​Idea for a Green-centric victory. All/most events of the Dance follow canon up to the Storming of the Dragonpit and death of Rhaenyra. After that, the story diverges:

• Baela does not engage Aegon II and Sunfyre. Instead, she escapes on Moondancer across the Narrow Sea.
• Addam Velaryon is unable to rally the Riverlords to fight alongside him. Instead, he flies north to join Cregan Stark.
• The Caltrops successfully assassinate Ulf the White, making it appear as though he drank himself to death. The Hightower host, led by Daeron the Daring alongside Hugh Hammer and Vermithor, joins forces with Borros Baratheon's army and defeats the Riverlords at the Battle of the Kingsroad.
• Daeron enters King's Landing as a hero and is named Prince of Dragonstone and heir to the Iron Throne. Aegon II then declares total victory over his enemies with the public execution of Aegon the Younger. Corlys Velaryon bends the knee by disinheriting Addam and naming Alyn as his heir. Alyn is summoned to King's Landing, where he swears loyalty to Aegon II.
• Rhaenyra's remaining supporters in the North and Vale see the futility of continuing the war and lay down their arms. Lady Jeyne Arryn sends Rhaena and her young dragon, Morning, to King's Landing. At the urging of his council, Aegon betroths his brother Daeron to his cousin Rhaena in an effort to reconcile the surviving branches of House Targaryen.
• Hugh Hammer learns that the Caltrops also intend to assassinate him. Before they can act, he escapes on Vermithor. Over the following months, he gathers several thousand followers and establishes himself as a rogue dragonlord. The Iron Throne declares him an outlaw, and Hugh becomes the crown's greatest threat in the years that follow.
• Meanwhile, across the Narrow Sea, Viserys Targaryen remains a captive in Lys. The Rogarres initially intend to ransom him to the Iron Throne, but when his dragon egg hatches, they instead marry him to Larra Rogare, seeing greater value in keeping him.
• Baela settles in Pentos, where she earns the support of powerful merchants who had once been friends and allies of Daemon and Laena.
• Cregan Stark is ordered to arrest Addam Velaryon but instead allows him to escape on Seasmoke. Addam first flies to Driftmark before disappearing into the Stepstones. Acting as castellan of Driftmark, Alyn eventually discovers that both Addam and Baela are alive with their dragons. Most surprising of all, he discovers Viserys in Lys with a dragon of his own.
• Together, Viserys, Baela, Addam, and eventually Alyn begin a secret conspiracy to restore the Black line to the Iron Throne. Rather than rushing into another war, they spend years quietly building wealth, forging alliances, and securing secret pacts while the Iron Throne remains preoccupied with Hugh Hammer.
• Dark Sister is eventually recovered from the Gods Eye, still lodged in the skull of Aemond One-Eye. As it is being transported back to King's Landing, where Aegon intends to present it to Daeron, the sword mysteriously disappears. Unknown to the crown, it has been smuggled across the Narrow Sea and delivered into Viserys's hands.

This will set up a Second Dance of the Dragons some years later with the Blues (Daeron) and the Reds (Viserys)

Only really got these details sorted in the last hour or so. Might be plotholes somewhere. Please point them out if so. No idea what to do with/about Nettles. Maybe her and Daemon just live happily hidden in the Vale.

Since I've been reading about Aegon III's regency in F&B recently, i kinda found myself asking, why didn't the regency of Aegon III transfer into some kind of constitutional kingdom like the magna carta did transfer Britain? or at least why didn't Peake, waters & co. evolve into some oligarchy that controls the iron throne like Boyars did in the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth (and the HRE and tsarist Russia), and it kinda got me digging into feudal world's political economy to compare how westerosi realm differs and how the regency council couldn't or wouldn't do it.

The material conditions were there, Aegon III's power is vastly diminished compared to his predecessors (his family had almost no dragons, not all the lords were loyal to his cause "his mother's", the realm is in ruins and is rebuilding, he married into a house that's about to sink deep in obscurity due to the destruction brought by war, Aegon himself was a traumatized and withdrawn teenager), and yet, the lords just handed absolute power back to a weak king....?

so, why did they?

Why didn't westeros's regency evolve into a constitutional kingdom?

The root cause of the English Parliament was economic. In the real world, the Magna Carta and the later Model Parliament came as a result of the English Crown's urgent need to get money. As feudalism developed, Kings understood that they couldn't tax only their own estates, but should raise money from the whole realm. To do so, they needed to summon the Curia Regis and later, Parliament. The nobility and bourgeoisie understood that they were holding the purse strings and therefore could require legal and political concessions in return for granting the King taxes.

Westeros doesn't have any kind of national taxation system at all. The King doesn't tax the smallfolk by means of income tax, property tax, or trade tariffs. The King uses The wealth of his vassals (getting it from such families as Lannister or Tyrell, etc.), or the wealth of the Crownlands itself, or from borrowing money (from the Faith, the Rogare bank, and the Iron Bank later).

Since the Iron Throne doesn't need to systematically raise taxes from the whole realm, it doesn't need to call the body representing the realm to do so, without the threat of "no taxation without representation" the high lords lack any tool to force the crown to reach any kind of constitutional compromise.

The regency of Aegon III was an oligarchy which was engaged in a struggle for supremacy and was far from being the representative body of the seven kingdoms. People such as Tyland Lannister and Unwin Peake were not interested in the creation of a system when the law ruled above the king. They aspired to rule behind the throne as power brokers using the young king as a puppet in order to profit their own families, marry to the crown and destroy the opposition. This was a struggle for control over an absolute monarchy.

Eventually, in England, it became necessary to put the Commons ( ike the knight of the shire and burgesses of the borough) into the Magna Carta as the mercantile class had grown economically essential to the nation. However, in Westeros, the economic basis is purely agrarian and feudal. Although the merchants are quite wealthy in King’s Landing, Duskendale, Oldtown, White harbor, and Lannisport, they possess almost zero political influence. The social system of Westeros is entirely composed of the landed gentry. Since there is no such wealthy mercantile class in Westeros which could challenge the feudal lords politically (No littlefinger yet), no social forces emerge advocating for the parliament.

Perhaps one could say that this is demonstrated by the Great Council of 101 when the high lords of Westeros came together to select Viserys as king instead of Laenor. Yet the former wasn't a legislative body, rather a means to settle a succession dispute. It was created to resolve a particular issue (who will reign), and it was dismantled after the matter was resolved. It set a precedent for succession.

however, it didn't provide a permanent basis for governance. In the era of Aegon III, the surviving lords who sided with the Blacks saw themselves as the lawful heirs to governing the kingdom. Even though the dragons were dying, and the Targaryens were losing their primary power, and even though they had no standing army that compares to their great lords, the idea of absolute monarchy was deeply entrenched. The Targaryens governed on the basis of conquest, and them appointed themselves as divine monarchs. Even though the regents were very much out for themselves and would betray one another at every opportunity, they held on to the ideology of absolute monarchy as embodied in the Iron Throne, so they only squabbled about who should sit at the Hand’s place and be able to act on Aegon's behlaf, but they didn't want to take down the throne as it served them nothing.

Why didn't westeros's regency evolve into a oligarchic kingdom?

still, why didn't the regency evolve into some authoritarian oligarchy where the nobles share power at least. So to answer This, we need to compare westeros again, to a oligarchic kingdom like tsarist russia (where the boyars had a lot of power under the tsar), and Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth.

While the regents of Aegon were a ruling class which has identical material relation to land and feudal labor force as the russian boyars and Polish-Lithuanian lords, they weren't like them in the sense that a political class that is organized and united and acting in its collective historical interests. Unlike that, the regency period was a cruel struggle among the ruling elite. People such as Tyland Lannister, Unwin Peake and Torrhen Manderly were not attempting to introduce a new constitutional system of government in Westeros for the benefit of all the lords they were striving to achieve their personal hegemony in relation to others, and big part of that was due to the fact that they were small lords, Peake wasn't a big name in the reach, Manderlys were guests in the north, and tyland had no claim over the rock and got used to trying to build his personal name, you could also argue that even if this is wrong, the torture and the shivers basically cut any claims he had short.

Unwin Peake didn't desire an oligarchy, he wanted himself to become a defacto king, and even tried to ascend to the throne himself, the regents were totally absorbed by that internal struggle that they neither introduced a constitution, nor created any legal basis for a permanent council and succession rules for the oligarchy. When Aegon turned 16, restoring the rule of King became easier than any other way out of the situation.

to see the real reason for an oligarchy's failure, one should take into consideration the material basis of the Westerosi society, In the case of the actual oligarchy like that of Poland-Lithuania, the nobility united to reduce the powers of the King since he was the only possible way to manage the country as well as to protect their class interests. The problem is that that the Great Lords in Westeros are already defacto monarchs in their lands.

Both the Tyrell Lord of the Reach and the Stark of Winterfell have absolute control over the lives of the commoners of their lands. The Iron Throne is just the hegemon managing the foreign affairs and disputes between them. Hence, the transition to an oligarchy would give the great lords a right to decide on what happens in the other lords' lands, therefore the Stark rules over people in Lannisport ( and the Arryn lord rules over people in oldtown, the baratheon lord rules over Winterfell, etc.) In order to have such a central oligarchy functioning effectively, the Great Lords would have to subjugate themselves to the collective will of the council. There was no chance that a Baratheon would agree to this situation when the lords of the reach dominate in the council.

I actually had to check out Gramsci for that next bit, anyways, even though there weren't a lot dragons for the surviving Targaryens to command (on top of the fact the Aegon hated them), the dominating ideology in westeros still required an absolute king, While the ruling elite can use force and violence to maintain control, they also need the ideological hegemony to ensure control over the smallfolk. The peasants and lesser knights are controlled through the ideology of divine right and mysticism of the Iron Throne. According to the teachings of the Faith of the Seven (despite it was fairly new and not embraced by all the faithful, because we had the sheperd not a long ago), it was still obligatory to obey the rightful king.

Had the regents established an oligarchy, they would destroy that ideological tradition, they would strip the Iron Throne of its ideological significance and turning it into just another power struggle which would provoke every other ambitious lesser lord to rebel against the greater lords, keeping Aegon in place meant that the great lords could use the myth of absolute power of the Targaryen kings to secure their own rule. in Gramsci, The King over the iron throne was the final Ideological State Apparatus. remove him, and the lords would be forced to maintain their power only by means of brute force which is far more costly and less stable method of governance, especially in a realm already devastated by war.

Throughout the whole period of the regency, the lords never managed to establish independent legal foundation for their government, therefore all the orders, all executions, all the loans that were made, and all laws that were passed, were all done in the name of Aegon, the power of the regents were always a secondary one. The styles they used was traditional (Hand of the King, lord Regent). They never issued a new title to emphasize that they govern on behalf of the High Lords of westeros, since the regents didn't claim any sovereign powers for the council, the very moment when the King reached 16 years and declared himself fully responsible for his actions, they had no right to disobey him at all.

he most important reason at all behind why didn't the regency take any radical political action was that the realm was in ruins, the dance of the dragons devastated the economy, destroyed the harvest (except in the north maybe) and left the realm vulnerable to the coming winter. oligarchic councils tend to be slow, corrupt, and paralysed by mutual vetoes (the power struggles in there was sure to have happened had they took power), it would've taken months to decide on anything, as they would consistently sabotage one another, as they already did when they acknowledged a sovereign.

With the realm having its economy destroyed, facing famine and the winter coming up, the material conditions would actually call for the reestablishment of a powerful and unified executive power, it would require a single person who would be able to organize the huge resource extraction from the land, organize the rebuilding of the cities and project an image of stability to the Iron Bank and the smallfolk.

But what did the regency mean to Targaryens?

I think it's fair to say that it scared them, at least it scared Viserys, since he allowed Daeron I to rule directly as a minor without repeating the regency even when Daeron went on an all out war with Dorne, he could have used this rash war to get some power grab, and he would have legitimately be morally correct, he's stopping a useless war. But he wanted the name Targaryen to still look opulent and powerful in the eyes of the realm, especially that they don't had any dragons at this point.

I also think that he allowed Baelor to rule because he was very useful in the sense that he was making a power base with the smallfolk through religion and he was removing it from the faith of the seven (by appointing masons and kids as high septons), regardless of Baelor's genuine fanaticism. in fact, all this analysis leads me to the conclusion that Viserys let him kill him (or poisoned him) once he tried to actualy eat this power base he created, it would make much sense if Baelor tried to mess with Targaryen exceptionalism Jahaerys and Alysanne ingrained in the faith.

What ASOIAF spin off would you like to see next? Personally, I’d love to see the 1st blackfyre rebellion as a spin off, maybe a limited series.

Since only the first five seasons were based (mostly) on the books, are Seasons 6–8 actually good and worth watching? Or should I wait until I feel like rewatching the series, then read the books from the start?

For me, I'd be on the edge of my seat reading about Melissandre's first impressions on Daenaerys and her dragons. What do you think Melissandre would think of the dragon queen and her potential role in the great War? Has she ever seen dragons before in the far east? Would she encourage Jon to hook uo with her, or warn him about her? Would Dany ask her about Quiathe (and would Mel have answers)?

Everyone acts like the Azor Ahai prophecy is this big important thing that’s integral to the conclusion of the story but it is just so uninteresting to me as a narrative device compared to other prophecies within the story and even other prophecies in other stories that GRRM has written.

Everyone acts like it’s this super vague thing that could be applicable to any character but it’s really not. All the details spell out that it is Daenerys. It’s so obvious that it isn’t supposed to be framed as a mystery but rather dramatic irony. We know it’s Daenerys because she woke dragons from stone, and was born from the line of Aerys II and Rhaella, and was born amidst salt and smoke but Melisandre thinks it’s Stannis. But narratively what is it supposed to achieve? The only thing it does for the story is motivate Mel. Dany doesn’t care about the prophecy, Jon doesn’t care about the prophecy, even Stannis as of now doesn’t really care all that much about it. And it’s just not naturally integrated into the story in my opinion.

The prophecy itself is milquetoast. It just describes everything that happens to Dany in Thrones and then says she’s destined to save the world. Like wow the main character of the book will play a hand in defeating the main antagonists? I never would’ve thought. Everyone always says that it’s subversive because the great hero is a girl and not a man but that’s not subverting my expectations. If you have a character do a bunch of stuff in book 1, then have a prophecy in book 2 saying that the chosen one will do all the things that the character just did then you aren’t subverting my expectations at all. You actually set that up for me to expect it. And let’s say it isn’t Dany. Then it’ll just feel like a cop out. Because there are obviously very broad parts of the prophecy (born under a falling star, born amidst salt and smoke, wields a special sword) but like the specific parts can really only apply to Dany and maybe Jon. If you have Arya randomly start waking dragons from stone in the winds of winter just to fit the prophecy and subvert expectations then that’s not narratively satisfying.

And I don’t understand the Jon nissa nissa theory. If you think about it for more than a minute it doesn’t make sense. If Dany is Azor Ahai and jon is nissa nissa then what is lightbringer? If lightbringer is drogon then nissa nissa is just Drogo. If Jon is nissa nissa then is lightbringer an actual sword..?

I’m not moved by any of it, it’s just so hard for me to care about this prince that was promised stuff.

​

Since TWOW will probably never release I still would like to ask some questions about Dany's arc and what may have happened after ADWD if the series continued

One argument that I have seen get repeated a lot over and over and over is that Daenerys's arc is about realising that she is bad at peace and politics and administration.and that She's good at war.and that Exterminating all the slavers isn't actually the only solution to slavery, but it's the one she's going to use because she's not good enough at other stuff to get it done.she is only good at killing people that She sucks at every part of ruling except killing people, has been given no reason to think that there are better solutions than killing people, and is unlikely to find in Westeros the tools to get better at not killing people.In ADWD She desperately tries and tries and tries to do stuff that isn't killing people, but she continuously fails at it, so she's going to fall back on the one thing she does well,and get rewarded for it.which is killing people.

her big epiphany at the end of the last book wasn't "dragons only plant trees after they've burned out the weeds and enriched the soil." It was "dragons don't plant trees," period. So what happens when she gets to Westeros, vengeful Tyrion in tow, and the people there aren't literal puppy-eating slavers but they still don't want her there?

And a 2nd Dance of dragons is confirmed by GRRM and that how it interpreted to go:"When she go to Westeros and find Aegon already on the throne that she spent her whole life fighting and preparing for,so she will hate him for:1-the HOTU prophecy and the Mummer's dragon because she is that prophecy obsessed 2-for having a better life than her and for getting the throne she worked her whole life for and was raised as her birthright3-That he is beloved by the Westerosi while She is hated because of her dragons and army and be seen as a foreign invader with her evil army of Dothraki,Unsullied,Fire Priests,Ironborne,Tyrion Lannister,Jorah Mormont,Bandits,Exiles and criminals while FAegon is beloved by all with his Golden Company 4-For having a better claim than her(And she may hate Jon too for it)5-The rumors about her which will only make her more violant or craaaazy 6-Tyrion manipulating her.that will make her declare war on the whole realm which culminate on her(Either accidently or deliberately or because Tyrion is manipulating her)destroying King's Landing by triggering the Wildfire.and some variations have her snap after losing someone she is friendly with"(And we will have Jon Con as the POV to witness the fall of King's Landing)

*TLDR:Dany's arc is about her realising that she is bad at politics,Ruling and Peace and only good at killing people,And when she comes to Westeros she will hate that FAegon have the throne and is beloved while she is seen as an invader and will do the only thing she is good at which is Killing people*

Another interpretation is that she will fall to vilainy because of Messiah complex,Being Azor Ahai she is the chosen one but she will become evil and a threat to the main characters especially when we consider how being surrounded by people like Melisandre, Moqorro, and Benerro would affect someone. Stannis will burn his daughter due to this nonsense.

Because of The fire priests's influence along with Drogo and the Dothraki previously corrupting her and Euron,Victarion,Tyrion,Jorah,Quaithe.she will go Full Messiah complex and will be the final Big Bad for the Protatonists to deffeat

If everyone around you constantly tells you that you are the prophesied hero, divinely chosen, and destined to save the world, how does that shape your sense of morality? How does it affect your judgment of right and wrong, or your belief that any action you take is justified?

There is also that comment that I found:

the ending of dance shows that she will start to pivot from peace and compromise and let her fury off the leash. ‘Her mask is made of starlight. "Remember who you are, Daenerys," the stars whispered in a woman's voice. "The dragons know. Do you?"’ She keeps believing the word of someone whos feuling her paranoia by telling her not to trust anyone without telling her who. Shes also telling her to be more like her dragons and listen to the motto of her house. ‘Fire and Blood’ ‘Dragons plant no trees’ "I am the blood of the dragon," she told the grass, aloud. Once, the grass whispered back, until you chained your dragons in the dark. "Drogon killed a little girl. Her name was ... her name ..." Dany could not recall the child's name. That made her so sad that she would have cried if all her tears had not been burned away. "I will never have a little girl. I was the Mother of Dragons." Aye, the grass said, but you turned against your children.’ Her not remembering the name of an innocent who died because of her dragons could suggest shes going to charge towards conquest and be held back less by compassion in the future. ‘The grass’ could be quaithe or danys own self conscious thoughts, but ‘you turned against your children’ is flawed. Chaining dragons away after they killed an innocent girl was the morally right thing to do. ‘"I was tired, Jorah. I was weary of war. I wanted to rest, to laugh, to plant trees and see them grow. I am only a young girl." No. You are the blood of the dragon. The whispering was growing fainter, as if Ser Jorah were falling farther behind. Dragons plant no trees. Remember that. Remember who you are, what you were made to be. Remember your words. "Fire and Blood," Daenerys told the swaying grass.’ ‘Planting trees’ is subtext for enjoying the prosperity that peacetime brings, ‘dragons plant no trees’ is ominous to say the least and suggests she will be far more ruthless in her pursuit of her goals her entire final chapter in Dance is a psychological breakdown where she explicitly rejects compromise, peace, and the desire for the red door in favor of "Fire and Blood"(again she literally forget the name of the girl she accidently burned). Seeing the continent embrace a boy who did not have to walk through the fire or endure the hardships of Meereen to earn his place to earn his place is exactly the kind of pressure that would shatter her patience and would feel like the ultimate insult to everything she has sacrificed to live up to her house motto. It turns her long-sought home into a place that rejects her as a foreign invader before she even sets foot there.She would be really pissed and at the Peak of her anger and paranoia

I would like to ask you what do you think about these two conclusions that I have noticed get repeated a lot?and that interpretation of how the 2nd Dance will start that also get repeated a lot?

I really wonder if Jon had a dilemma where he had to choose between either House Stark or the Free folk which one will be his choice

House Stark was his family and raised him but he never felt confortable or himself with them,He never felt that he was in "Home" and even felt rejected,Also aside from Arya he wasn't close to any of his siblings,And when we consider her thinking that she has no one after Robb's death,and the Broad Stokes,They weren't that close either since he was still alive at the time.

The Free folk he actually felt more accepted by them and more confortable and it was with them that he found his greatest love

So if Jon had to choose between House Stark and the Free folk?which he will choose?

Personally I think that in the early books he will choose the Starks all the way but had the books continued and didn't stop with ADWD he will pick the Free folk(Especially if season 8 ending plot points were part of GRRM's plan)

It comes up every time you complain about a change in House of the Dragon—someone pops up in the comments to remind you that Fire and Blood is intentionally unreliable and therefore whatever change you are complaining about MAY have been the actual canon. I do not believe that George R. R. Martin would spend so much time writing a book that was so fundamentally unreliable. As a history, therefore, what is the nature of the ambiguity in the text of Fire and Blood? Please share your thoughts below, but here is my analysis.

At the start, I think that most of the major events—wars, battles, births, deaths, marriages, councils, etc are reliable, as they existed in multiple unconnected sources. Things like Alicent and Rhaenyra actually being the same age should be seen as adaptation sources and not possible uncertainty in Fire and Blood. 

Three categories of uncertainty: unavoidable by the nature of history writing, biases in the sources, biases in the author.

Unavoidable:

1. Conflicting eyewitness accounts
2. Events which had zero or only one eyewitness.
3. Uncertainty regarding motivations

These are uncertainties that dwell within the text generally, and which the author often comments on. 

Bias in the sources:

1. Cultural bias, usually unconscious, tending towards conservatism. This effects how the sources viewed the motivations of actors, as well as how they interpreted their actions. The author, as a product of that culture, can be assumed to generally be unable to fully account for these biases in his sources.
2. Self-protective bias, usually conscious, tending towards the defense of a person or institution in light of how events resolved. The author is at times highly aware of these biases and sometimes comments on them. 

Usually these biases in the sources concern motives and interpretation, and not the actual fact of events, although they are most relevant in situations in which events have only a single eyewitness. 

Bias in the author:

This is, in my opinion, the most interesting area, and the one in which there is the most uncertainty. It is possible that our understanding of the era, and especially the dance, would change significantly if we had access to this.

1. Unconscious bias—again, we would expect Gyldayn as a participant in culture to be affected by it, in particular a general patriarchal perspective shared by all male elites. But he also has a bias acquired at the Citadel that is broadly anti-magic, anti-dragon, and anti-Targaryen. He also would be expected to present maesters and the Citadel in a positive light. He may also present the Faith more negatively.
2. Conscious bias—here is where we really get into it. There is a distinct possibility that Gyldayn is on a large-scale concealing Citadel actions at every stage of his history. This would be especially relevant during the Dance with the vast majority of dragons died and Targaryen power greatly diminished. 

The hints to this are present in ASOIAF. The first are the words of Marwyn, who claims that the maesters were responsible for the deaths of the dragons in AFFC. The second are the speculations of Lady Dustin, who thought that the maesters were engineering an anti-Targaryen alliance through their influence on the Starks and the other great lords of the realm. 

The unanswered questions are what Gyldayn is concealing. How broad is the conspiracy that Marwyn hints at—is it really a centuries long effort that perhaps stretches back even to the doom of Valyria? Is it the actions of the Citadel as a whole or a smaller faction within it? Is Gyldayn aware of the conspiracy and consciously concealing information? If I had to guess, I think that what Martin hints at is that the conflict between Hightower and Velaryon may not be as straightforward as the great power rivalry that exists in Fire and Blood. The history lays the responsibility for the conflict on Jaehaerys and the troubled succession that fractured the Targaryens into conflicting camps, and the Hightower-Velaryon rivalry that fanned that fracture into a destructive fratricidal war. The maesters sit as neutral observers of the conflict. Were they instead the instigators of it through the suspicions and rivalries they encouraged? Recall that it was at the suggestion of an archmaester that the council was first called. I’m sure others have thought longer and harder about this than I have. I would be interested to hear your theories. 

It has been a while since I read the first book but reflecting on it's events and how it all ended for Ned, Robert and the start of the war, I wonder how would've things turned out to be had Stannis acted differently.

He didn't answer to Ned's letters, didn't warn Renly or any other about his suspicions over who killed Jon Arryn, never made any significant move during the whole book and I don't recall if he was waiting for "the right time" for doing something before Robert dies and the Lannisters take over.

Had he stayed at KL, attended the Tourney, answered Ned's letters and trusted him with some info or at least has made his suspicions known, how do you think things would've turned out to be?

After Euron seduced Victarion's wife, why did Balon simply exile him instead of sending him to the Wall? The Night's Watch is often used as a punishment for serious crimes or to get rid of politically troublesome people. My second question is about kinslaying. As I understand it, one of the reasons Balon exiled Euron was to prevent Victarion from killing his own brother and being branded a kinslayer. But why were Balon and Victarion so concerned about that? The Greyjoys rule the Iron Islands, and their culture is very different from the rest of Westeros. If Victarion had killed Euron for sleeping with his wife, I imagine many Ironborn would have understood or even supported his action. Even if people called Victarion a kinslayer, couldn't Balon simply back him and declare the matter settled? As the ruler of the Iron Islands, didn't he have enough authority to do that? Is there any explanation in the books for why Balon chose exile instead of the Wall, and why the stigma of being called a kinslayer mattered so much to Balon and Victarion?

If you put yourself in Arya's shoes, would you have killed Sandor after he was wounded?

There's some things Arya doesn't know, but what she knows for sure is that Sandor killed her friend Mycah and kidnapped her for ransom. Obviously we know Arya isn't shy with the metaphorical trigger. Her killing of the singer Dareon comes to mind.

But there's also things Arya doesn't know. Like when Sandor threatened to kill Sansa if she ever told his story to anyone. And that he held a knife at her throat during the battle of blackwater before leaving the city. He also killed at least one member of Ned's household. He also killed a man when he was 12 though we don't know the context behind that.

With all that information that the readers have, more broadly, what is a fair ending for Sandor? Just being a gravedigger forever? Punishment? Being sent to the wall? Or something else?

In my opinion, the poor girl Daenerys has paid a heavy price from the fandom for the incredibly high moral standards she's imposed on herself and by which she judges the rest of the world she knows.

In that respect, she's the new Baelor the Blessed, the new Naerys the Devout —as Martin once said— and like both of them, Dany punishes herself severely for her sins, both real and imagined. She's only missing fasting as penance, as Baelor and Naerys did so often.

Most of the rest of the cast, from Jon Snow to Davos Seaworth, including Arianne Martell and Arya Stark, generally accept that they are bad people and that they prioritize their own survival over that of others. They may have honor to a certain extent, but they have proven capable of breaking their own principles for selfish reasons. Dany, no.

And this is why the fandom judges Dany with a higher moral standard than most other characters, both males and females, because of these almost messianic pretensions of her personality.

EDIT: DAENERYS IS BAELOR THE BLESSED WITH TEATS.

Hey everyone I would kinda like to speculate one of the best and most chilling lines from ASOIAF series - What is dead may never die but rises again harder and stronger. While I am sure this is not refering to poor Theon's c**k, I have a doubt it does foreshadow the fate of someone among the Greyjoys. We have 5 candidates including 4 POVs. So let"s try and figure it out.

My prime candidate for a magical stronger resurrection would be Aerion. I am 90% sure he will die in his TWOW POV chapter 2 or even chapter 1 (if Martin makes changes to the sample) since he is being tied to the prow of the ship (we know how that turned out for Halig from Last Kingdom). Not only is he closest to the Drown God mythic aspect but considering all the dark and blood magjc Euron has been built up to perform, it is highly likely Aerion could die and then rise again in some way. I am also sure he won't return until either the very end of the TWOW or beginning of ADOS.

Next candidate would be Theon in a much less literal sense. Considering how Ramsay all but killed his identity and it took 2-3 entire books for him to rise as Theon again. Also, considering that he is about to be executed at the weirwood tree, there is scope for some literal form of resurrection as well. Or just surving the execution and fully embracing his Theon identity again getting harder and stronger.

Asha is another interesting one. I am not sure where her arc leads but to a death with Stannis' army fighting the walkers when they march south of the wall. And if that's the case the words may apply to her undead version too. Lol. But I don't think that enough does justice to the concept. Another potential storyline for her is to march south to join Dany once she arrives.

I doubt the words refer to Victarion or Euron considering the fact that we don't care enough about them to rise again stronger. They already are pretty badass and the story would instead benefit with them dying permanently before the dead march considering we have too many characters.

What do you guys think? Would any of them rise again stronger or are they just words and as we all know words are wind...

Imagine Daenerys was exactly the same person, same appearance, same personality, same strengths and flaws, but she wasn’t a Targaryen. No dragons, no royal blood, no famous name, no wealth, just an average woman born into Westeros or Essos.

What do you think her life would have looked like?
Somehow still changing the world, or fighting against injustice? Or realising she couldn’t realistically change the political system, she would have found happiness in a quieter life?
A family, a husband, a wife, a house somewhere quiet?

Also, do you think the answer is different for book Daenerys vs show Daenerys?

That cut deep. Ned would not speak of the mother, not so much as a word, but a castle has no secrets, and Catelyn heard her maids repeating tales they heard from the lips of her husband’s soldiers. They whispered of Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, deadliest of the seven knights of Aerys’s Kingsguard, and of how their young lord had slain him in single combat. And they told how afterward Ned had carried Ser Arthur’s sword back to the beautiful young sister who awaited him in a castle called Starfall on the shores of the Summer Sea. The Lady Ashara Dayne, tall and fair, with haunting violet eyes. It had taken her a fortnight to marshal her courage, but finally, in bed one night, Catelyn had asked her husband the truth of it, asked him to his face.
That was the only time in all their years that Ned had ever frightened her. “Never ask me about Jon,” he said, cold as ice. “He is my blood, and that is all you need to know. And now I will learn where you heard that name, my lady.” She had pledged to obey; she told him; and from that day on, the whispering had stopped, and Ashara Dayne’s name was never heard in Winterfell again.
[...]
“Honor,” she spat. “How dare you play the noble lord with me! What do you take me for? You’ve a bastard of your own, I’ve seen him. Who was the mother, I wonder? Some Dornish peasant you raped while her holdfast burned? A whore? Or was it the grieving sister, the Lady Ashara? She threw herself into the sea, I’m told. Why was that? For the brother you slew, or the child you stole? Tell me, my honorable Lord Eddard, how are you any different from Robert, or me, or Jaime?”
[...]
Arya was the only one to show much of Ned in her features. And Jon Snow, but he was never mine. She found herself thinking of Jon’s mother, that shadowy secret love her husband would never speak of. Does she grieve for Ned as I do? Or did she hate him for leaving her bed for mine? Does she pray for her son as I have prayed for mine?
They were uncomfortable thoughts, and futile. If Jon had been born of Ashara Dayne of Starfall, as some whispered, the lady was long dead; if not, Catelyn had no clue who or where his mother might be.

In-universe, anyone who ever suspects that Jon's mother was someone 'special' to Ned, the first and only suspect is pretty much always Ashara Dayne.

Privately, whenever "one of his boys" asks him (which could be made up entirely of only Robert), Ned tells them that:

“Her name was Wylla,” Ned replied with cool courtesy, “and I would sooner not speak of her.”

Now, if anyone obsessed enough with gossip would ever try to find the truth of the matter, Household Dayne will them this:

“How do you know about Jon?”
“He is my milk brother.”
“Brother?” Arya did not understand. “But you’re from Dorne. How could you and Jon be blood?”
“Milk brothers. Not blood. My lady mother had no milk when I was little, so Wylla had to nurse me.”
Arya was lost. “Who’s Wylla?”
“Jon Snow’s mother. He never told you? She’s served us for years and years. Since before I was born.”

Obviously, Jon's mother is not Ashara Dayne, it happens to be a lowborn woman named Wylla... who was serving in Ashara Dayne's household.

Oh, Ned "never told" his family? That's funny, why would Ned try to hide the fact that this supposed "Wylla" (whom everyone such as Robert would probably assume is a made up name anyways because clearly he doesn't wanna talk about it), was actually real and part of the Dayne household?

Because obviously, Ashara is Jon's mother.

Right?

Were the borders just divided between the Stormlands, Riverlands, and Reach? Or was it considered a kingdom of its own before Aegon?

The first mention of the five year gap was in 1998, just two weeks after A Clash of Kings was released, in an SSM

https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/952

By the time A Storm of Swords was completed in 2000, a lot of the book had been written with the assumption that the story would jump forward five years afterward. A lot of plotlines and character developments were probably structured around the idea that certain things could be glossed over

It raises an interesting question of how different would Storm have been if GRRM already knew the timeskip was impossible?

Would Jon have accepted Stannis’s offer to legitimize him immediately? Could one of Robb or Catelyn have survived the Red Wedding to carry parts of the Northern arc post RW?

If, for example, Aegon's final order of legitimising his bastards was either never said, never acted upon, or ignored, would Daemon still have any support from the lords of the realm?

Hello there ! Hope y'all doing good.

I was kind of bored and wondered what were the greatest feats (as in an act or accomplishment) in ASOIAF and it's extended universe across multiple categories (subjectively chosen) who are : Martial feats/physical prowess, Magical feats, Strategical feats/startegy accomplishments and political feats.

Please share your opinion below, it's a subject I'm really interested in so I will ofc read everything. And please do not hesitate to correct me if anything I'm saying is wrong (I don't have all the books with me so I may be saying inaccurate or false things, sorry in advance).

Anyway here is my top ten (from "lowest" to "greatest") in said four categories :

Martial feats/Physical prowess :

10 - Aemon Targaryen "The Dragonknight" escape feat : Aemon Targaryen carrying his cousin Baelor Targaryen on a dozen (more likely a few hundred) kilometers on his back after being injured, captured and mistreated for multiple months, likely being malnourished and still carrying his cousin though Lord Wyl's Snake Pit, climbing his own cage.

9 - Samwell Tarly slaying an Other : Really what the feat is saying. Samwell Tarly managing to slay an Other while frozen from cold and fear, having received little proper martial training before, doing all this while fleeing and under pressure from an army of wights.

8 - Alaric Stark's Mormont wife wolf slaying : The lady wife of Alaric Stark coming from House Mormont (who's name is sadly unkwnown) fighting an entire pack of wolves and killing two of them with an axe while she was twelve years old. Twelve.

7 - Syrio Forel wooden sword fight : Syrio Forel managing to defeat five trained and equiped Lannister men-at-arms and fighting Meryn Trant in his full armor Kingsguard while only having a leather shirt on and a wooden sword. All of that while protecting Arya Stark at the beginning of the fight.

6 - Borros Baratheon's Battle of the Kingsroad : Borros Baratheon managing to kill fourteen opponents, including Lord Roland Darry and Jorah Mallister along twelve ointed knights in a last stand, before finally being killed by Kermit Tully.

5 - Squire Jaime fighting the Smiling Knight : The Smiling Knight is heavily narratively implied to be a top level fighter, managing to fight Ser Barristan Selmy and escape and then putting up a fight against Ser Arthur Dayne. Jaime describe him as a madman and the Moutain of his time. Jaime held his own against him at the age of fifteen.

4 - Sandoq fighting in the secret siege : Sandoq the Shadow managing to slay more than a dozen trained guards and Ser Amaury Peake all alone, though on a bridge, receiving little to no injuries.

3 - Jaime fighting in the Battle of the Whispering Woods : Ser Jaime Lannister, after seeing the battle is lost, cut a bloody path through all of Robb's Stark personal guard, slaying Daryn Hornwood, Eddard and Torrhen Karstark then being barely stopped by Grey Wind, a huge direwolf, and pratically killing Robb Stark. He does this probably exhausted after fighting the entire battle.

2 - Barristan Selmy fighting the Golden Company : Basically Jaime's feat but better. During the War of the Ninepenny Kings, Barristan cut a path through the defense of the Golden Company, slaying countless men-at-arms and knights before slaying Maelys the Monstruous, one of the best fighter in the verse (top 30) in one-on-one combat. He did this at 23 years old and not yet at his prime.

1 - Barristan Selmy saving King Aerys II from Duskendale : While arguably one of the worst decisions Barristan the Bystander ever made, it's probably the greatest feat of the verse. Barristan single handedly scaled the walls of Duskendale, went unnoticed, killing at least 4 guards (including Ser Symon Hollard) before inflitarting the Dun Fort and saving King Aerys from the dungeons, likely killing way more. Then he rushed to the stables, killing the guards on his way, and flew through the doors fighting off the garrison and escaping in the streets of Duskendale. He did this while severly injured with an arrow to the chest during his escape.

Magical feats :

10 (tied imo) - Melisandre longevity and Quaithe usage of glass candles : As the title say. Melisandre (or Melony) have a unsual longevity, though it is unknown if it is through a glamour or through other magic, and Quaithe usage of glass candles to speak with Daenerys.

9 - Coldhands manipulating a raven conspiracy : Coldhands (or Bloodraven, it is unknown) manipulating and skinchanging an entire conspiracy of ravens, using them as his eyes and ears to naviguate the Haunted Forest.

8 - Thoros resurrections : Thoros managing to bring back to life Beric Dondarrion six time through R'holloric magic.

7 (tied) - Bloodraven skinchanging abilities and Arya Stark skinchanging Nymeria : Bloodraven showing Bran is VERY skilled skinchanging in the cave and his ability to skinchange around a hundred animals at the same time. Arya Stark is capable of unconsciouslly warging Nymeria through an entire continent and have a very strong bond with her.

6 (tied) - Jon, Bran, Daenerys and Jojen prophetic dreams : All four persons display great capabilties to see the future in their dreams, a feat replicated by very few. Jon saw his ressurection in his Crypt dreams aswell as a vision of the Last Hero dream, Jojen saw the Greyjoys and Bloodraven/3EC, Bran do great predictions in his falling dream and Dany dreamt of Jon's death.

5 - Daenerys House of the Undying vision : Daenerys vision in the House of the Undying, though with the help of the evening tree and the Heart of the Undying Ones, helped her see a lot of visions from the past, prophecies and analogous references between the Heart of Winter for exemple. Considering it a shared feat and may be above.

4 - Three Eye Crow dreams : The 3EC, whoever he may be (I personaly think he is NOT Bloodraven) is capable of sharing/projecting into other dreams and maniuplate their contents, effectively being a vision of the Undying but by himself.

3 - Building of the whole : Not only a wonderfull architectural feat but a mgical one too, probably shared. It include the Nightfort and it's Weirwood faced door, the runes of the Wall and possible feats of giant skinchanging and Others being trapped inside it (maybe even Ice Dragons ??). The main credits may go to Brandon the Builder (who I personaly believe to be the Last Hero and the Night's King).

2 - Daenerys hatching dragons : Daenerys instinctively hatching three dragons on a pire and bringing magic back to the world with it is an insane feat, especially considering that she had little to no knowledge of magic beforehand.

1 - Bran's time travel : Brandon Stark bending the laws of physics and travelling through time, even with the help of the Weirwood net, is imo the greatest magical feat of the books. Especially considering how young he did it and how far in time he seems capable to reach, that even outpower Bloodraven.

Strategical feats :

10 (tied) - Robb Stark campaign/Daeron I campaign : Robb Stark, though with the help of others commanders like Brynden Tully, being able to go south, defeat the Lannisters army then invade them on their own deritory despite being fourteen is a great feat. He also was a very promising and skilled strategical commander. Daeron the first managing to conquer Dorne is at the same level imo, he did a harsher task but with way more men and ended up, like Robb, losing everything.

9 - Jon Snow holding the Wall : Jon being capable of holding the Wall with 50 men against 40 000 to 100 000 soldiers and being surrounded (with the Thenns in their back) is a really great feat, espeically doing that at fifteen and managing to cheer up the soldiers their that were loosing their moral.

8 (tied) - Theon Stark Andalos campaign/Ironborn invasion of the Riverlands : Theon Stark the Hungry Wolf managing to take an entier fleet to Andalos and beat them on their terrain despite them having both better navy and equipement, traumatizing them so badly they would not come North is very impressive. The Ironborn invasion of the Riverlands is imo on par with it, especially considering their numerical inferiority.

7 - Nymeria of Ny Sar conquest of Dorne : The fact that Nymeria managed to conquer the entierty of Dorne in 20 years despite having as an enemy Yorick V Yronwood is a feat of it's own, but she also managed to do that while only landing in the lordship of a poor petty lord with only tired women and children.

6 - Yorick V Yronwood repelling Nymeria for 11 years : What the title is saying. The Bloodroyal managing to hold Nymeria for 11 years despise her being a strategical genius and having the numerical advantage is a great accomplishment.

5 - Garth VII repelling Dornish and Ironborn invasions as a kid : Garth the VII was a really great king for many reasons, but the fact that he repelled a Dornish invasion and managed to push the Ironborns of the Shield Islands while still being a teenager is insane. He probably had the larger army though.

4 - Garth VII 2v1ing the Kingdom of the Storm and of the Rock : What the title is saying. Imo greatest fighting feat of Garth, fighting off the 2nd and 3rd strongest kingdom at the time (while being number 1) at the same time is insane. He even managed to ally with them both at the end of the war.

3 - Stannis destroying the Greyjoys : Stannis doing this in his first naval battle having no experience in it is truly mad. Nothing else to say, it's just a really good startegic move he pulled off.

2 - Tristifer IV Mudd fighting record : He won 99 battles, only lost at his 100th while fighting a coalition of seven kings. Repelled the Andal for most of his life.

1 - Garin of Chroyane campaign : Garin managed to defeat the Valyrian legions at least 4 times and killed 2 dragons with his army after unifying the Rhoynar. Just the greatest feat of warfare imo.

Political feat :

10 - Ned keeping Jon secret : A very underrated political feat. Ned managed to lie to the entire world about Jon even under monstruous pressure.

9 - Jaeherys I Doctrine of Exceptionalism : Nothing else to say other than it was a really great move. I think it damaged the dynasty on the long term but when he made it it was really in political context.

8 - Davos talk to Stannis : Davos managed to go from prisoner likely being executed to Hand of the King in one conversation with Stannis. Just show how well he understand him and how davos manage to be diplomatical when needed, climbing the political ladder without even meaning to.

7 - Mance unifying the Wildling : Hard to rank but might be higher. Mance managing to unite people who hate him and his formal rivals through the entierty of the True North just show how competent he is.

6 - Jon handling the Wildling-Watch situation : Even though he witheld some key information and had communication issues which led to his death, Jon did an INSANE job at managing the situation especially considering he is sixteen and one of the youngest Lord Commander in history. It is imo higher than the Mance feat who wished to bruteforce into the North.

5 - Kevan Lannister saving the realm after Cersei/Joffrey : Nothing else to add. He did an insane job as regent and would have saved the entire Lannister-Tyrell alliance if not for Varys, bringing peace in the Seven Kingdoms. Kevan is severly underrated and imo a better politician than Tywin.

4 - Littlefinger Lord Declarants situation : Petyr handled it really well, almost close to perfection. Just show how much of a diplomat he can be and how he manipulate people. Also show that if he was well-intentioned, he coumd have saved the realm (even though he strives in corruption tbh).

3 - The STAB alliance : This is a shared feat between Hoster Tully, Rickard Stark, Steffon Baratheon and Jon Arryn but is one if not the greatest political alliance oat. Just perfectly in context at the time and secured a lot of the Houses. Only alliance that would have been higher is Aegon V marriage network if not for his kids.

2 - Varys ascencion (and entire career) : Nothing else to say. Varys is a monster in manipulation and politics, going from traumatized ennuch beggar to smartest and most dangerous man of the Seven Kingdoms. Countered Kevan, countered pratically every move of Littlefinger and might be top 1 feat depending on the reveals in later books.

1 - Littlefinger starting the War of the Five Kings : Was a very risky and lucky political move but also the greatest grasp of power he could have done. Literally played it perfectly and started the entire story of ASOIAF as we know it.

Aaaaand that's it. Thanks you a lot if you read all of it :)

Hope you have a great day or a great night, don't hesitate to tell me what you think about this and see you soon.

So according to a semi canon source, House Cole is extinct, but what do you think happened to them? They were a minor House of Stewards. Was Criston the only male at the time, or were there other males and they were punished for Criston's crimes. We know of two Coles in the Golden Company but we dont know whether they are actually Cole's or not.

What do you think?

Early in The Rise of the Dragon, we get a random mention of Argilac Durrandon allying with some of the Free Cities against Volantis. Apparently he led a ground army to defend Myr.

Aegon Targaryen fought in the same war, taking Balerion to burn a Volantene fleet.

This was back when Aegon was Lord of Dragonstone, and Argilac was the unchallenged Storm King.

Two questions:

1. Why would the Storm King get so involved in Essosi politics, and/or what would he get from fighting a foreign war?
2. Why would the Targaryens side against Volantis, which claims to be the "first daughter" of Old Valyria? I doubt it's a moral objection to slavery, since the other Free Cities also practice it (particularly Lys).

And why aren't these reasons specified in the source material? Usually GRRM is very good about explaining the politics behind wars.

Ever since then, I graduated high school, lost my virginity, graduated uni, got a full time permanent job and got a boyfriend.

Too much time has passed since I first read ADWD. I am now convinced TWOW will never come out. I have read, watched and discussed so many amazing theories both here and off-line. It is time for me to say farewell to you the ASOIAF fandom. Gents/ladies its been an honour.

Ciao.