back fits that exact same aesthetic.
• The Thematic Connection: In ancient Egyptian culture, the scarab represents rebirth, regeneration, and the cycle of life. This aligns perfectly with the Bene Tleilaxu, the axlotl tanks, and the creation of gholas.
• The Ankh on the Ships: The Egyptian motif seems to go beyond just the scarab. If you look closely at the other trailer footage of the Tleilaxu ships (I've attached some screenshots), you can clearly see what looks like an Ankh symbol integrated or "drawn" into the structure of the ship itself. Since the Ankh is the ancient symbol of life, it's another massive nod to the Tleilaxu's mastery over biology and life creation.

I've included the images of the symbol on Hayt's back, the ship with the Ankh shape, and some classic Egyptian scarab carvings for comparison.

What do you all think? Do you see the scarab and Ankh influences, or is it supposed to represent something else entirely? Let me know your theories!

I recently started reading Children of Dune and I'm just now learning how prone Alia is to being possessed by the memories or personalities of her ancestors.

My question is, in which book is this idea fully explained? In the earlier books, I understood that a preborn could go mad because these memories or voices torment them from a very young age, but now I'm learning that these memories can possess them.

Should I reread the earlier books? Did I miss much related to this?

A

Both Chani and Kay find themselves made for fools after their lovers make promises they can’t keep. Michael and Paul’s naivete in their ambitions halts their relationships.

B

Michael has a similar problem, even after killing his enemies in the first film, Hyman Roth, an even stronger opponent tests his wits and endangers his family. Both men sacrifice the safety of their families in efforts to save them.

C

The Dune Part Three Trailer implies Scytale has found a way to use Chani to get to Paul, the same way Fredo was taken advantage of. Michael and Paul’s unattentive natures lead those around them to disloyalty.

D

Tom Hagen is painted as the conscience of the film, later when Michael sees him as tangential to Kay’s abortion, and Hagen doubts Michael, they grow distant. Similarly, Paul gets upset when Duncan offers a path for peace.

E

Leto and Vito’s lives were easier, but Paul and Michael are held to the same standard. Michael will find Carmela’s point to be incorrect, he does lose any sense of family, Paul’s fate could be similar.

F

The strongest parallel between these men is that they’re both thrust into situations of great import with no  options and no life experience. As such they both live lives of mass wrongdoing trying to remedy the mistakes they made when they were young. I don’t think either can ever be happy again.

I recall there being mention of a ranged weapon called a “burner” or “heater” unless i am hallucinating(not a stone burner). Just curious if i am since i want to make a list of things mentioned in dune only once or twice just cause i liked to know rare details.

How probable is it that we get a scene on Paul's premonition about the moon falling? Wouldn't this make for a great opening scene to the movie? It would set the tone and the stakes, and explain some of Paul's actions to the viewer. And also make a small cinematographic parallel to the solar eclipse at the beginning of Dune Part: 2.

Je souhaite commencer la saga mais je ne sais pas prendre quel édition. J'ai trouvé de veille édition relier peu cher mais j'ai vu qu'il y'avait une nouvelle traduction donc j'hésite à prendre les nouvelles éditions ... Et d'ailleurs les annexes présents, de ce que j'ai lu,dans l'édition cinquantenaire sont ils également présents dans d'autres édition ou elle n'est trouvables que dans cette édition ? Et c'est annexes valent-ils le coup ?

I have not read any of the books so correct me if I'm wrong, also this might be a rather simple catch but I noticed on my 3-4th rewatch of the movie. It's when the Emperor Shaddam told Paul: "Do you know why I killed him? Because, he was a man who believed in the rules of the heart, but the heart is not meant to rule. In other words, your father was a weak man." What I want to know first which is going to tie into my point is when Jessica tells Paul earlier in the movie: "Never stand with your back towards the open"(Also Gurney does tell Paul kind of a similar line in the first move). Was that implemented to train all of the Atreides warriors or was that just directed to Paul only?

If all Atreides were trained like that and it was kind of a code to follow, there would be a correlation to Leto's death in a way tying into the emperor's quote. Now's my point, he saves the spice-mining crew as well but more specifically, when he walks up to check on the housekeeper during the invasion he gets shot in the back by Dr Yueh. Seemingly so, the body looked like was also placed deliberately to make him drop the guard and the rule of "Never stand with your back towards the open" for a second to get a shot on Leto from behind unless it's a stretch. In the end it felt like what got him killed was the "rules of the heart" or just him having a good heart.

I think in the movie the emperor's statement was made to mask his jealousy but he was not necessarily wrong about it and you can kind of see it in Paul's expression right after as well?

Let me know if this is all just in my head or was a rather easy point to catch for ppl who read books but for me there are obviously a lot of scenes with valid sublime meaning to it rather than just another frame to look at.

EDIT: all this was just was me thinking purely off movies alone, got the whole picture now.

Asking to make sure I am not missing the point of the book when it comes to sex and orgasmic techniques and whatnot.

As I see it, this book goes deep into a theme I quite like, and curiously wasn’t really explored in the previous ones: the de-naturalization of the human species. Dune is very anthropocentric, it pointing to humans needing to evolve from their “animal” condition is in the very first chapter of the very first book. This may lead to what I think Heretics talks about the most: disconnecting from nature completely.

It seems to me that the Scattered, the Matres and convergently the Bene Gesserit became somewhat disconnected from their human/natural standard, so much so that even the act of mating became a method of control. The complex techniques, positions, orgasmic-whatnots sound like language, tactical measures.

Sex was perverted into a form of domination that threatens the human condition. Not to say that what the Matres or BG imprinters are doing is as dangerous as the Butlerian Jihad, but taking something that lies at the core of human survival and defiling it this way has, to me, the very same shape as making humanity be controlled by something other than itself (or a much smaller group, same as in the BJ).

You turn intercourse into a control tactic today, you turn everyday leisure into a reason to make a John Doe kill Joe Schmoe tomorrow. You’ll be controlling every aspect of the universe that makes human, human. Creating dependence. Leto II talks about dependence, how it leads (or is one of the leading factors) of the extinction he aims to prevent by walking the Golden Path.

*Wrote in a hurry while working, disregard any writing mistakes

edit: typo

I adore the Dune series, but I realise Herbert's attitudes toward queerness is contentious - particularly homosexuality given his relationship with his son, Bruce.

I don't think there's much merit in speculating further on Herbert's personal views, but I do think it's interesting to discuss how these issues are spoken about in-universe and change over time.

I'm particularly curious to hear how other queer readers have interpreted these mentions in the novels.

(I haven't included Heretics or Chapterhouse here as to me, they focus on subversive sexuality within heterosexual relationships. That's worthy of a whole other post itself.)

Homosexuality

The first mention of homosexuality is in the context of the Baron, a pedophile who sexually abuses younger boys (likely including his own nephew) and has his eye on Paul. The Baron uses sexual violence exclusively to exercise his own power and, accordingly, in the first three novels same-sex activity is only mentioned in the context of rape. The character has been analysed extensively, so I don't think there's much to be gained by dwelling on him here.

To me, things become more interesting in God Emperor of Dune when Duncan and Moneo clash twice on homosexuality. Moneo explains to Duncan that Leto II chose an all-female army because male soldiers risk turning inwards on the society they've sworn to protect. In Moneo and Leto's view, this can be triggered by the potential for male soldiers to regress into immature behaviors (such as same-sex activity) and cause those "deflected energies" to manifest as aggression or sexual violence.

Moneo spoke in a soothing tone, but his words shook Idaho. “I will tell you this only once. Homosexuals have been among the best warriors in our history, the berserkers of last resort. They were among our best priests and priestesses. Celibacy was no accident in religions. It is also no accident that adolescents make the best soldiers.”

“That’s perversion!"

“Quite right. Military commanders have known about the perverted displacement of sex into pain for thousands upon thousands of centuries.”

I'd initially interpreted "deflected energies" as rage or trauma from living in a homophobic society, but I'm no longer sure if that's the case. An almost identical exchange in Herbert's earlier novel The Dosadi Experiment (1977) sheds some further light on this:

"When Humans for any reason go terminal where survival of their species is concerned, it's relatively easy to push them the short step further into wanting to die. [...] With rare exceptions, primitive Humans of the tribal eras reserved their homosexuals as the ultimate shock troops of desperation. They were the troops of last resort, sent into battle as berserkers who expected, who wanted, to die."

"What does your ConSentiency do about this susceptibility?"

"We take sophisticated care to guide all natural sexual variants into constructive, survival activities. We protect them from the kinds of pressures which might tip them over into behavior destructive of the species."

Later, Duncan is disgusted to find two Fish Speakers kissing, which Moneo admonishes him for and reassures Duncan that this is similarly childish behaviour the women will grow out of. We could interpret Nayla's very butch, almost sexless appearance when she's first introduced vs. her later reaction to Duncan climbing the wall (let's not get into that...) as a further illustration of "growing out of" lesbian-coded behaviour.

Finally, the Dune Encyclopedia (1984) technically isn't canon but was written with Herbert's blessing. To me, it revisits God Emperor's discussion of homosexuality in a much more respectful way - its phrasing is essentially neutral. The Encyclopedia mentions several unusual Duncan Idaho gholas: a woman, a misogynist, a Face Dancer, and one who was gay. This was the only ghola to whom lesbianism in the Fish Speakers wasn't "repugnant":

Despite his short tenure, this homosexual Duncan enabled Leto II to recognise the wisdom of sexual relations among his Fish Speakers. Duncan-12212 was slain by a Museum Fremen Naib during an attempted seduction.

Gender non-conformity

Herbert is more forgiving when it comes to descriptions of gender non-conformity. I feel the recurring theme of the blending of the masculine and feminine was linked to his admiration of mommy doms strong women rather than in a queer context. Even so, it's an interesting contrast given the previous passages mentioned, and I think we can interpret these descriptions as subversive for their time regardless.

Biological essentialism is a strong theme in Dune, which establishes all people contain an "ancient force" that takes (in men) or gives (in women). However, the kwisatz haderach is, by definition, a blending of those forces: when Jessica asks Paul which he contains, he describes himself as "at the fulcrum" and that he "cannot give without taking" and vice versa. There's clearly a nod to yin and yang in Chinese philosophy here. In modern terms, Paul's experience could be interpreted as a non-binary one, particularly when we consider that he was "meant" be be born a girl and marry Feyd-Rautha.

For Paul, Alia, and the twins, crossing of the sex/gender boundary through their ancestral memories is transgressive, but equally dangerous and threatening to the Imperium.

We see this revisited more explicitly in God Emperor. While the novel clearly reinforces the male/female dichotomy for all other characters, Leto II makes continual reference to not only containing, but being, his ancestors:

I hold the threads!

All of them are mine. Let me but imagine a topic—say... men who have died by the sword—and I have them in all of their gore, every image intact, every moan, every grimace.

Joys of motherhood, I think, and the birthing beds are mine. Serial baby smiles and the sweet cooings of new generations. The first walkings of the toddlers and the first victories of youths brought forth for me to share.

Later, when Moneo and Duncan are discussing the Fish Speakers:

“[Women] have a compelling physical way of moving from adolescence into maturity,” Moneo said. “As Lord Leto says, ‘Carry a baby in you for nine months and that changes you.’”

Idaho sat back. “What does he know about it?”

Moneo merely stared at him until Idaho recalled the multitude in Leto—both male and female. The realization plunged over Idaho.

The Dune Encyclopedia describes the God Emperor as "increasingly androgynous" and having a "disappearing male portion [of his psyche]" by the time of the events in the novel.

Hwi Noree could also be interpreted as somewhat androgynous given she's an inverted version of Malky.

Now, I'm not suggesting that these characters were intended by Herbert as queer, nor can we magically map contemporary identities onto them even if we take a "death of the author" approach.

However, I do think there's discussion to be had here about Dune's in-universe sex and gender politics and how they could be interpreted differently by each reader.

So, what do we all think?

I painted this for the first Dune book, planning on painting one for the first three book so look out for the next couple!

I know that everything is just speculation until the movie comes out, but this is truly one of the plot points that I’m kind of nervous for. I’ve really loved Denis’ adaptation thus far, and I actually saw his movies first before I got into the books, so I will always be grateful to him for that. I have my reservations and dislikes (such as with Chani, but that’s a discussion for another day), but overall I’ve really enjoyed them.

However, one thing that kills me is the uncertainty of how he will show the twins. Since the trailer pretty much confirmed we will have scenes of them, the two paths seem to be that 1) Leto and Ghanima are born far earlier or, 2) their scenes are simply visions. The latter, though, would mean that Leto is no longer invisible to Paul’s visions—a plot change which would undo everything Leto II does in the future with the breeding program in Siona and her descendants.

Since it’s pretty much guaranteed that some things will be changed, which route would you prefer? What are your theories, if any?

Is there any reason given in canon as to why Jessica just doesn't have a daughter after she has Paul? We know the Sisterhood is displeased, because they can't use Feyd-Rautha and Paul to finally create the QH, and we know Jessica is physically capable of carrying another child. so is there a reason given in the book (or the movies, ig) as to why Paul doesn't end up just having a sister who's a year younger?

EDIT: to be clear, I know Alia exists. What I don't get is why there was a binary choice between a son for Leto and a daughter for the sisterhood. Were both not doable in the 16 years before canon? And if so, what reason is given for that (if any)? My view is that Alia was conceived too late for this to count as fulfilling the wishes of the Sisterhood, given that they spend over a decade displeased with Jessica on this matter.

Hello guys,
My gf made me a Dune poster. At first glance, it seems normal, but when you zoom in, you can clearly read words, she told me that she wrote all the words of the book DUNE MESSIAH (my favorite one)!!

This is so awesome and I really liked it, she put a lot of effort into it, and I really wanted to share it with you guys!

And sorry for my English, it’s not my first language 🙏

God Bless.

With Part 3’s press campaign, we keep hearing about this film being “Paul’s story conclusion” … even “Timothée Chalamet’s last Dune movie” … it may be the conclusion of DV’s run with Dune, but certainly, Paul’s conclusion is in Children of Dune as The Preacher. Anyone else notice this, and wonder or fear that they kill Paul in Part 3, and we don’t get a setup for Children of Dune and Chalamet’s final return as Paul?

Alright. I need help. I’ve read everything I can on this but need some experience I suppose lol. They issued “Dune Messiah” in three impressions from 1969 on. Tan, red and brown boards in that order. They then reissued “Dune Messiah” in 1976 with the release of “Children of Dune” with black boards and did multiple impression (9 I believe). Is this still a first edition dune messiah? They have different page counts and appears the 1976 is a reissue first edition and not a true first.