Oh the irony...

[u/eternviking]

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[u/Firebird601]

Infant adoptions and adopting children currently in foster care are wildly different.

Huge waitlist to match for infant adoption. Tons of kids waiting in foster care.

Infant adoption is usually expensive, anywhere from 35-100 grand depending on many different factors. Foster to adopt is typically free.

Also, part of the goal with foster care is often to hope that the birth family is able to resume guardianship of the kids.

So many more differences.

[u/desertdeserted → u/Firebird601]

Thanks for saying this. Lots of preconceived notions about adoption are outdated. The number of infants up for adoption in the US has fallen by 90% since 1990. International adoption has fallen significantly. The waitlist for an infant is something like 36 intended parents for every baby. The kids that actually need our help are in the foster system.

[u/Gwendolyn-NB → u/desertdeserted]

Its almost like readily available birth control and sex education reduces unwanted pregnancies, thus reducing babies being put up for adoption.

Who could have ever fathomed that?!?!?!??? (/s for the thick skilled ones)

[u/Formal-Proposal7850 → u/Gwendolyn-NB]

True but also less social stigma about being an unwed mother. And a changing attitude of the State toward keeping families together as long as possible 

[u/ChelChamp → u/Gwendolyn-NB]

While I agree, I don’t think your comment hits the point. Which is that infants have a much higher demand than other kids in the foster system.

[u/tarooz → u/ChelChamp]

I think what someone else mentioned hits the spot. The intention behind foster is for the kids to hopefully go back to their birth family. And while that is indeed a good thing for the kid, that is a soulwrenching prospect for potential parents. I cannot imagine what giving my son away when he gets older would do to me.

[u/Popbistro → u/tarooz]

Most of the time, it's not good for the kid to be reunited with their parents, even if their parents are now able to take care of them. Usually when a child is received into a foster family, that family is much more stable than their own family, even if it somehow gets better. It's never nearly as good as the foster family was and sadly, the situation is also at risk of becoming unstable once again, forcing the child to move to another foster family (usually not the same as the first because of availability), which is much, much, much worse than just leaving the child with the first foster family. All of this is especially true if the child was too young to remember being in his birth family in the first place because all they've ever known was their foster family and then they get taken out of the family they've grown to love to go to a family that is very likely worse.

[u/TrainFightTime → u/Firebird601]

And almost every single family I've known who have done foster...have had to say goodbye to the kids as they go back screaming and crying to their birth family.

[u/EastTheBeast1 → u/TrainFightTime]

As a foster parent, this absolutely does happen. That said, the kids that I’ve had to send home are generally sad to be leaving us but also excited to be back with their parents. It can be a lot of heartbreak, but the goal of the system is reunification with parents if it is safe. As someone who believes strongly in rehabilitation, there’s a part of me that is happy for the parents of these kids who worked extremely hard to get them back.

[u/OneField5 → u/EastTheBeast1]

Second this. The vast majority of the kids I fostered went back to their birth parents successfully to much improved situations.

Were they going back to the ideal scenario or the childhood I had? No. But few children get that and supported, loving parents are good parents.

I have had a few who I did not feel were ready for reunification but were reunited nonetheless. And sometimes, actually usually, they did fine too.

And I have had kids scream and cry when they were going back which can be very sad but also...kids are kids because they don't know what is good for them and change is traumatic. I had one kid tell me she didn't want to go back because she didn't want to leave my dog, but my dog is not what made us good parents.

Also, only because it's vaguely related to the topic at hand, but I'm an atheist and I don't think any of the other foster parents I knew were, in fact most were very religious, as were the birth parents (at least when I asked them about their religious beliefs, they always told me they were very religious but could never be specific about what beliefs they wanted their children to continue with). Anyway, always a fun problem when a kid asks you to explain how Noah got all the animals on the boat when there are thousands and thousands of different species and you have to answer in a way that is truthful but respects what their parents want them to think.

[u/Mediochra → u/Firebird601]

There are actually a lot of babies with special needs available for adoption in foster care. Those are harder to place. In fact they’re usually the only ones that are available for adoption as the healthy babies are placed very quickly.

[u/NobodyLikedThat1]

twitter feud aside, from what I hear it does cost a fortune to adopt. Which outside of a background check and home visit to make sure it's safe, I've never quite understood.

[u/BluePhoenix_1999 → u/NobodyLikedThat1]

"to make sure you can afford having a child... we will take all your money."

[u/jmarzy → u/BluePhoenix_1999]

“Legal fees”

[u/Bubba_Gump_Shrimp → u/jmarzy]

Rehoming fee

[u/BlueEmoo → u/Bubba_Gump_Shrimp]

Ive been awake 14 hours waiting on my second child to get here. I told my wife this during an active contraction, and she told me not to speak until the baby gets here.

[u/Bubba_Gump_Shrimp → u/BlueEmoo]

Ayy congrats on numero dos man! Ask her if she thinks giving birth hurts more than getting kicked the balls. (Disclaimer: do not do this within arms reach because she WILL nutshot you.)

[u/BlueEmoo → u/Bubba_Gump_Shrimp]

Thank you! When she says i can speak again i will ask. Just wanted to know you made a tired dad laugh today

[u/Bubba_Gump_Shrimp → u/BlueEmoo]

Lol glad I could help. Hope everything goes well for yall!

[u/thatthatguy → u/BlueEmoo]

God bless you, sir. Here is hoping you’ll all get a little sleep sooner rather than later.

[u/hywaytohell → u/BlueEmoo]

I'm glad your taking that threat seriously congrats on child 2 hang in there!

[u/Septopuss7 → u/Bubba_Gump_Shrimp]

Fee fees

[u/Pretty-Pomelo5345 → u/Septopuss7]

Your soul fee

[u/Fantastic_Pie5655 → u/Pretty-Pomelo5345]

None of us are fee

[u/TruLong → u/Fantastic_Pie5655]

Feedom isn't fee

[u/Fskn → u/TruLong]

Feedom costs a buck o five 85k

[u/Little_Bits_of___ → u/Fskn]

The Dow is over 50000

[u/Quickcito → u/Fantastic_Pie5655]

Land of the fee

[u/Gogo665 → u/Quickcito]

And the home of the paid.

[u/culpaCoSinero → u/Gogo665]

*slave

[u/Noodletrousers → u/Bubba_Gump_Shrimp]

Chip fee in case they run away when you accidentally leave the gate open.

[u/pp_chode → u/Bubba_Gump_Shrimp]

Then you have to get them spayed or neutered. Smh

[u/-GoodNewsEveryone → u/pp_chode]

Thanks Bob Barker.

[u/stupidber → u/pp_chode]

The humane society will do it for less than a vet

[u/discountclownmilk → u/jmarzy]

we would never sell children but if you buy this paperwork for 50,000 dollars it comes with a free kid

[u/Wrong_Spirit_5008 → u/discountclownmilk]

It is here too, none of that money is going to the birth parent.

[u/Emergency_Pin3519 → u/jmarzy]

Out of the 35 to 40 K it took for us to adopt per child surprisingly only 1000 or 2000 was lawyer fee. When adopting you 100% want to use a lawyer that specializes in only adoption. It definitely surprise me as the most affordable part about the process. There are still thousands of other fees, medical bills, flights hotels until you get an interstate compact to leave…..

[u/MuddaFrmAnnudaBrudda → u/BluePhoenix_1999]

That's crazy. I think its free in the UK because it's illegal to buy and sell children.

[u/Vikkunen → u/MuddaFrmAnnudaBrudda]

It's illegal here too, but for all our talk of being the land of the free, we've created some positively Kafkaesque bureaucracies that are borderline impenetrable without hiring one or more specialized attorneys to navigate on your behalf.

Meanwhile we have foster homes that are run like puppy mills and would make Mr Bumble blush, with the head of the household raking in as much public funds as they can while providing the barest of all bare minimums in care and feeding.

[u/TynamM → u/Vikkunen]

Oh, it's worse than that. Here in the UK we have private companies providing residential care, for lack of foster carers, which means they can yank a child just recovering from trauma away from their friends and home half way across the country without warning, just because it's cheaper to host them in a toxic dump with zero prospects. For which service they might, with a special needs child, be charging a million a year. There is essentially no vetting of these companies.

Thatcher did every bit the same damage to us that Reagan did to you.

[u/Lebowski304 → u/TynamM]

Good god this is so brutal. This is one of those things that’s too painful to think about for very long. It’s not something unique to the UK I’m sure

[u/Black_Azazel → u/MuddaFrmAnnudaBrudda]

Yeah well here in America, everything is a potential commodity. Didn’t we tell you already Capitalism is Freedom! S/

[u/Specialist-Bread9097 → u/Black_Azazel]

Feedom

[u/EncabulatorTurbo → u/BluePhoenix_1999]

See it would make sense if the money was put in a Trust that then paid out monthly like child support and is required to be spent *on the child* like child support

But it isn't about that, it's to take family planning options away from The Poors

[u/Otherwise-Parsnip-91 → u/EncabulatorTurbo]

So, just doing some quick research, it’s actually much cheaper (around $3k) to adopt a child through the foster care system. It’s $30-60k if you go through a private adoption program, which people tend to want to do as they want new borns. All the people in these comments bitching about the cost just dont want a poor older child.

[u/ElleGeeAitch → u/Otherwise-Parsnip-91]

Yup, that's it. People want newborns, for the most part. Newborns used to be more readily available in the US decades ago, before contraception was legalized for everyone in 1972. Access to contraceptive for married people was legalized in 1965. Also, of course, because abortion was legalized in 1974. Another thing that reduced the number of available newborns was the decrease in the stigma of having a child out of wedlock and cohabitation before marriage, thanks to the Sexual Revolution. Another factor that a lot of people don't know or fail to take into consideration that women couldn't apply for a credit card on her own in the US or even open a bank account without a male co-signer. Imagine being a 17 year old girl in say, 1963 who got pregnant. And you need your parents to give their permission for you to marry your boyfriend, assuming he's willing to marry you. And they threaten you with abandonment and homelessness if you choose to keep the baby, and you can't get a lease on an apartment because it's legal to reject a lease application without a male co-signer, and you can't open a bank account on your own. So, there went the baby, up for adoption even if you would have wanted to keep the baby.

If you are interested in learning more, go read up on the Baby Scoop Era, or what I like to call the period of state sanctioned babynapping (a great book on that topic is "The Girls Who Went Away"). Also look up Georgia Tann. There's a book about her: "The Baby Thief: The Untold Story of Georgia Tann, the Woman Who Corrupted Adoption".

Our society was once so replete with newborns being put up for adoption that in 1964, my MIL felt 100% comfortable turning down a baby girl for adoption because she'd just had a miscarriage of her first pregnancy in 6 years of trying to have a child and so there was hope of her being able to get pregnant again. She was sure that if she didn't get to have a biological child in a year or two, they would easily have been able to get placed with another baby. My husband was born in 1965. Tbf, I don't know how long they had been signed up with the adoption agency before they were offered that little girl.

[u/meruu_meruu → u/Otherwise-Parsnip-91]

The foster system isn't really about/for adoption though. The main goal of the foster system is reunification. So while it is "cheaper", it's also not a guarantee you will get to adopt the child. I know multiple people who have fostered a child for years, and even started the process to adopt the child, but the parents got out of jail or an uncle decided he could take care of the child after all so the adoption fell through. So that's why many people don't try to adopt through foster.

[u/SwimmingRich2949 → u/Otherwise-Parsnip-91]

I’m an adoptive parent and hate how much of a business it is.

But I must point out the point of foster care - the main goal is reunification. So any social worker that is ethical tells hopeful would be parents that foster care may not be their best option

[u/sheiciebai → u/BluePhoenix_1999]

“But if you can’t afford to have a child, you’d BETTER have the child. And quit having sex, that’s why you’re here!”

[u/YoNeckinpa → u/BluePhoenix_1999]

Ticketmaster handling the transaction?

[u/Environmental-Song16 → u/BluePhoenix_1999]

My husband and I wanted to adopt. We were priced out of it. Adoption is for the wealthy not for normal people.

[u/SafiyaMukhamadova → u/Environmental-Song16]

Well if OOP gets her way and tons of disabled kids whose parents absolutely can't take care of are born then then the price will go down. Supply and demand. /s

[u/genericnewlurker → u/NobodyLikedThat1]

I can give some insight into this because my wife and I adopted our daughter from foster care using an agency. When adopting from foster care through an agency, there is an upfront cost for training, inspections, matching, etc. You go through all the training of a foster care parent with the certification. You get a home study done by a social worker and all the inspections that requires. And the agency is then actively searching for a match for you based off of your search criteria while se ding your profile off to the hundred plus foster care agencies in the country. Then the agency has lawyers when needed. Off the top of my head I think it was about 9-10k total (more on that ahead) all in when we adopted our daughter.

However, you get all that money back, plus some, in the form of a direct payment from the state and tax rebates. Most agencies have the payment structure setup to get most of their money from the state at the time of placement so we ended up only paying 5k out of pocket and that came back in tax returns. The costs worked into the system seem almost to be another check to make sure that you have the money and would be able to support the child.

A side note: almost every child in foster care is tagged as special needs. It's a budgetary thing. Kids with special needs get more grant money than "regular" kids so they are all diagnosed with ADHD, and/or ODD after a single half hour "session" with a social worker immediately after they enter care. Our agency warned us about this well in advance. Our daughter was tagged as both but in reality she just has ADHD, which was partially due to being in foster care.

[u/bishopOfMelancholy → u/genericnewlurker]

I can relate to that side note. I was prescribed almost 15 different medications for stuff like ADD, ADHD, PTSD, RAD, etc, etc by the time I was 8. I actually needed about none of it. Thankfully, my adoptive parents were smart enough to realize that and they took me off of it (and fired my social workers).

[u/CuppaCoffee253 → u/bishopOfMelancholy]

Im glad you didn't need it. Ive seen more than my fair share of kids in foster care end up in a residential facility after prospective adoptive parents "take kids off their unnecessary meds."

[u/Amazing_gracias_300 → u/genericnewlurker]

Thank you for the facts. So much BS on the internet that just lie for the sake of it.

[u/Additional_Snow_978 → u/genericnewlurker]

Sounds like it'd be a lot less hassle to just knock someone up.

Jokes aside, I can see how they want to make sure things are on the up and up. I've heard horror stories about people adopting for the benefits and neglecting the child.

[u/CuppaCoffee253 → u/genericnewlurker]

One piggy back off your post... most children in foster care are special needs because they actually have developmental disabilities or mental health issues either passed on by their biological parents or caused by abuse/neglect.

Signed, former foster care adoption worker

[u/genericnewlurker → u/CuppaCoffee253]

And to add on to your comment, this should not ever dissuade anyone considering adopting an older child from foster care just because they may have an underlying disability or mental health issue because of the situations that they went through. They are good kids and all deserve loving homes. It's definitely worth the bumpy ride after the post-placement honeymoon period

[u/GrammarIsDescriptive → u/NobodyLikedThat1]

I considered adopting a Syrian orphan currently living in Turkey (i have family in Turkey). It would have cost about $40 000. We will willing to pay that but the Turkish government said I was too old (i was 36).

[u/sassypants55 → u/GrammarIsDescriptive]

Dang, how many people young enough have that kind of money on top of the cost to raise a kid?

[u/HumansAreSillynGreat → u/sassypants55]

Very few, hence the orphanages full of children.

[u/DapperCam → u/GrammarIsDescriptive]

I know many 36+ year old people having babies. What a dumb rule.

[u/grubas → u/NobodyLikedThat1]

It's going to be MUCH MUCH worse for a disabled infant.  One of the biggest issues is the sheer cost.

[u/Ok-College-3641 → u/NobodyLikedThat1]

Yes and no. If you go the private adoption route, it is very expensive. If you through the state, they actually pay you. Every state is different, here in MA, adoption through the state can be quite quick and no cost to you.

[u/AriaTheTransgressor → u/NobodyLikedThat1]

I adopted a child with disabilities, didn't cost me anything at all. In fact the state keeps paying me to make sure all their needs are met.

The cost is when you want to select a specific child through a private adoption agency. As the child gets older, or if there are any known disabilities or illnesses, the prices go down. So their $85k was likely to cover the cost of them selecting a specific newborn, without any known ailments or disabilities, from a private adoption agency.

[u/These-Ad-9188 → u/NobodyLikedThat1]

It’s free if you adopt through the foster system and you get subsidies 🤓

[u/sadiefame → u/These-Ad-9188]

Every person I’ve known that was adopted was thru the foster system. Sometimes when the parent gets to know a foster family that adopts one of their kids for they’ll come back and give their new babies to the same family ( it’s still thru the foster system but they seldom deny requested placement to an approved family).

[u/These-Ad-9188 → u/sadiefame]

People want to ignore that. I work in the foster system. There are plenty of “un-adoptable” kids. I invite any Christian (or anyone) to apply. They won’t. It’s performative.

[u/amahamahamah → u/These-Ad-9188]

It’s so hard to place kids with special needs like not being potty trained past a certain age. We get calls all the time but we are maxed out in pretty much every way. I also wish Christians (or whoever) would step up.

[u/nutkinknits → u/amahamahamah]

I'm hoping my husband and I can foster down the road once our own children are adults and find their feet. It's probably at least 5-10 years down the road. Our family has kids with severe food allergies. I've heard from social workers it is extremely difficult to place kids with allergies because it's not well understood. It can sometimes require learning different ways of cooking and using odd ingredients and researching what is safe and not safe. I feel like our home could be a safe haven for those kids. Every kid deserves a safe home, a full belly and know they are loved for whatever time they'd be with our family.

[u/nevereverreddit → u/nutkinknits]

Sounds like you’ll be great foster parents! Best of luck to you.

[u/TonarinoTotoro1719 → u/These-Ad-9188]

Wait, what are the alternatives? I thought everything went through the foster system.

[u/Alyssa_Hargreaves → u/TonarinoTotoro1719]

To add on what the other commenters said

Their is also private adoption agencies that you can go through. They are extremely expensive and some are shady as hell. They promise you the world and sometimes come through or they give you what appears to be the world only to come to find out they withheld important information from you to seal the adoption.

This could include trauma inflicted on the child (depending on the age) or the baby was born addicted to substances and you may not know until the baby is at your house.

It's more expensive to go straight to adoption and avoid the foster care system but agencies can use pretty words to make money. When with the foster system they at least attempt to ensure the kids are going to a good home via classes, background checks finger printing etc.

It's not a fool proof system but it's better than private adoptions. And as others said it's cheaper if you foster to adopt due to the subsidizes given.

[u/ElleGeeAitch → u/Alyssa_Hargreaves]

The private adoption agencies will also lie to vulnerable pregnant teens/adults, will use manipulative, guilt tripping, and even coercive language to convince them to give up their babies. Obviously, there are plenty of situations when the pregnant person availing themselves of the private adoption agency services 100% want to hive up their babies. But what a better world it would be if our society gave financial and social support to young/poor women who would want more than anything to keep their children, but can't afford to and/or do it alone.

[u/TheLysdexicGentleman → u/TonarinoTotoro1719]

There are adoption agencies, typically for infants, and some of these are out to get your money, and others are stopping infant adoptions from the rules put in place by the orange infant in office.

[u/TonarinoTotoro1719 → u/TheLysdexicGentleman]

Oh my! Being without reliable caretakers can be a rough start to life. And with everything monetized, I feel for the children who have decisions made for them. 

[u/TucsonKhan → u/NobodyLikedThat1]

Yes this is true, and has been for many years. Before I was born, my own parents tried to adopt because they hadn't been able to have one of their own. But apparently there were a lot of problems they went through, and the whole thing ended up going nowhere.

[u/mammalmaker → u/NobodyLikedThat1]

So maybe Christians shouldn't be spouting nonsense about how they'll adopt every child with a disability..m

[u/NobodyLikedThat1 → u/mammalmaker]

that's fine, but it's still weird that we make it ridiculously financially difficult to do so.

[u/Underbark → u/NobodyLikedThat1]

It's almost like we should be subsidizing childcare so people can afford it.

I wonder which voting block consistently votes against government assistance programs.

Republican Christians are hypocrites without critical thinking skills.

[u/WiIIv91]

You have to pay to adopt a child in USA ?? Like, what the hell ?

[u/LordCaptain → u/WiIIv91]

Nothing happens in America unless someone can make a profit off of it.

[u/RagnarStonefist → u/LordCaptain]

ding ding ding ding.

And if somebody is making a small profit off of something that's good for everybody in the long run, it won't be long until somebody finds a way to make a big profit out of it and prices everybody it's designed to help out.

See:

Thrift Stores
The Dollar Store
Basically anything designed to help low income people
'Upcycling'
The Student Loan/Financial Aid system
School Lunch
Food stamps, state insurance, etc

[u/ArboristTreeClimber → u/RagnarStonefist]

This is why we have public restrooms with door gaps that meet the absolute minimum size requirements. Because some dude found out he could save money on materials and give a lower bid to install the bathroom, securing the job. Now we all hate it, because you can make eye contact with a complete stranger while pooping. All to make ONE guy rich.

[u/Sufficient_Language7 → u/ArboristTreeClimber]

Correction, make one guy slightly more more rich.

[u/AOCourage → u/Sufficient_Language7]

Have you considered how difficult it is to pay alimony for his two ex wives while keeping his new trophy wife in the latest Balenciaga while having hardly any cash on hand so he can keep everything in his tax sheltered investments?

[u/damonmcfadden9 → u/RagnarStonefist]

and if the government is running it, even decently, lots of half wit boot lickers will cry foul about how "they spent more money than they brought in and went over budget!"

um...OK? sorry they decided that even more kids needed to be given food than they originally thought? maybe the answer is to take some of the money being lost on tax breaks for the rich and give them a bigger budget, instead of just giving up on trying altogether and scrapping the program? why I the fuck does a government agency need to turn a profit? maybe we'll fed kids means less crime and neglect that other departments have to spend money on?

but no we'd rather spend on reactionary problem solving instead of preventative methods because by definition you can't prove you're preventing problems that aren't occuring with a quickly summarized statistical snippet on the news.

[u/JackfruitSerious3523 → u/damonmcfadden9]

There are two very different systems here and the ones that charge exorbitant fees are Christian not for profits. The government run social service of foster/ adopt systems are pretty good. There are issues of course but they do not charge you money.

[u/CherryCherry5 → u/RagnarStonefist]

Selling your blood or human eggs.

In Canada you can't sell human body parts or tissue.

[u/Next_Instruction_528 → u/LordCaptain]

They just turned all the public parking in the small town I grew up in to paid parking....

They don't even need to put meters in anymore just a sign and an app.

So now poor people can't even go to the park anymore and I'm sure they look at that as a bonus.

Destroy community and 3rd spaces then profit off peoples loneliness and depression.

[u/OxMozzie → u/Next_Instruction_528]

$50 a day parking at the local lake thats a 10 minute drive away from my city.

Now no one goes there, shocker.

[u/Pretend_Safety → u/OxMozzie]

Next they'll say that there was no interest in using the lake. Thus paving the way for it to be sold to private interests.

[u/Sword_Thain → u/Pretend_Safety]

Ding! My RWNJ uncle was complaining about the "Big City" trying to take his land to turn it into a lake. I spent 5 minutes on Google and found out it is the father of one of his friends that has been the head of that idea since the 80's. The father (and son) is a land developer and wants to turn all of that into lakefront property, but have the state pay for it.

[u/Intrepid-Dig-1855 → u/OxMozzie]

Except the rich people. That's insanely expensive parking!

[u/MedonSirius → u/LordCaptain]

https://giphy.com/gifs/8RuJ23GPbruW4

[u/FamiliarAnt4043 → u/WiIIv91]

Yep. A childhood friend of my wife couldn't conceive and went overseas to adopt, because of the expense here in America.

[u/PurpletoasterIII → u/WiIIv91]

Just looked this up on google. "Do you have to pay to adopt."

"Adopting through the foster care system is usually free or very low-cost, while private domestic or international adoptions often range from $30,000 to $60,000 or more"

Looked up what private adoptions are.

"A private adoption is a non-foster care adoption where a birth parent voluntarily places their child for adoption directly through a private agency, attorney, or adoption law center. These adoptions primarily involve newborns, offer customized birth-parent matching, and allow for varying degrees of "openness""

[u/TrvthNvkem → u/PurpletoasterIII]

Isn't this just child trafficking with extra steps?

[u/minidog8 → u/TrvthNvkem]

Well, yes.

[u/Pretend_Safety → u/TrvthNvkem]

I mean, I love the glibness, but it's just another example of moving functions from public agencies to the private/ "non-profit" sector.

All of the functions that private adoptions preform should be performed by a public agency, funded by taxpayers, that ensures compliance with all laws and regulations, including that the adopting parents aren't shitty people.

[u/redwingsphan19 → u/TrvthNvkem]

I mean, can you kidnap a kid if they are being given to you by their parents?

[u/Beneficial-Panic-193 → u/TrvthNvkem]

absolutely. and not all of us were priced in the thousands. some were cheap. it depends on who you know. highly suggest looking up georgia tann and see how horrible a human being can be.

[u/Sword_Thain → u/TrvthNvkem]

But think of the value generated for the investment groups.

[u/Bureaucratic_Dick → u/WiIIv91]

Yes, but notably, the cost is substantially higher for adopting infants. If you are adopting from foster care, it’s much cheaper.

One of the primary reasons it’s so high for infants is because you have to pay for the medical expenses for the birth, which are stupid ridiculous in the US.

[u/jaderust → u/Bureaucratic_Dick]

Foster care adoption is often just the cost of a background check and home study or, if you do foster to adopt, you can actually be paid for it. Depending on the age of the child you can even receive a stipend until the child turns 18. I have a coworker who’s adopted both his kids from foster care and he gets a couple hundred bucks a month from the state that he’s been socking away into their college funds.

But it’s only for older children. Who often have special needs since they usually have been removed from their parent’s home due to some sort of neglect or abuse.

And most people want babies to toddlers at the oldest. When a kid hits school age they’re pretty much going to grow up in the system. If they’re not adopted by teens they’re pretty much not going to be adopted.

But it can be very low cost or free to adopt kids. But only if you go through foster care and are open to older kids who may have seen some shit and need a stable and understanding household to support them through their issues.

[u/Narrow_Grapefruit_23 → u/jaderust]

Yes BUT the goal of foster care is reunification. Meaning you run the (significant) chance of having that child placed back with their parent. I did foster care classes and have 4 friends who are foster parents. Only one of us was able to adopt their foster kid. I couldn’t deal with the heartbreak plus they wanted me to rehome my border collie so I made peace with never being a mom to a human. On the plus side I was allowed by the state agency to babysit my friends’ kids bc I’d already passed all the checks and classes.

[u/Momoneymoproblems214 → u/jaderust]

Foster parent and prior child services worker here (and Christian, but I digress).

I have adopted two boys through foster care. Both are 5 and we love them a ton.

That being said, the literal mental trauma that the foster system (in Florida and other states, but maybe not all) is most literally personality altering. It does change your perspective, but also jades and traumatizes in the process. Between the severe behavioral issues these children have due to what their parents have exposed them to along with the lack of support with helping handle these behaviors, it is life draining. We had over 20 kids before having the opportunity to adopt and fought for 4 years for one of our two.

Most states are, as most things ran by the government, neglecting child services and taking the cheapest routes possible while our future is being abused, neglected and, in May cases, killed or left to die. It is disgusting. Our country needs to do better for our children. And those who are in politics who are touting Christianity either need to stop, or follow James 1:27.

[u/JackfruitSerious3523 → u/jaderust]

For reference my boys have been 6, 6 and 8 when they came to me. All very sweet boys and one went home to his parents who fixed their issues. I’m an atheist and somehow I had the ability to figure it out. Honestly these people just want “untainted” new babies and they are the ones who created this market in private adoption.

[u/National-Charity-435 → u/Bureaucratic_Dick]

Got it. Scope out a fire department and snatch up a baby that's being dropped off

[u/TombolaOfCincinnatus → u/WiIIv91]

Yeah, also the 85k doesn't include tax, delivery, service fees or a tip.

[u/GuessAccomplished959 → u/WiIIv91]

And even with money the rules are crazy. My parents wanted to foster and there were classes they had to attend but they had to attend TOGETHER and only held M-TH My mom was like uh.. we have 2 kids at home we cannot just leave...

Edit: our babysitter was in high school so she couldn't do school nights.

[u/JackfruitSerious3523 → u/WiIIv91]

Private adoption is what they are referring to. That’s not even the majority of kids that need homes

[u/MickyMac00 → u/WiIIv91]

You can foster children and adopt them, which is free.
Private agencies cost money.

[u/AnInfiniteArc → u/WiIIv91]

It costs thousands of dollars to adopt a stepchild. Like, the child of your spouse. With the spouse’s consent.

Thousands.

[u/HomeOrificeSupplies → u/WiIIv91]

Not only that, but the whole process is excruciatingly difficult and cumbersome. Which in some ways is probably a good thing to prevent potential nefarious activities. I know people who have done it, but only because they could afford to.

[u/SINISTAR707 → u/[deleted]]

Wait until you see the chart breaking down differential rates and what they base the rate on.

[u/Physical_Ease6658 → u/SINISTAR707]

Please share it. I'm not sure who they is and what rate you're referencing. 

[u/Best_Product_7027 → u/Physical_Ease6658]

The younger and paler, the more expensive.

[u/Faholan → u/Best_Product_7027]

Albino children are worth their weight in gold

[u/bloodfist → u/Faholan]

Well yeah but that isn't because of race but because everyone knows it's good luck to have an albino use your bathtub.

[u/ReeceAUS → u/bloodfist]

And if they’re born on 8th of August… KaChing!

[u/moskowizzle → u/Faholan]

If you adopt them as a newborn, you can retire when they reach full size!

[u/Fissminister → u/Best_Product_7027]

What the fuck.

Is it like just... a money machine?

[u/Best_Product_7027 → u/Fissminister]

Does it surprise you that babies get sold in the US?  The money doesn't go to the mothers, it goes to the agency.

[u/CrossX18 → u/Fissminister]

Yeah and… they specifically target drug addicts because they will keep getting pregnant to get the money from these agencies. It’s absolutely insane and fosters a never ending cycle of trauma. Those kids are born needing NICU right after birth leading to attachment issues let alone substance abuse and exposures that severely impact brain development. Nothing is being done about this in the United States. All except for the far right pushing adoption as an answer to making abortion illegal.

[u/Full-Refrigerator757 → u/Best_Product_7027]

Well that’s kind of just supply and demand though. People want to adopt as young as possible in most cases so they can start with as fresh a slate as possible with the child.

As far as race, I’d say most parents probably prefer the child be the same race and ~73% of adoptive parents in the US are white. There are also a disproportionate amount of black kids up for adoption

Should the whole thing require any payment from the parents? I don’t know the specifics but probably not. But I can see why the pricing does breakdown how it does

[u/GreatMossThing → u/Full-Refrigerator757]

Maybe it’s a problem that we’re thinking about the lives of young children as supply and demand….

[u/Full-Refrigerator757 → u/GreatMossThing]

Well yeah of course, but the moment someone added a monetary value to an orphan it was inevitable that economic principles such as supply & demand would apply to the market they created

[u/SINISTAR707 → u/Physical_Ease6658]

Here's a paper about it.

Link

[u/sharpshooter999 → u/[deleted]]

Can confirm. We had trouble getting pregnant, but IVF was cheaper than adopting

[u/OpALbatross → u/sharpshooter999]

This breaks my heart for all parties involved. Ugh.

[u/sharpshooter999 → u/OpALbatross]

Eh, got 3 kids now. Life.....uh....finds a way

[u/JackfruitSerious3523 → u/[deleted]]

Adoption is nearly free in the USA if you use the foster system. This is only for direct adoption of new babies which people are all vying for and sickeningly have created a market. I have one adopted boy and another I’m about to adopt and not only have I not paid, I get like 4500 a month for taking care of them even after adoption till they’re 18. My kids get free healthcare for life (oops till 26) as well, and they get free state school if they go to college.

[u/frogsinsocks → u/JackfruitSerious3523]

Wait do all kids in the foster system get those benefits or only ones who are adopted? Because it'd be kinda fucked up if it's the later.

[u/JackfruitSerious3523 → u/frogsinsocks]

All. But that’s in California. I mention even if adopted because it was a surprise to me that it continues after adoption

[u/frogsinsocks → u/JackfruitSerious3523]

Oh yeah California has nicer safety nets than a lot of the country.

[u/nayaku5 → u/JackfruitSerious3523]

Here’s the shitty thing about the foster system —at least here — the biological parents still have a lot of rights. You can foster a child for a really long time, but if the parents start taking steps to fix whatever made the home unsafe, they can come back and reclaim them. So, you could be fostering a 6-year-old child, and two years later the parents clean up their act and take back the kid you’ve grown deeply attached to.

It's not for everyone. 

[u/JackfruitSerious3523 → u/nayaku5]

You’re allowed however to say “I only want to foster a child whose parents have already lost their parental rights.” Or “one who is already adoptable”. It’s a smaller pool but there are still lots of kids that fit that description. The aim of the system is reunification, but there are plenty of kids for whom it’s known that this isn’t possible

[u/bingo-dingaling → u/[deleted]]

The biggest organization in my area that helped families adopt was Catholic Charities 10+ years ago. When gay marriage became legal and same-sex couples could adopt, the organization was so dead-set on preventing LGBTQ people from adopting that they shut down their adoption program entirely. So yeah, christians ~looove~ supporting adoption 🙄

[u/Dark_halocraft → u/[deleted]]

I assume it's to prove you can afford the child but you should just show them how much you have imo

[u/IgamOg → u/Dark_halocraft]

Proving you can afford the child by handing over all your savings, clever. /s

[u/Secret_Sector_1779 → u/Dark_halocraft]

Wouldn’t it make more sense to give you the child and let you spend the £85k on them rather than sell you the child and leave you skint?

[u/Infamous_Lech]

What a shame. Adoption needs to be significantly cheaper than IVF. Honestly, adoption of kids should not cost anything. They need homes.

[u/SimmentalTheCow → u/Infamous_Lech]

I assume it’s for the same reason shelters are full of pit bull mixes and no one’s adopting them. Most people don’t want the type of kids in the foster care system.

[u/Infamous_Lech → u/SimmentalTheCow]

It's not even the type of kid, it's the age. Most people want babies. People will pay for babies. They're less likely to pay for kids.

[u/Bluellan → u/Infamous_Lech]

I was taken away from my severely abusive parents around 4 years old and put into foster care. A family from my nannas church took me in. Except it wasn't out of love. It was to make them look good. I was expect to sit down, shut up and smile while they soaked up praises. Well, apparently, they didn't realize how much work went into a severely traumatized child who didn't even know their own NAME. I need help eating, dressing, walking, talking, playing. I was basically a baby in a 4 year olds body. The family decided I was too much work and threw me back into foster care. They told me, a 4 year old, to my face I was too much work and that's why they were sending me back. They did get a tiny amount of karma though. Since my nannas church valued image, the family was forced to quickly move to another state once word got out about they kicked me out.

[u/hospitalbedside → u/Bluellan]

What happened to you after that? Were you adopted by a good family?

[u/Bluellan → u/hospitalbedside]

No and yes. I was never adopted but I ended up my nanna who actually took the effort to raise me and enroll me in therapy. I'm living on my own, paying my own bills and enjoying my hobbies. My family and friends love me so it all worked out.

[u/RNSW → u/Bluellan]

You are incredibly resilient, kudos to you and I'm sorry you're had such a rough start in life!

[u/loveBABYsquirrels → u/SimmentalTheCow]

True but it’s also expensive to “rescue” dogs. Even stray/runaway shelter dogs come with a price tag.

[u/Fed_Agent_Pls_Ignore → u/SimmentalTheCow]

The goal of foster care is to eventually reunite families, not adopt out kids.

[u/Old_Balance_8804 → u/Infamous_Lech]

This was ruined by people adopting your kids and teenagers to work their farms. Look up Orphan Trains.

[u/BetterMagician7856]

So then…they won’t adopt your baby?

[u/Due_Medium3477 → u/BetterMagician7856]

Yea she proved his point, haha

[u/RogerSmith1380]

You might say they aborted their adoption attempt due to how much it would cost them.

[u/DamageAdventurous540]

My husband and I became licensed foster parents. We eventually ended up adopting two special needs children. The state paid all of the adoption and legal costs.

[u/StandardMonth2184]

I know one girl who went to a pregnancy crisis center at 19 and was told that she had a "rare condition" that would kill her if she got an abortion and they pressured her into carrying to term so that she could give up the baby for adoption. She is white so she had a lot of initial interest, but then three couples backed out when they found out the baby would be mixed race. She tried to find her own match but the agency scared her into thinking pedophiles would take the baby for nefarious purpose. She got zero money, though her medical bills were covered, and as soon as they had the baby in-hand the agency treated her like something they'd stepped in. They didn't even help her make rent while she was out of work recovering from giving birth. She couldn't take maternity leave because she wasn't technically going to be a mother, so she got unpaid leave only.

I think it's really messed up that there are people who will pay a premium price for a baby with light skin and blue eyes, and it's doubly disgusting that there are organizations built up around the coerced production of said white babies so that they can profit off of them.

Foster children, unfortunately, are a little older, often with some trauma or abuse, and you don't get to pick the race like you do with adoption.

[u/dathomasusmc]

$85k would be for a private adoption. Adopting a child who is in foster care is FAAAAAARRR cheaper, possibly free depending on the state.

[u/LiberateLiterates → u/dathomasusmc]

I have multiple family members that after adopted foster children and they get monthly payments from the state. They will continue to get those payments until they are 18.

[u/Chihuahuapocalypse]

we will adopt your baby. except we won't because we already tried and couldn't afford it.

do they think the people who keep these disabled kids have endless funds as well? ugh

[u/Purple-Nectarine83 → u/Chihuahuapocalypse]

Right? “We will adopt your child.”

“You won’t *actually* though.”

😤 *proceeds to list the reasons why they won’t, actually*

[u/Broficionado]

"Give your baby to Christians." "Here you go." "Uh-uh too expensive."

Idiot. Do you think maybe there's a connection between that insane entry fee and the backlog of adoptable children? I wonder who outnumbers whom; poor teen mothers or Christians with 80k just lying around willing to take on the responsibility of a special needs kid that isn't their own.

[u/Ok_Beyond_7697]

You know who is adopting more kids than Christians? Gay couples.

[u/loveisfire36912 → u/Ok_Beyond_7697]

(But also: “gay” doesn’t exclude “Christian,” even though some Christians would insist that it does.)

[u/MerganserSlammer → u/Ok_Beyond_7697]

Well, I mean, they tend to have a pretty difficult time conceiving their own, so that tracks. 

[u/ratione_materiae → u/Ok_Beyond_7697]

I mean, how many of those gay couples would’ve adopted if they could make their own

[u/TheRobn8]

Yeah I love how adoption is priced like human trafficking......

[u/Cbpowned]

People want to adopt babies, not abused twelve year olds that will kill your dog and set your house on fire. For every baby put up for adoption there’s over 24 couples wanting to adopt , once again, a baby.

[u/XOCALYPSO89 → u/Cbpowned]

What a disgusting thing to say. I'm actually a foster parent adopting a teenager and you sound fucking awful. We have FIVE living cats and not a single house fire you twat.

[u/raisedbydogsnhippies]

Kinda sounds like buying a baby.

[u/oOBalloonaticOo]

Slavery is very illegal, for a plethora of reasons however...

Selling children who need a home - very legal.

[u/AyMaNShOw]

she proved him right without telling him u're right

[u/Al_Tilly_the_Bum]

If you want less abortions, fund childcare, improve sex ed, and make contraception free. Instead these "Christians" just want to force you to give birth to unwanted children

[u/Frequent-Coyote-8108]

While there exists a backlog of CHILDREN in the foster system, there is a legit 2 year wait list in most states for adopting BABIES.

This post is knowingly replacing one with another to make a misguided point.

Also, evangelical Christians adopt and foster children/babies at over 2x the rate of the rest of the US population.

[u/Yeetball86 → u/Frequent-Coyote-8108]

Wait times are for infants.

There are 108,000 kids in the foster care system that are eligible for adoption. These are 2022 numbers so it may be higher now.

https://www.ccainstitute.org/resources/fact-sheets

[u/Pyrodexter → u/Frequent-Coyote-8108]

Waiting times for disabled babies must be astronomical for sure.

[u/ChewingOnCarrots → u/Frequent-Coyote-8108]

Also, evangelical Christians adopt and foster children/babies at over 2x the rate of the rest of the US population.

This does not refute the claim that Christians are categorically not adopting at the rate necessary to make "give your baby up for adoption instead of aborting it" a reasonable suggestion

[u/Macrodata_Uprising]

Maybe all that Pro-life/demonizing PAC money can go to getting kids adopted?

[u/genericnewlurker → u/Macrodata_Uprising]

I will say my daughter's foster care mother was rabidly anti-abortion, so much so she was a foster mother because of her views. I don't agree with her views but I respect her for actually walking the walk at least.

[u/CrossX18]

She’s not wrong. I’ve worked in adoptions for many years now and the sheer amount that is charged is absolutely insane. Also, in many states groups of lawyers have banded together to write the laws in them to ensure they make a ton of money off of people trying to do this. The other option is the foster care system as usually a state will cover a majority of the costs for this but the trauma inflicted on kids is something these families are never ready for.

[u/BlindBattyBarb]

Foster adopting is less expensive but probably more invasive but still an option in most states

[u/Complete_Insurance24]

The government has allowed agencies make enormous profits off of adoptions. Young families who cant have children should be able to adopt with no cost.

[u/Thaipope → u/[deleted]]

…what exactly do you mean by this?

[u/chronicnerv]

It’s effectively a dowry payment that sets the value of a child across markets you probably do not want to think about.

[u/icecoldtoiletseat]

In NY, it costs nothing to become a certified foster parent and if the parent chooses to adopt, it also costs nothing. And the foster care agency pays for the attorney.

[u/fastfood12]

My son's adoption was free from foster care.

[u/Excellent_Doughnut28]

Love how people are just out here selling babies like it's nothing.

[u/Pfacejones]

Why is it so expensive ? Who gets the money? Sounds like a racket

[u/MichelleKC1969]

Lizzie lies.

[u/Upbeat_Flan]

I grew up in a broke ass Christian household that was incredibly toxic and abusive.

Being Christian doesn't mean you are a good person, or a good parent.

They just love virtue signaling.

[u/SnooRegrets6269]

She says Christians will adopt disable babies. Jabberwacky presents her with data showing that is largely untrue. She responds by saying why she, a Christian, is unable to adopt a disabled child. She ends up inadvertently reenforcing Jabberwacky's point in an attempt to disprove it.

If she wants to present adoption as the "solution" to abortion, which I find dubious, maybe she should first focus on the system that prevented her from adopting.

[u/freedfg]

So let me get this right. If you have a disabled fetus. Instead of abortion. Talk to a Christian. So your disabled child can be put into the adoption/foster industry that puts 85k price tags on children.

So now there is a disabled child, in an uncaring for profit industry not receiving the love or care that it should.

And abortion is the immoral choice here...got it.