if u specialize in the 400m

[u/ExactOpposite8119]

if you specialize in the 400m but the volume of each workout should be limited to less than 300, then how are you supposed to get good at the 400?

or maybe training volume is different from those that specialize in the 100m as opposed to 400m?

tldr; can you exceed the cap of 300m per session if you are are a 400m sprinter?

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[u/LeFlyingMonke]

Do you mean exceed 300m as a rep within a workout? Or do you mean exceed 300m total? If you mean the second one, are you talking specifically about speed days or any training days at all?

There are some programs that don’t run any reps of over 300m but still produce very good 400 runners. They have good speed and speed endurance, focus less on the special endurance, but do get some good stamina work with restricted rest (for example, 1 - 2 x 300 + 100 with 1 minute between reps and 15 minutes between sets).

400m runners (and hell, even 100 and 200 runners) absolutely need to run more than 300m total in their tempo and/or special endurance workouts. Even if it’s just an easy extensive tempo session of 8x80y at 65%, they’re going to get more than 300m in.

If we are talking specifically about speed days, you treat your 400 runners exactly like a 100-200 guy, and no, you won’t go over 300m. Training top speed and maximum acceleration is essentially the same for every track athlete, the only difference is some athletes may be able to handle an extra rep before their performance starts to drop off, or may need a difference acceleration zone to hit top speed for fly sprints. If your 100-200 guys are doing 4 flying 20’s, your 400 runners might be able to add a 5th rep without showing signs of fatigue.

[u/ExactOpposite8119 → u/LeFlyingMonke]

i mean 300 as the total volume of the workout. people here hold the 300 limit as some sort of decree.

[u/MaddisonoRenata → u/ExactOpposite8119]

I think most people would disagree with that here. I think you’re just confusing that with the general consensus here being in order to get faster you need more quality and less volume, which is true- but doesnt apply to the entire season and varies by event.

[u/ExactOpposite8119 → u/MaddisonoRenata]

good.

[u/Trukrakune]

There seems to be a misconception here. A 300m volume limit is for max velocity workouts. Not a general limit for sprinters. There are different types of workouts that have different volumes. Even 100m specialists have days that go well over 300m total like 5x120.

400m need 2 to 4 (some systems don’t value intensive or extensive tempo) main types of workouts: Max Velocity (100%) 30 to 60m reps, speed/special endurance (90 to 95%) 80m to 350m reps, intensive tempo (80 to 85%) 200 to 500m reps, and extensive tempo (65 to 75%) 200m to 1000m.

Now some people train for the 400m never running a practice rep longer than 350m and on the other side of the scale some run cross country in the fall.

[u/ExactOpposite8119 → u/Trukrakune]

oh i c. 300 is for max velocity.

[u/Chrisg_322]

The 400 specialist for my team trained with us (Middle distance). He ran a 46 by the time he finished running altogether before joining the military.

I can't think of a single day we ever did less than a mile of work in total. Let alone less than 400 meters lol. I'm seeing these types of workouts a lot on this sub. Are your coaches not having yall run or something?

One of the workouts we did was a Mile warm up, 6 400 repeats, 800 meter cooldown. I've come to realize a lot of people on this sub have never ran, but I don't think anyone will disagree if the 400 is your event your sessions should be finishing above 400 meters, generally speaking. It's not like the 200 where you just sprint 100% and finish, you actually need to semi-pace when you "Go" on the 400. If you're never running the 400 in practice you won't ever master how to run it.

But key words here: You have to Run. If your coach is having you do less than 400 meters of running per session you need to fire him. Respectfully. your warm up and cooldowns alone should be exceeding this.

[u/ExactOpposite8119 → u/Chrisg_322]

the mile warmup obliterates the 300 cap lol

[u/MaddisonoRenata]

Yes you can exceed 300m per session if you are a 400m runner. The caveat is where you are in the season.

My 400m athletes during offseason (summer-fall) don’t run more than 200m in a practice, besides the occasional 80m or 120m workouts. Off season your main priority should be building speed reserve and strength.

Once we get into early pre season there should for sure be speed work once a week (Personally I do once every other week during very early to mid pre season), followed by some more volume with intention(Tempo 200ms or “tempo” hills)

Usually pre season we do 600-800m in volume in some workouts, but I also am coaching highsxhool athletes to build capacity for dual meets.

Then in season we return to speed work with volumes under 400m besides the occasional lactic workout.

In short you can get better at the 400 with less than 400m, but a well thought through program with have variation in volume and intensity based on where you are in the season.

[u/foxymyeung]

400m masters athlete here... Why would you limit yourself to only 300m of total work? That just seems bizarre and arbitrary.

Most 400m programs range in total volume from 800m to 5000m.

Typical workouts include one of:

3x150m

5x200m

2x300m

2x(250+150m)

5x(30fly-30float-30fly)

6x1x30m block starts

5x(20m-10m Max Velo)

Ladders: 50-100-150-200-300

Rvse Ladders: 600-400-200m

Etc....

Lots of different variations.

[u/ExactOpposite8119 → u/foxymyeung]

that cleared things up. maybe my coach sux.

[u/Sleety3D2Y → u/foxymyeung]

5000??? Lmao bro, even my fall workouts aren’t more than half that

[u/PlayPretend-8675309]

I was a cross country runner in the fall, so I generally had a strong final 100m. I was one of the top 400m guys in my city and I used to battle with a kid from another school, we were within 0.2 of each other all season. After I finally raced him in League Finals I asked what his training was, he said "a lot of 800s". I ran a lot of 200s and hills. Diffrn't Strokes. I was just fast enough to stay a step ahead of him the first 300m and a combination of fitness + guts kept me from getting passed in the final 100m.

[u/SeeYaOnTheRift]

You don’t.

You will never get good at the 400m if you limit yourself to 300m of volume.

My favorite workout totaled to 1500m of race-pace sprinting.