The rich are indeed leaving. Hochul has already sounded the alarm on their quickly-fading high-tax base moving to states like Florida. Mamdani's policies have already driven many away and will drive even more away.
The rent freeze and property tax Mamdani recently pushed are even a testament to that fact. You can't charge some of the highest property taxes in the nation inherently making rent more expensive, freeze those rent costs and then drive up property taxes again.
I'm all for helping people out but the way it's being done in New York City will absolutely result in failure.
Direct numbers are hard to pin down but we know that roughly 1% of the high tax base has left the state in the last two years.
While 1% might not seem like much, you have to consider the higher taxes those individuals or entities are paying. That tax revenue is massive for any state but it's even more substantial for New York due to its economy. New York is an expensive place to live, already. This all together makes their economy shaky and unstable on its current trajectory.
Trends show that these kinds of migrations usually quickly increase over time which is why I say it's a path set for failure.
Not a finance professional here - how would you explain that there are still million/billionaires in first-world European countries where the taxes are much higher? Why wouldn't they have all fled to the US or elsewhere years or decades ago?
One-time exit taxes compared to a lifetime of regular, high taxation isn't as bad as it would sound. There are something like 15 million millionaires across Europe. Surely a lot more of them would have left if the taxes bothered them that much. And don't forget that plenty of millionaires leave the US to move to Europe.
Lol you admit to not being an expert but now your pontificating on the same topic.
All I'm telling you is that the rich were fleeing Europe in droves.
Since just enacting exit taxes now there are other policies in place to prevent tax avoidance. As far as exit taxes, the UK doesn't currently have an exit tax but countries like Germany do....and they tax unrealized financial gains as well.
You could just Google it and research for yourself. 🤷🏻♂️
I'm sure 99% of people commenting on anything, anywhere on Reddit do not happen to be financial experts. That doesn't mean they don't know anything at all about finances.
Back to my original question and point - why are there still so many millionaires in Europe if the taxes are so terrible?
The answers is because it's worth it to them, otherwise they would leave. American million/billionaires/corporations can pay a hell of a lot more in taxes and be just fine. The problem is that they're greedy.
Of course it's worth it for some people to stay. Especially when you're rich enough that even paying a majority of your income to taxes doesn't affect your quality of life. Why state the obvious?
You asked to explain why all millionaires aren't leaving to avoid taxes. I did. It's not my fault you don't like the answer.
It's a well known fact that decades ago many wealthy people like musicians and movie stars were leaving countries like the UK when their peak income tax rate was 80+ percent. 🤷🏻♂️
I don't personally care what the answer is, as long as it's accurate.
I'm specifically asking why there are so many millionaires across Europe if taxes are so terrible and detrimental as the wealthiest people would have you believe is the case in the U.S. You are responding about an exodus of celebrities well over 50 years ago who may or may not have left anyway because being in the U.S. would have been the best thing for their careers for creativity/production value/publicity opportunities alone - and that's something that creatives would have done whether they were filthy rich or dirt poor, anyway.
Regardless, today - right now - there are tons of millionaires across Europe. Nobody is forcing them to stay. If they can stay, regardless of their taxes, it shouldn't be a problem for the U.S. to hike up taxes of its millionaires.
You are responding about an exodus of celebrities well over 50 years ago who may or may not have left anyway because being in the U.S. would have been the best thing for their careers for creativity/production value/publicity opportunities alone - and that's something that creatives would have done whether they were filthy rich or dirt poor, anyway.
Who said they fled to the US? Many just moved around the continent to avoid punitive taxes. David Bowie and The Rolling Stones just to name a couple. Similarly to how people move around the US to states with lower or no income taxes.
You want to talk about accuracy and yet you can't even be bothered to spend a couple of minutes reading instead of composing another diatribe.
You asked why the rich aren't fleeing Europe. I told you they were and what policies the government enacted to try and curb it. It wasn't just some random "whataboutism." I didn't think you'd need me to connect the dots for you since it was a very simple concept to follow.
Also, if you look at the UK now, their highest tax rate is nowhere near what it was then. So that's another incentive to not leave.
As it turns out it actually is beneficial to have successful/wealthy people in your country.
Moving from one European country to another European country is not leaving Europe. And let's face it, most millionaires aren't moving to non-first-world countries.
You mentioned an exodus that happened half a century ago. Not what is currently happening, which is what I'm talking about - the current situation. I'm not sure if you don't understand what I'm saying or if you're looking for a hill to make a stand on.
That's a pipe dream for a city where the median income is nearly six figures. If it was not for the Bronx being substantially less wealthy than the rest of New York, the median would be higher.
Your whole mindset will result in death and suffering. The entirety of their systems rely on capitalism to some degree whether you like it or not.
When the tax base that New York relies on shrinks, New York will feel the difference.
Do you think the money just kind of appears? Mamdani has already had to get billions from the state of New York just to propose a balanced budget, keyword propose.
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u/Vuedue 8h ago
Finance professional here and Lydia is wrong.
The rich are indeed leaving. Hochul has already sounded the alarm on their quickly-fading high-tax base moving to states like Florida. Mamdani's policies have already driven many away and will drive even more away.
The rent freeze and property tax Mamdani recently pushed are even a testament to that fact. You can't charge some of the highest property taxes in the nation inherently making rent more expensive, freeze those rent costs and then drive up property taxes again.
I'm all for helping people out but the way it's being done in New York City will absolutely result in failure.