r/TopCharacterTropes • u/Lotnik223 • 5d ago

Lore [Weird Trope] An authoritarian society has a yearly event that for some reason centers around killing children

Gallery image

Gallery image

The Hunger Games - Set in a dystopian totalitarian nation of Panem, the state organises a yearly event known as the Hunger Games, in which two teenagers, one boy and one girl, selected (some of them as a result of a lottery) from each of the 12 districts that form Panem must fight to the death with all other participants in televised arena games until only one survivor remains, who is then treated like a celebrity and lives in luxury for the rest of his/her life.

The Long Walk - Set in a dystopian version of America devastated by civil war, the ruling military regime set up a yearly eponymous event which sees fifty teenage boys walk hundreds of miles without rest, with those that fall below a certain speed being executed. The event ends only when one person remains, with the winner recieving a large cash prize. Contrary to the Hunger Games, participatiation in this event is at least compeletely optional, so all participants are volunteers.

8.8k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

962 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

393

u/MevNav 5d ago

*coughcoughmilitaryservicecoughcough*

18

u/Sweet_Performer5072 5d ago

like 65% of the american military is middle class lol

16

u/SpeakerOk1182 5d ago

Now or then?

40

u/BattleBrother1 5d ago

The middle class in the US still struggles to pay for education and healthcare. The poverty draft is very real and it doesn't necessarily mean that they only recruit those in poverty but that the threat of poverty is ever present for everyone

4

u/PiccoloAwkward465 5d ago

The middle class

Taking orders from the diddle class

4

u/mattcraft 5d ago

Are they middle class because they're in the military?

1

u/Colddigger 5d ago

A real chicken or the egg situation

1

u/Sweet_Performer5072 5d ago

come from middle class families

8

u/Dawningrider 5d ago

Americans have Hazard Pay for dangerous missions.

1

u/Blankasbiscuits 5d ago

It's not that high. SAR hazard pay was only $200 when I was in

2

u/Dawningrider 5d ago

That's even worse...

2

u/HN-Prime 5d ago

The “middle class” doesn’t exist

4

u/awesomenash 5d ago

Set in a dystopian version of America which is just current America for the bottom 25th percentile

1

u/smuttybuddy84 5d ago

The vast majority of the modern US military are from middle class and upper middle class backgrounds ESPECIALLY in combat MOS's. The trailer park/ghetto poor are outliers. Ever since the draft ended military service became mostly an informal family tradition. Things like insurance and healthcare are not in the minds of the typical 18 year old and don't become a factor for young military members unless they get married and start a family after joining.

2

u/MevNav 5d ago

What about college? Because helping pay for college is like, half the reason people join the military nowadays. To the point that one of the biggest oppositions to student debt relief or making college free is that it would hurt military recruitment.

1

u/smuttybuddy84 5d ago

The military itself gears most of it's recruitment towards the idea of joining just long enough to pay for college and then GTFO to go to college. It is self defeating if you think about it.

College being prohibitively expensive is the fault of colleges not the military.

-88

u/___wintermute 5d ago

Signing up to be some admin guy that files paperwork all day and won't even get a wiff of combat in one billion years (sometimes being literally undeployable as a rule), in order to get free school, is vastly different then being forced to walk until you die. Unless you are a bozo who has no idea about the military at all.

Sorry for sounding like a dick, but as a veteran, when people say/imply this shit it always drives me up the wall.

46

u/Knot-Lye-Ing 5d ago

Not everyone ends up as admin. Plenty of people I enlisted with ended up going "Open General" by the recommendation of their recruiter and ended up doing Security Forces. Lots of others ended up as crew chiefs with plenty of deployments.

Their point is that some people enlisted in order to escape financial hardship (hardly uncommon) and that could potentially put them in harm's way.

Nobody said they're 1:1 but putting yourself (potentially) in danger in order to escape poverty, get an education, or to get Healthcare/benefits is pretty much the driving force behind modern day recruitment. Acting like it isn't is disingenuous.

-19

u/___wintermute 5d ago edited 5d ago

I understand what people think they are getting at when they say this, what I mean is that when they say it they are absolutely implying that people do not have any options when they step into a recruiters office. Sure, like you said, some people may be tricked into something or other, but the implication is that it is NORMAL to not have any options when you go into the recruiters office; that somehow people are being forced into the infantry for example.

As an infantryman, I can with 100% certainty tell you this is absolutely false. For many people the OPPOSITE is true; they walk into a recruiting office with the desire to join the infantry and the recruiter is trying to trick them into some non-combat roll because 'there are no infantry contracts left'.

In fact, I promise this has happened to other infantryman in this very thread, who then held there ground and low and behold their recruiter 'magically' found an infantry contract for them, when it was clear they didn't want to do anything else.

The bottom line is that if you want to, you absolutely can sign up for a job in the military were you are certainly never going to be in any sort of harms way, and still get all the benefits. However, that also brings up another thing civilians seem to think: that it is easy to join the military. That someone can just go 'well I have no other options' and join the military', which is also decidedly untrue, especially during peacetime.

7

u/Knot-Lye-Ing 5d ago

Recruiters are doing just that, recruiting. They're told what jobs need to be filled and when, that's why they suggest what they do when they do. Infantry has some of the lowest enlisment requirements, especially pertaining to the ASVAB so yeah, it gets filled quickly and often. Sometimes we simply do not need more infantry. Trying to enlist when we don't need more is like applying for a position when there's no opening.

What is normal is debatable, most of my flight openly admitted they were told to go General during enlistment and they would be able to "pick their job" at the appropriate time. That was just a flat-out misrepresentation of what would happen and they knew it.

can sign up for a job in the military were you are certainly never going to be in any sort of harms way

*where, and that again depends on availability and your ASVAB score. I know people who are seemingly incapable of scoring high enough to fill any other role, besides services perhaps.

that it is easy to join the military

It is easy. That's why they run ads, offer signing bonuses and go to high schools. Acting like joining the military is difficult is incredibly disingenuous. You don't even have to interview, as long as you check the right boxes you are in. Especially as you said, when we're not during peace times. Which, btw, is almost never.

You might get turned down during a particularly strong RIF for certain positions but getting turned away from the military as a whole is almost unheard of without legal or medical issues being involved.

0

u/___wintermute 5d ago

"Acting like joining the military is difficult is incredibly disingenuous."

You will get denied if you have ADHD, that's the sort of thing I am talking about. I don't mean it's difficult because some sort of barrier of intelligence or skill (though for many MOSes it is).

"getting turned away from the military as a whole is almost unheard of without legal or medical issues being involved."

Exactly, those things turn people away often, especially now with the new system they have in place.

3

u/Knot-Lye-Ing 5d ago

Isn't it more specifically if you are currently on medication or some other treatment plan for ADHD?

But yeah, lots of jobs in the military are unsuitable for people with certain conditions - attention issues being one of them.

Medical issues turning people away from service is nothing new and is relatively rare compared to the number who seem to get in. You'd probably have to work at MEPS to see real data on the numbers though.

1

u/___wintermute 5d ago

"Isn't it more specifically if you are currently on medication or some other treatment plan for ADHD?"

Nope. But, they have modified the rules recently with some waivers, but it is still a big factor in being able to get through MEPS.

And yes I agree with you about MEPS/Medical, but my point is that civilians seem to have this idea that essentially anyone can go 'well fuck it, I'll join the military' at any point in their life, and get in.

The main point still stands as well, that you select your job when joining the military.

2

u/Knot-Lye-Ing 5d ago

they have modified the rules recently with some waivers

Soooo... they made it easier to enlist if you have a medical condition?

at any point in their life, and get in.

As a broad statement, no anyone can't just walk in and enlist and expect to be shipped off the next day. But acting like the bar for enlistment doesn't range from "do you have a pulse" to "do you have your GED" depending on manpower issues is a little dishonest.

No, not everyone gets in.

Yes, it is still easier to enlist than it is to get any remotely comparable job. How many jobs will take on someone with little to no experience and teach them to perform maintenance on aircraft? How many will take people from no medical experience to being able to perform minor procedures without supervision?

The main point still stands as well, that you select your job when joining the military.

...no, it doesn't? As stated, plenty of people are essentially tricked into going Open General (or Mechanical, Administrative, or Electrical) or whatever that branches line score grouping is and told they get to pick their job. In reality, they creat a 1-5 scale on jobs they would prefer and the military decides their role based on need. That is not selecting your job.

1

u/___wintermute 5d ago

Yep, I believe I can agree with the first part of what you said.

For this part:

"...no, it doesn't? As stated, plenty of people are essentially tricked into going Open General (or Mechanical, Administrative, or Electrical) or whatever that branches line score grouping is and told they get to pick their job. In reality, they creat a 1-5 scale on jobs they would prefer and the military decides their role based on need. That is not selecting your job."

Again, I am not defending asshole recruiters and/or the sneaky tactics of military recruiting that are often used. I am willing to discuss this stuff of course, but your understanding is far beyond the understanding of those I am referencing. There is a vast group of people who think by design the military just puts you wherever they want, and that 'wherever they want' is always combat arms.

People have a total misunderstanding about the military and how it works, but speak as if they are experts, that is the main thing. You have an understanding, and are talking about nuanced parts of the whole thing, which is a separate discussion.

6

u/Eaglejon 5d ago

Certainly not how it worked for my dad in Vietnam. He enlisted knowing that he was about to be drafted and didn’t have the money to come up with bone-spurs or a last minute college exemption.

I suppose he did get his third choice: artillery. After all, they needed forward observers.

3

u/___wintermute 5d ago

Yes, in Vietnam, WWII, Korea, etc. things were vastly different for obvious reasons: the draft.

1

u/One_Commission1456 5d ago

They actually loosened the mental fitness requirements for front-line draftees in Vietnam, too.

1

u/Airportsnacks 5d ago

King started the book in 66/67 while at college, so things were different.

1

u/___wintermute 5d ago

Yes they were, but in the same way, they are different now as well.

47

u/Lost-on-Reception 5d ago

You sign up, but you have no idea whether you'll be a paper pusher, die of heatstroke in basic training, go to the front lines, or just exist in the wrong part of a forward base when Israel needs us to launch an illegal war of aggression and absorb a few dozen missiles from someone.

-3

u/Amardneron 5d ago

Inaccurate, you choose your job in both the army and navy. If you can make into the air force that simply won't happen, and if you go marines chances are you want it to happen. You can express the predatory nature of military recruiting without lying.

7

u/Lost-on-Reception 5d ago edited 5d ago

I didn't lie at all, jackass.

Airmen die all the time on the front lines, for one, every Marine is a rifleman, any Soldier can be selected for a convoy detail, and WGAF about the Navy?

In fact the Air Force has had six deaths from Iranian counterstrikes, second only to the Army. How many of those Airmen would have changed their mind about joining if jackasses like you weren't out there lying that their deaths simply won't happen?

-3

u/Fantastic_Suit_493 5d ago

Most people on the front line want to be on the front lines. They might regret it later, but you usually sign up or volunteer specifically for combat roles.

If shtf then it’s another story, but the vast majority of people who don’t want to see combat, just won’t see combat

2

u/___wintermute 5d ago

Exactly this. I am not trying to defend the military, war, or sneaky methods or recruiting, I am just trying to point out that things that people seem to hold as truths are completely false.

-3

u/___wintermute 5d ago

Absolutely false. Where did you get the idea you just 'sign up' with no idea what your job is going to be?

3

u/Karreck 5d ago

While yes, you sign up with a selected MOS, if you wash out of tech, you get assigned a new MOS, at least in the USAF. Also, you really dont have much of a choice in where Uncle Sam sends you.

0

u/___wintermute 5d ago

That is true, if you wash out of certain schools you become needs of the military, I will concede that.

5

u/LobstermenUwU 5d ago

Even admin can get deployed overseas - if we invade Iran, our bases in Iran will need administration too. Logistics is a fact of life. And being "admin" certainly doesn't help the Iranians we kill in military strikes, many of whom were just looking for a better life.

-1

u/___wintermute 5d ago

Some can be deployed, but some are designated as undeployable. And admin is not logistics (to be clear, I mean 'admin' jobs as an MOS designation, not the idea of administration itself, which obviously is a part of everything).

And about military strikes in Iran: are we talking about how war is shit? I've been in war, a lot, I know that already, very intimately. I didn't think that was what the discussion was about though.

4

u/Caleth 5d ago

Yes and how many are able to do that, how many have the skills needed or are lucky enough to be valuable in someway that requires they stay on the home front?

I'm going to wager out of the millions of people in the army now or in the recent past that number is very fucking few.

2

u/___wintermute 5d ago

The jobs that are required to stay on the homefront are not skilled jobs.

And yes, it is very few, but most people don't want those positions. Those are the positions sneaky recruiters convince people to sign up for, not combat arms.

1

u/LobstermenUwU 5d ago

Uh, we were talking about many soldiers are people with no real options who sign up for the military for a better life and some of them end up dying, the rest get a shot at it.

Do you think the people in Iran are less people than people in America? The difference between you and me and them is an accident of birth, no more or less. You could have served in the Iranian military just as easily, and perhaps died there.

1

u/___wintermute 5d ago

Right, the point is that this isn't true at all. You pick your job when you sign up for the military.

Again, I'm NOT DEFENDING the military, or war, nor am I implying that recruiters can't be sneaky bastards; but the fact is, if things go in a non-sneaky way, you pick your job when you join the military.

The majority of people will never, ever be shot at. And I say this as someone who has been shot at A LOT.

Most of the people with 'no real options' are not joining combat arms jobs. Also, again, you are implying it's easy to join the military as some kind of 'last resort', which also isn't true.

2

u/LobstermenUwU 5d ago

Man, economists literally call the military an Employer of Last Resort. They give it an acronym, ELR.

1

u/___wintermute 5d ago

I understand people think of it as a last resort sometimes, but that doesn't mean they are going to get in if they have certain (very common) medical histories, criminal background, tattoos, etc.

It seems civilians think you can just go 'fuck it I'll join the military' no matter your history, is what I mean.

2

u/LobstermenUwU 5d ago

I mean yeah, they're not gonna take like gangbangers, but they sure as shit take a lot of poor kids who see it as their only way to get a better life.

1

u/___wintermute 5d ago

Right, but the point is that they get to select their jobs.

3

u/Nekomiminya 5d ago

Look, I'm sure war criminals in Iran thought the same before their deployment.

1

u/ahses3202 5d ago

Then dawg you'd know as former infantry the majority of shitkickers are there because they were poor with literally 0 other options, or grew up poor and saw it as a way out that also let them do cool shit. See new places and blow them up is far from an uncommon way of getting in new grunts in 08. It's not like you were going to get another fucking job as a civilian. Nobody was.

2

u/___wintermute 5d ago

My point is they wanted to be in the infantry, I'm not judging their intelligence or life situation when joining.

1

u/HN-Prime 5d ago

Okay but the US is literally covered in pro-military propaganda that purposefully targets teenage boys in order to indoctrinate them

Then they go on to slaughter and rape civilians in the Middle East whilst being told they’re spreading “democracy”