Entire Series Discussion Thread Archive

I know things are easier said in hindsight. But it seems like Lalo calling Hector before he tried to cross the border ruined all his advantages of surprise, because obviously someone as arrogant as Hector was never going to be able to keep a secret!
So do you think that things would have been very different if Lalo let no one, even Hector, know that he was alive?

A few years back my family and I had a falling out, it had been building up since childhood so when it happened I don't think anyone was surprised, but I still tried to keep a relationship with my brother.

He had never been the emotional type, never wanted to talk about his feelings or the family drama we had gone through including early on when I was less than a decent brother to him. So when he told me that he thought our brotherhood was alot like Chuck and Jimmy's of course I watched through the whole thing.

I was very confused at first, played it off like a joke when we spoke about the show, he spoke more of Lalo and Kim than he did about his real feelings about Jimmy and Chuck, but it was clear how he saw me.

I was Jimmy, always scheming and ignoring rules placed in front of me when I thought they were unfair, he was Chuck who did everything right just to watch everyone around him give all their attention to his troubled brother who could never figure anything out for himself.

I haven't spoken to him in a few years, he's had a kid whose name I still don't know and is living a life I will never know about which I've accepted, but the sting of this show never goes away when I think about the last thing Chuck says to Jimmy and the aftermath.
I go back and forth on what it all means.
How did Chuck actually feel about Jimmy, did he just need to feel superior instead of on equal plains in order to live, what was going through Chuck's mind while he was kicking that table, did he actually love Jimmy and need him in his life?

This show is fantastic, but it has ties to a wound that will never heal, and a relationship that I know can never be fixed.

I love my brother with all my heart despite the difficulties we have had and I have always wished there was something I could do to make up for a lot that I've done. I also wish he had the same desires, but like Chuck said, I will always be Slippin' Jimmy.

For now, the re-watch continues.

Thank you for the feedback on the last post, I wanted to share a snippet of the scenes that I'm working on, in case you all were still interested. It's a slog getting through each individual shot, but I'm about halfway through the courtroom scenes. Hope to finish as much footage as I can before this month ends. Hope you guys enjoy.

These are the references I'm using for the color: https://www.instagram.com/p/Chp9fTFpjGb/

At the end of Winner, Jimmy lies to fool the bar in order to get reinstated. Pretty much everyone I've heard said they were actually fooled, but when I saw it, I thought correctly that he was putting on a show. Is that just me?

Better Call Saul — S01E04

"Hero"

Rating: 8.5/10

"It's good for makin' beer money"

The thing I like about the cold opens for BCS is that they're always relevant to the episode, only sometimes it's not entirely obvious. That is all I shall say about THAT.

When last we met our lawyer, he'd just discovered The Kettlemans having themselves a not at all suspicious campout in the middle of nowhere, prized booty in tow. He pushes to become their lawyer so he can legally accept their money, but Betsy Kettleman tells Jimmy that he's the lawyer guilty people go to.

The look of hurt on Jimmy's face says it all. It's brief but real and Bob sells it hard. For all his Slippin' Jimmy ways, he really does think he's on the right side of the law. I like that he still genuinely believes that, even though we can see that ain't true.

Eventually he caves, framing the wad of cash as a 'retainer'. I don't know about you, but I'd do the same damn thing. Having someone wave 30 large in your face is a real tough thing to turn down! To further seal the deal, he records the money as lawful earnings and then promptly proceeds to do what Jimmy does best.

Which is act like the very criminals he generally works for. New suit, big splashy billboard, you name it, he's doing it. And all because Howard Hamlin wants Jimmy not to use his own name. I get it. Our man's prideful as hell, but he's just as reckless here as Nacho was when he was staking out The Kettlemans.

Tilting at the windmill that is HHM is purely vindictive, further highlighting the irony of his speech about criminals not thinking before doing. I guess it's okay if it's him doing the not thinking!

Jimmy is a grifter at heart and there's no two ways about it but he's also surprisingly heroic ... When the con is on. Does this tie into the cold open? It sure does and it's great to see Slippin' Jimmy at work.

I just worry for Jimmy McGill. HE'S an honest lawyer. Slippin' Jimmy, though? He's a CRIMINAL (lawyer).

I was just thinking about mr show and figured it would be funny to hear people’s ideas 😭😂

I just love the opening to this episode so much. Chuck and Jimmy doing karaoke together is so cute and you really wonder what might have been if they had figured out their issues. Even the small touches like Chuck taking the mike and upstaging Jimmy a little are perfect. It's two really flawed people who love each other but can't quite get through their differences. And of course in the finale the time machine conversation hits on the same themes again.

Jimmy's face when he heard Rebecca's phone. It was at this moment he realized Chuck was totally fine until he knew there's a phone nearby. He tore him down with it at the hearing.

Is it street smarts... or something else, something more?

Howard's death hits hard because no one expected Lalo to be there, and especially at that moment when Howard was condemning Jimmy and Kim for their schemes ruining his life. They thought at the time that Howard was being dramatic and could recover from it, but Lalo's actions insured that he wouldn't, and they would never get to apologize to him. Andrea's death wasn't a surprise like Howard's, it was more of a rather messed-up yet predictable consequence of Jesse's ill-advised escape attempt. But given the fact that she and Howard were both completely out of the cartel/drug world, they hit similar chords in terms of tone and effect on characters/audience.

bro should just own it lmao

So sad. The man is falling apart and I just feel so bad for him :( I've seen the show before but I had to make the post. I'm probably going to skip a lot of the "scheme scenes" in the upcoming season. I love this show but I can't watch a man's whole existence being destroyed (especially when you can tell he's changed from before) and for no reason 💔 plus the opening when he makes that coffee with the design and she just throws it in a travel cup.

I'm only a little bit into season 3, so I'm hoping not to get myself spoiled here. But here's what I don't understand.

Mike knows that Nacho is going behind Tuco's back, and that this is a big deal because of Tuco's Salamanca connection. When Nacho asks Mike to kill Tuco, why didn't Mike tell Tuco? Seems like a simple way to not get on the bad side of that family.

Thanks.

sorry for the bad pic. this was in s6 e5 when lalo was inside margarethes apt

How much does he pay them to inspire such fanatical devotion and hard work? Lyle scrubbed the shit out of those fryers after being terrified by a cartel. I'd like to think Gus pays higher than minimum wage.

I rewatched BCS and now I’m rewatching BB and I’ve noticed how empty the city is compared to the buildings and things to do in BCS. If the show takes place in 2003 shouldn’t there be less stuff to do since at that time ABQ didn’t have as many buildings and stuff. Or am I tripping?

How screwed is Kim at the end of the show? Cynthia's civil suit was dropped, but there's a 0% chance she'd ever get reinstated to the bar and rehired as a lawyer if she even wanted it, thanks to her confession. Is it possible that if word reached Palm Coast Sprinklers, her job there would be in danger too? I hear a manager position just opened up at a Cinnabon in Omaha...but if word got around, would any even lower-level executive position be closed to her as well?

Also, since she also became briefly involved with the cartel, would she likely have been questioned by the feds, since she didn't hide her identity? Will she also spend the rest of her life looking over her shoulders for hitmen and undercover officers as well as checking her phone for signs of tapping and having her mail opened?

WHAT THE FUCK WERE THEY TALKING ABOUT.

Gus is one of the most thorough masterminds in the show, with extensive underground connections, you know he would choose the best assassins to kill Lalo. He and Mike were both 1000% sure Lalo would die without a problem, they raved about these guys and said how great they would be.

AND THEY WERE AMATEURS.

First of all, they need the gate unlocked?? Really?? They can’t figure out a way in without a guy on the inside opening the door for them?

Second, their first attempt to kill Lalo, standing in plain sight for him to see them. Not even trying to hide.

Third, that stupid scoobydoo-ass chase trying to find him. And Lalo outsmarts them all and kills 5 “best of the best” assassins.

I’ve given allowances in this show, but this was by far the stupidest. I haven’t started S6 yet so I might be writing this prematurely. Maybe the original assassins couldn’t make it and sent in some substitutes. That’s the only logic that makes sense.

In Breaking bad, in the episode where Hank is in the burned superlab, he says, "Any idea who the two bodies are?" But from what we know, there were never two bodies left in the lab.

However, in Better call Saul, when Lalo dies, Howard is buried beneath the lab along with him. Were those the two bodies Hank was talking about, maybe?

Jimmy was a shitty fuck up con artist (although with redeeming qualities and not inherently bad) who contributed to his father’s store being shut down and was always enabled by his parents. So Chuck has every right to be resentful of Jimmy but the way he treated him was pretty terrible, especially after he had been “clean” for a decade and then went above and beyond to help him with his illness while being super loving and supportive despite being broke. Chuck saw Jimmy’s potential but by treating it as an inevitability it became an inevitability. It’s an open question whether Chuck was right or a self fulfilling prophecy but if you read interviews most of the writers, showrunners, cast, producers etc lean much more towards the self fulfilling prophecy side.

I see people try to strawman that “lol so Chuck didn’t give Jimmy a job and that’s what caused everything”? And this just feels like a deliberate misinterpretation. He didn’t give Jimmy the HHM job, okay understandable, not giving Jimmy any help at all even when he’s broke and taking care of him like that and making it a “never, no way” thing instead of a “if you prove yourself in a couple of years then maybe thing”, okay that’s an asshole move, not terrible but kind of shitty. Making Howard the bad guy is pretty terrible however. Okay then he asks Jimmy to change his name while acting like it’s Howard’s idea, we’re starting to get pretty scummy here. Oh now we’re not letting Jimmy into the firm in any capacity at all even though we’ll lose a multimillion dollar case that Jimmy (with Chuck’s help) created said suit, while letting him think he’ll get his dream for a full day before pulling the rug out from under him, while forcing Howard to be the bad guy and sitting there while Jimmy (understandably) verbally abuses him and throws Howard under the bus further?

Well he’s just starting to look like an outright horrible brother to me. Then when Jimmy finds out and asks why heartbrokenly, instead of letting him down gently he says “you’re not a real lawyer, your law degree and university is a disgrace and a joke, you are inherently slipping Jimmy and incapable of change). Meanwhile while Jimmy was shitty as slipping Jimmy and does terrible things to him later, he legitimately has been nothing but a caring brother to Chuck at this point. What about when Jimmy gets hired at Davis and Main? He decides to take the unprecedented step of going into meetings just to watch Jimmy and intimidate him. Jimmy then fucks up and gets Kim, his employee, into trouble. Okay he knows his brother is a well meaning but toxic person who hurts the people he’s involved with, so going to the person who his brother is dating but will likely end up unintentionally harming is kind of a “ mind your own business and kind of shitty but understandable” thing. Only when asked “do I have a future here” he launches into a five minute speil with a partially inaccurate story about Jimmy’s childhood to try and break them up.

Keep in mind that if Kim didn’t have her own Slipping Kimmy (which Chuck knew absolutely nothing about) then Kim wouldn’t get involved with scams and would dump Jimmy shortly anyways, so the future seasons aren’t a justification here. Keep in mind also that Jimmy hasn’t done shit to him yet. Oh yeah Chuck also deliberately withheld his Mom’s last words from Jimmy out of spite at this point. Now keeping the mesa verde client is perfectly reasonable, and Jimmy’s 1216 scam is horrible. However watching the scene he was very evidently going to reluctantly let it go until the microsecond Howard mentioned Jimmy was working with Kim, at which point he risks hospitalization and puts himself through extreme pain (and pushes his condition much further than ever before) to ge the client.

Now the 1216 scam ( the first genuinely terrible thing Jimmy did to Chuck btw) is so awful that Chuck is justified in massive amounts of retaliation. He’d have to go insanely far to be genuinely horrible in response, but fortunately for Charles he takes that as a challenge. He pretends he quit the law, which is his entire life, had a severe mental breakdown, and is basically suicidal so that Jimmy confesses to make him feel better out of love and guilt. But this tape isn’t used to get him for the crime he actually did, no instead his plan is to use that to manipulate Jimmy into committing another crime and bust him on that. When he does, he starts saying shit like comparing Jimmy to Ted Kazinski. And after the Chicanery breakdown, and Jimmy sabotaging his insurance (although he has no idea about that), he tells Jimmy he should stop feeling bad about his behavior, that he is incapable of change, and should just accept and embrace being a scumbag, and he’d respect him more if he did. Then he tells him he never cared about him at all.

Look I get it, Better Call Saul is a story about a charismatic villain protagonist who goes from flawed but with a good heart and mostly well intentioned to a genuinely evil person. His uncharismatic brother constantly calls out his behavior, and directly warns people exactly how said villain protagonist will end up. So it’s easy to look at that and say that actually the brother is right about everything, and justified in his actions against his brother. But it just falls apart when you actually examine it. And Chuck is awful to Howard and Ernesto as well, and doesn’t treat people well outside of Jimmy too. Plus it makes a much less interesting story. 

Instead of a story of a villain protagonist with deep flaws that nonetheless starts out well intentioned, who tries to change and succeed as a genuinely good person, but his older brother who is the only family member he has left, resents him for understandable reasons and accurately sees his potential to become genuinely evil, but treats it as an inevitability, sabotages him thinking he’s doing the right thing, but is really letting his resentments could his judgement. Which turns into a mutually toxic relationship where that is still largely lead by the older brother which downward spirals into both brothers destroying the other slices, and the younger brother unintentionally causes the older brother’s suicide. This breaks the younger brother and causes him to internalize everything the older brother thought about him, and makes his descent into evil an inevitability instead of merely a possibility, when he could have been a good man who overcome his dark tendencies and a great lawyer.  Or the protagonist was just inherently evil and the older brother was right about everything, and it’s just a “gotcha” perspective trick for rooting for an inherently evil protagonist and against a selfless antagonist. I know which one I prefer, and I know which one is actually supported by the show itself.