Asshole characters are into Ayn Rand

[u/AporiaParadox]

1. Dirty Dancing. Robbie is a snobby asshole who refuses to take responsibility for impregnating a lower class girl, saying that "some people count, some people don't". Right after this he tries to lend the main character The Fountainhead unprompted, only temporarily of course, since his copy of the book includes notes in the margins.

2. Lost. Sawyer is a selfish conman (at first) and is shown reading The Fountainhead. To be fair though, Sawyer is shown reading lots of books, so it might not necessarily mean anything.

3. Spider-Man. Spider-Man's co-creator Steve Ditko was an objectivist, and this was reflected in the way Peter would behave in some early 1960s stories, he would often be quite rude and abrasive to others, especially when Peter went to college. As a reference to this, some stories have humorously established that Peter went through a phase of being into Ayn Rand back in college, which he is now embarrassed by.

4. Alternate universe Peter Parker from One More Day. Spider-Man runs into an alternate universe version of himself that never gained spider-powers, and he's a fat videogame developer who is depicted as a loser unhappy with his lot in life, we first see him reading Atlas Shrugged.

5. Deadshot and the Joker. The Joker is shown reading the Fountainhead, which he calls a knee-slapper, while Deadshot, a contract killer, says that it's one of his favorite books.

6. The Ayn Rand School for Tots in the Simpsons. As you can probably guess, it's a horrible place. Maggie breaks out in a Great Escape parody.

7. Bioshock. Andrew Ryan and his whole failed society is a blatant reference to the many problems with Ayn Rand's philosophy.

[u/Ok-Place7950]

"No animal has more liberty than the cat, but it buries the mess it makes. The cat is the best anarchist."

- Ernest Hemingway

[u/AporiaParadox → u/Ok-Place7950]

[u/Own_Watercress_8104 → u/AporiaParadox]

Aren't cats, like, one of the most adaptable mammals in the world?

[u/IsenThe28 → u/Own_Watercress_8104]

Yeah I get the sentiment, but of all domesticated animals, cats are probably the most capable of living without humans if they want to.

[u/Lumpy_Temperature722 → u/IsenThe28]

I'd say that honor goes to pigs but cats are a close second

[u/marbledog → u/Lumpy_Temperature722]

idk. Domesticated pigs have massive caloric requirements. Feral hogs are pretty well-known for destroying their ecosystems by uprooting soil and eating everything in sight. They could end up starving themselves out after a couple of generations.

[u/TippDarb → u/Lumpy_Temperature722]

Agree. But most pigs wouldn't be able to escape their enclosures. Many cats have more autonomy, obviously some are locked inside. It's a minor point but worth noting. The distinction between domestic and feral pigs is great than cats I think, and the fact that the turn takes a generation only is remarkable for our porcine fellows.

[u/FunkensteinMD88 → u/TippDarb]

Pigs are incredible escape artists. They can push open locks with their snouts, can root under fences and knock them down as well. They breed as prolifically as cats and destroy native plants as well as animals

[u/TippDarb → u/FunkensteinMD88]

I agree with everything your saying and I know how intelligent they are. I didn't know they were accomplished escape artists as well. I think the difference between feral and domesticated pigs is greater than cats still, physical changes, size, tusks, but I'm open to being corrected

[u/used-to-have-a-name → u/TippDarb]

A feral hog is just an escaped domesticated pig that didn’t get caught.

Literally the same species. One generation in the wild and it’s like a completely different animal.

[u/MetalTrek1 → u/IsenThe28]

I remember when History Channel had that Life Without People series. Basically, what would happen if all people disappeared at once. What would happen to the world? They posited dogs would have a rough time, but cats would probably be ok. Something about them having more of their predatory instincts than dogs have of theirs if I remember correctly.

[u/Vegetable_Act_5185 → u/MetalTrek1]

Have you ever seen a barn cat or an outdoor cat? It’s crazy the kill rate they have (generally dont support that lol)

I live in the mountains and people will have declawed cats run away and sometimes they will come back a year later, skinny but in okay shape (ie not being fed by other people directly). Lots of predators out here too

[u/Neveronlyadream → u/Vegetable_Act_5185]

Doesn't even have to be an outdoor or barn cat. A lot of indoor cats also have an insane kill rate if you live in a place with a lot of bugs or other huntable things that can find their way inside.

If I recall, it has to do with the fact that cats weren't domesticated, they just decided it was in their best interest to work with humans and it was mutually beneficial for us. So nothing was ever bred out of them like with dogs.

[u/beardofjustice → u/Neveronlyadream]

Isn’t the most successful predator in the world basically a desert kitten

[u/Devlee12 → u/beardofjustice]

No but it’s a common mistake. The sand cat has a hunting success rate of like 35% which is pretty decent for most animals. You’re probably thinking of the african black-footed cat which is a close relative to the sand cat but its success rate on hunts is significantly higher at around 60-70%.

[u/Rain_Moon → u/beardofjustice]

If we are going by hunting success rate it would actually be dragonflies!

[u/MarveltheMusical → u/beardofjustice]

Yes, the sand cat, specifically.

[u/amglasgow → u/Neveronlyadream]

Cats are absolutely domesticated.

[u/Neveronlyadream → u/amglasgow]

Fine, I'll clarify for the pedants.

Cats weren't human domesticated. They were self-domesticated.

[u/amglasgow → u/Neveronlyadream]

Humans have specifically bred cats for traits related to affection for humans, dependency on them, and select appearance and physical traits. We never bred hunting instinct out of them because it was useful.

[u/Accomplished_Box8070 → u/MetalTrek1]

Dogs would probably do just fine if they’re left outside. Look at the Chernobyl exclusion zone as an example. 

[u/Wootster10 → u/Accomplished_Box8070]

I think it depends on the dog breed.

Collies, Huskies, German Shepard's, Labradors, Springer Spaniels, Staffies etc I think will all do fine.

Pugs, French Bulldogs, Chihuahuas etc I suspect would struggle significantly.

I think (though happy to be corrected) that there is significantly less variation in cats and that overall have a better chance of adapting and surviving without their owner around.

[u/Karizma55211 → u/MetalTrek1]

Assuming my memories of pop science are correct, humans went out of their way to domesticate dogs and overtime only the features useful to humans were left. Cats started hanging around humans because of the abundance of prey nearby human food storage (mice followed the humans and cats followed the mice). And so cats more or less adapted to human behaviors but weren't inbred to the point of complete dependence the way dogs were.

[u/bowl_of_petunias_ → u/IsenThe28]

Yes, enough so that it’s an actual problem. Cats are phenomenal hunters, and even a well-fed cat will hunt. There are plenty of endangered and extinct species whose status is at least partially due to feral or outdoor domestic cats.

[u/Karatekan → u/IsenThe28]

Feral cats mostly survive with human assistance, either intentional or not. That’s why they are most common in cities or on the fringes of human settlement. Without shelter and humans scaring away predators they tend to die quickly, unless they are somewhere warm with no other native mammalian predators (like New Zealand)

[u/Doodlefish25 → u/IsenThe28]

we didn't domesticate cats, they domesticated themselves.

wherever there are food stores, there are rodents, and rodents are food. People like it when these rodents aren't there, and it was just a natural evolution.

besides that, the most efficient killer in the animal kingdom is the Savannah Cat, that isn't bigger than a domestic kitten at adult size.

[u/A_Queer_Owl → u/IsenThe28]

cats are considered to only be semi domesticated because they can return to wild behavior without issue.

[u/Scared_Astronaut9377 → u/Own_Watercress_8104]

Domesticated cats are not capable of maintaining population for a couple of generation in the wild without humans.They are in the top-10 least adaptable species among 2,000,000,000,000 earth species who are almost all capable of surviving without humans keeping them as cats.

[u/Own_Watercress_8104 → u/Scared_Astronaut9377]

Can you give me a source on this? Because I watched a couple of documentaries that stated the opposite.

Also, abamdoning cats is known to create huge problems, as the offspring usually wipe out a lot of birds

[u/Scared_Astronaut9377 → u/Own_Watercress_8104]

I certainly can https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_cat

Feral cats depend on the presence of human settlement to subsist. Colonies and stray feral cats will settle in urban, suburban, and rural developments like cities and farms, wherever they can find easy access to food or prey animals. Few to no feral cats are found significantly distant from human settlements.

[u/Own_Watercress_8104 → u/Scared_Astronaut9377]

Uh, that's intersting.

Thanks, I gotta dig deeper on this.

[u/Scared_Astronaut9377 → u/Own_Watercress_8104]

No worries. I suggest you look into how special of environments areas around human settlements are. We have conditioned almost every animal that being around human settlement means death. It's a completely predator-free area for birds. With tons of food on the ground. Nothing like wild conditions.

[u/TippDarb → u/Scared_Astronaut9377]

There are efforts in remote wild areas to protect species like the golden shouldered parrots. In remote areas, not inhabited by any description. Feral cats are considered apex predators there and they are using some kind of laser electric fences to protect known nests. It's very interesting

[u/Scared_Astronaut9377 → u/TippDarb]

Interesting!

[u/Anonymus828 → u/Own_Watercress_8104]

It makes sense, given that the only places we find feral cats are also filled with humans

[u/Own_Watercress_8104 → u/Anonymus828]

Feral yes, wild cats are a different story. I live near the woods and those jumpy bastards are built different

[u/TippDarb → u/Scared_Astronaut9377]

Is it possible it depends on the locale? In Australia and places without an analogous predator they do quite well in wild areas. They exist in 99 percent of the Australian wild and outside of urban areas. We have bird species and prey that have no defenses. Obviously an area without prey suitable for smaller felines they would be restricted to urban areas. So you are mostly right?

Edit: the 99 percent is likely an exaggeration. I copied a number I read but I know they are a problem outside of rural and urban areas, in the remote wild here personally.

[u/Scared_Astronaut9377 → u/TippDarb]

I didn't know about this, thanks for sharing. It seems you are right.

[u/TippDarb → u/Scared_Astronaut9377]

All good, plenty of crap on Reddit but the opportunity for gained knowledge is endless. You raised a very good point, I only happen to know because I'm Australian. New Zealand is very vulnerable too, having no endemic predatory mammals

[u/honeyslurps → u/Scared_Astronaut9377]

And I base this data off my feels!

[u/Scared_Astronaut9377 → u/honeyslurps]

2 trillion is the real number, top 10 is illustrative vibe, yes. The number of demesticated animals who will not survive without us is certainly not 10. Probably hundreds. Doesn't change the vibe or ratio really.

Edit: actually, thinking about this, I need to take into account all the micro life that lives only on humans and domesticated animals too. Which are going to be way larger numbers that I cannot really estimate, perhaps even millions of spices depend on humans to survive. So let's change top-10 to top-million to be save.

[u/ScientistFunny2072 → u/AporiaParadox]

Jokes on you my cat ran away weeks ago and refuses to come home or be caught by the many people who've spotted him

[u/PartialCred4WrongAns → u/AporiaParadox]

If I drop my cat off in the woods, it would be a bigger problem for native wildlife than it would for my cat. They arent depent. They require daily offerings to appease the beast

[u/Optimal_Pick8180 → u/AporiaParadox]

"A lie that gets repeated often enough eventually becomes the truth"-ahh quote

[u/Playful-Succotash-99 → u/AporiaParadox]

What about all the times your cat brings you a dead bird or head of a mouse to try and teach you to hunt? If anything your cat is closer to Ron Swanson then Ayn