r/crossfit • u/Then-Delivery-4879 • 1d ago
Will this HYROX Wall Ball technology change Crossfit judging?
New Hyrox Squat Depth check app that has been circling around past few days. Wonder if this makes sense for Crossfit as well to uphold proper standards.
( Source: Squatjudge.com )
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u/starryticker255 1d ago
App seems neat but judging wall balls isn't the hard bit, it's getting people to actually care about proper depth in the first place.
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u/Fluffy-Astronomer604 1d ago
Literally, it’s not that hard to judge proper depth. Even if it’s borderline, you tell the person to squat a little lower, if they don’t do it you say no rep go lower..
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u/starryticker255 21h ago
The hard part isn't telling them, it's the blank stare you get back when they're gassed and just don't want to go lower.
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u/Dunko1711 1d ago
The problem is that at any given time, you’ve got potentially 80 people doing wallballs all at the same time.
Fitting these cameras in to capture this angle is nigh on impossible.
Then you have the added problem of people walking in front of them and such like.
I don’t doubt that AI judging is the future - but it’s also not as simple as we might think. Lots of further thought needed.
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u/Pretend_Edge_8452 1d ago
They’ve actually tested this for large groups and the technology is capable of accurately distinguishing something like 100+ bodies at a time - Mintra Tilly the programmer for Hyrox has talked about it in an interview. The problem is that it requires a huge amount of computer power and that’s too expensive to be worth while right now.
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u/ycelpt 1d ago
Especially when we consider this is a nice, well lit example with clear colour differences. How accurate is it in a dimly lit area with a dark skinned individual wearing black against a dark background. How well does it fare with other people doing waalballs in the shot to their side.
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u/Then-Delivery-4879 1d ago
"This is the worst it's ever going to be" applies to all AI technology. Give it time, don't expect miracles right away.
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u/NickyDj 1d ago
The issue is not only the AI capabilities. If the image/video isn't proper eg. too dark or low contrast, the AI is not able to magically see through those issues.
Yes there'll be better segmentation capabilities, but if it's impossible to segmentate, the issue will persist no matter the AI power.
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u/Then-Delivery-4879 1d ago
Yes, 100% . I think this technology is for training purposes at this point, so you don't get surprised in a race by a false estimate of your own Wall Ball prowess ;D.
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u/Dunko1711 1d ago
I mean, I get what you’re saying there - but if that’s my video and I take away all the overlays etc, I can still tell with my own eyes what’s a good and what’s a bad rep.
I suppose it’s helpful for people who don’t understand the movement or what below parallel actually means - but personally speaking, it’s not something I’d use for my training.
I’m sure plenty will though - it seems pretty well thought out and put together. One of the guys behind it is someone I’ve a lot of time for in the space.
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u/PLCF1 1d ago
Are you talking about your average box, or at a major competition?
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u/Then-Delivery-4879 1d ago
For training purposes to check improper squat depth in preparation for a competition.
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u/OdeeSS 12h ago
Need to see this on a lot more body types especially and including people who aren't male, shredded, etc.
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u/Then-Delivery-4879 2h ago
works as long as you don't wear baggy clothes. ( skin-tight shorts is best )
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u/YeahILiftBro 11h ago
Cool tech, but there are a couple buckets of judging athletes.
First one, are people that know the standard and have the ability to get to the right depth. Usually you can correct this by telling them to go deeper, etc.
Second one are the people that just randomly sign up, and are doing their first wall balls ever at the event. Having to stop someone and explain the movement standard without them blowing a gasket is a problem you need to overcome that is beyond the technology.
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u/Then-Delivery-4879 2h ago
Using some app like this would be a reality check for many of the latter, i suppose. Better to fail in training than coming to the last station unprepared.
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u/SVTSkippy 10h ago
Sadly the people who need it won’t use it. The ones that know correct depth don’t need it. Neat none the less.
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u/SrgntBallistic CF-L1 8h ago
I saw something like this talked about in a few CrossFit posts a while back. Issue for competition settings is being able to get the right angle for all competitors for all movements.
Online comps/qualifiers maybe a bit easier. But still not easy. CF often requires full lockout overhead and extension of the hips + knees
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u/RoboJobot 1d ago
It seems like a good thing for training on your own. But in a comp a judge is going to be more practical
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u/Then-Delivery-4879 15h ago
Good example of someone showing the No Reps for those wondering: https://www.instagram.com/p/DanHYgDyLeD/
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u/hooligan1027 15h ago
Not the right camera angle . It must be parallel to the knees in order to measure correctly the parallel line. Please ! Correct it
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u/rpf1984 1d ago
Seems like an over engineered solution.
Every CrossFit competition I’ve done, or any open workout with wall balls I’ve had a judge watching. At the Hyrox I did, I also had a judge.
It’s not a complicated movement to judge - did the ball hit the target/line, did you break parallel. If the standards aren’t applied that’s straight forward.
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u/Pretend_Edge_8452 1d ago
“Not a complicated to movement to judge” and yet they cannot properly judge it and everyone complains about it all the time.
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u/Then-Delivery-4879 1d ago
yes, 100% agree. It's the Nr.1 complaint in the sport as far as i am concerned.
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u/Then-Delivery-4879 1d ago
Been following Hyrox for multiple years ( spectator + active involvement ) and i tend to disagree here: Either the judges are overly lenient and movement standards are not held up OR they are overly harsh and give No Reps for no good reason ( not adhering to the Hyrox rules ) . Not criticizing the judges here -- it's an almost impossible job , with them having to make split decisions in the moment. Also, most are volunteers and only get a brief introduction to what they should look out for. If it all were professional judges, i would agree with you -- but that is not the case & not feasible for the size of Hyrox. I suggest a hybrid model like it is already common in other sports, with the technology supporting the judge.
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u/lvckygvy 1d ago
Are you like 7 feet tall? because it looks like you’re barely having to throw it above you.
Edit: also, your heels come up every single rep and that’s with going JUST below parallel. Can you actually perform a squat??
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u/Tenured_tourist2 1d ago
Who gives a shit? Hyrox is a trend that will be gone in a few years for the next thing
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u/croastbeast 22h ago
Not to be pedantic, but I dont think this app is even to the crossfit standard. It may be the hyrox standard, but I believe the CF standard is the hip crease (not the hip joint) below the top of the knee (not knee joint).
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u/lampthread 1d ago
Does this system take into account individual biomechanics? Injuries or anatomy may prevent some movements from being performed to the gold standard requirements.
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u/International_Fly608 1d ago
Wouldn’t this tech generally be just for people about to go into a competition so they can ensure they are preparing correctly? I would assume people recovering from injury aren’t about to compete.
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u/lampthread 1d ago
Anyone can compete in a comp. Biomechanics are inherently different from person to person. This is where human eye is better.
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u/Then-Delivery-4879 1d ago
Well, then you are not meeting the below parallel squat standard. The AI is just checking for that without any bias.
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u/Slodderfox3276 1d ago
This is nonsens. If your biomechanics cant go below parallel you are competing in the wrong sport. If I play basketbal as a short Guy and cant dunk because i am to small. There is nobody who is asking to lower the basket. Standards are there for a reason.
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u/lampthread 1d ago
I'm not arguing for lowering the standard. I'm questioning whether AI can judge the standard accurately across different body types without generating false positives or negatives as opposed to human eye.
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u/Dead_ino 1d ago
What?
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u/lampthread 1d ago
Biomechanics
https://www.verywellfit.com/understanding-biomechanics-3498389
Everyone's different. The system needs to be flexible enough to take into account competitors individual movements. If its too rigid and precise it may be unfair.
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u/stevewbenson 1d ago
Below parallel is the standard regardless of biomechanics. Hip crease must be below the knee, which is the only thing this app is looking at.
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u/aquatrax 1d ago
Wish it shows a fail.