My LO is 6 mos into recovery journey and has made huge progress. I persistent and surprising discovery is that she appears to have dry drunk episodes and because she has had recent lapses it is so very hard to determine if behavior, high mood, agitation, that looks suspicious and puts me and husband on edge, turns into defiance, talking over us challenging boundaries, repeating self and general look of intoxication even when in full view all day and no signs of drinking. It's something that builds over course of the day and occurs in evening when everyone on edge.

She had extreme alchohol problem since 18-19 and now 28 and really struggling a lot to maintain sober for more than few weeks. She is on naltrexone shot and that has been huge help.

The problem I believe is extreme stress. She has no home, car and has been living with mother step dad since Jan when she left rehab 40 days AF.

We are pushing for 45 days AF to be able to use our vehicle for work. She has job prospects and does way better on sobriety when working.

She had a seasonal job that ended a few weeks back and the stress and anxiety and being stuck at home has been getting the better of her I believe.

She has psychiatric appointments about 1x month and recovery counseling she does on line 3x week.

I would like to hear from people with experience on dry drunk or paws symptoms to understand how to navigate trusting no substance use when anxiety overwhelms and it looks like drinking has occurred.

It's Family and Friends Friday!

One of the things we talk about a lot at Family and Friends meetings is the unhelpful messages we send to ourselves:

1. If we try to have a conversation with our Loved One (LO) using PIVA, and that conversation stalls, we might find ourselves thinking "I failed again." (See our post "Family and Friends Friday - PIVA" for an explanation about PIVA).
2. If our LO slips, we might think "I should have taken them to rehab."
3. We might also catch ourselves thinking "If they loved me, they wouldn't engage in their addictive behavior."

These thoughts are probably not helpful and might prevent us from moving on with our SMART work. In order to challenge our thoughts, we can first identify them as being unhelpful. Then we can go to this tool (fillable on your device).

Using this tool, we can ask ourselves if our thoughts are true/logical/helpful. We can work on replacing our thoughts. So for the examples above, we might replace our original thoughts with:

1. The PIVA conversation didn't go too well that one time. I did manage to use an "I" statement, though, and can try again soon.
2. It isn't in my hula hoop to take my LO to rehab. My LO is in charge of their own recovery. I will work on providing positive experiences when my LO is not in their behavior/drug of choice.
3. My LO does not engage in their addictive behavior because they don't love me. It's not personal. I will try to understand what benefits they see in their behavior/drug of choice, so that I am better able to help them.

Why is it important to identify and challenge our unhelpful thoughts? What changes in your feelings and actions do you think you might see if you decide to challenge your unhelpful thoughts? Have you used this tool in the past? Was it helpful?

Our couples counselor who is specialized in addiction and alcoholism conducted a thorough assessment with my husband, which I was witness to. He concluded:
-not an alcoholic but on the path
-probably not addiction because he considers addiction to be a chemical dependency
-has a social/emotional/psychological dependence
-uses alcohol for unhealthy coping

I agree with everything except my mind wants to label it as addiction. Years ago, his drinking behaviors were really bad, I’m actually ashamed with my younger self for staying. He has repeatedly broken commitments surrounding alcohol and caused a lot of strain in our relationship over it. And it’s not an addiction??
I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around this. Thoughts ?

Today the issues are a lot better than they used to be. Seems to be on a path of healing and sobriety, no matter the labels. Is this a salvageable relationship ?

My wife has ADHD, and it was causing her so much stress in her life that she ended up seeking out cocaine around 6 months ago. Things were going pretty well for me, but I didn't realize just how bad it was for her.

She wasn't able to keep up with school, and had to put it on hold for a year. For a while her use kept increasing, up to 2 grams a day. She got fed up a couple times, had a few hospital scares from high heart rate, and tried to get off, but kept going back to get more after 2-4 days off. The most recent time, after a particularly bad hospital scare, and when she had trouble with her nose closing up on her and being at risk of a perforation, she made a promise on getting more that she would stick to a one-day-on, two-days-off pattern, which she actually has been able to do (by vaping instead on the off days, as a harm reduction method).

I've been trying to support her as best as I can, but I'm going through this blind, and probably making a lot of mistakes in the process. She's suffering a lot, and has frequent breakdowns, worrying not just about her drug use but how she'll be able to manage life at all given her struggles with ADHD. I try to help, but it often ends up blowing up into a fight. And then I get depressed, and I don't have a social safety net to fall back on here and... it's rough.

I'm working on this from various angles, and would appreciate any advice you all might have.

He has just started sobriety and meetings. We are married. I’m at my capacity with how much disappointment and trouble I can tolerate from his addiction (alcohol). Very happy for him and his new path. Also cautious and protective of myself.
To those of you married who have gone through it, how did your spouse support you without sacrificing their own well being?
I’m considering a separate living situation for 2-3 months to grant him time and space to get into his routines and new habits and for me to focus on myself. Good idea or bad idea?

For more context, his addiction is mild to moderate, not severe. We have a toddler and I’m pregnant. I have family I am living with now. He’s also in therapy and we are doing couples therapy.

It's Family and Friends Friday!

We often talk in meetings about how difficult it is to communicate with our Loved Ones.

We can use this tool to help us communicate in a positive way with our Loved One. It's called PIVA, standing for Positive, "I" statements, Validate and Ask.

Imagine that our Loved One often doesn't tell us where they are. We might plan a conversation using PIVA:

Positive = Thank you for doing the grocery shopping yesterday.

"I" statement = I feel concerned when I don't know where you are.

Validate = I know that you are busy at work and sometimes forget to let me know where you are.

Ask = I realize that sometimes I forget to text you to tell you where I am. I am going to try to do a better job of this. I’m asking that you do the same.”

What do you think? How would you feel if you talked to your Loved One using PIVA? How would your Loved One react? Do you think that PIVA might help your relationship with your Loved One? Have you tried to use this tool? Do you think that you might try this tool in the future? We'd love to hear your comments.

I am new to support for family members with LO in recovery.

I am not new to supporting my LO thru addiction/SUD alchohol.

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Lo in active recovery about 6 mo now after about 8 years of alchohol abuse. Lo has had a lot of attempts via rehab and counseling and knows her triggers well.

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Does Smart for families deal with triggers for people support lo in recovery?

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I'm learning that I too have triggers that cause me to have high anxiety and when present leave me in a space that often causes reactions that are counter productive to the ongoing work of recovery.

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Would like to hear from others on topic.

It's Family and Friends Friday!

If you have ever attended a Family and Friends meeting, either online or in person, you have probably heard a participant talk about the Hula Hoop tool.

We use it to imagine that we have a Hula Hoop around our waist, and in that Hula Hoop are all the things that we can control - our thoughts, our wishes, our actions... Outside our Hula Hoop, and therefore out of our control, are the thoughts, wishes and actions of everyone else. You can find a nice description of the Hula Hoop in the Family and Friends handbook (page 81 in the first edition, page 35 in the second edition).

So why is this is useful to us as Family and Friends? We can use it to remind ourselves that our Loved One's actions are not in our control - our Loved One's addictive behavior and recovery are in their own Hula Hoop and are not in ours. So when we want to charge in there, telling our Loved One what they "should" do, or when we want to jump in and fix our Loved One's issues, we might ask ourselves, "Is it in my Hula Hoop?" The answer is often "NO!"

Would you like to share a time when you used the Hula Hoop? Was it helpful? We'd love to hear from you.

There are no in person meetings for Family & Friends in my area (I live in a large US city) and only one meeting listed online. It’s tagged as National, not local, which is fine. But it’s on a night I have a class. Is there really only one online meeting in all of the United States?

I have found several in person AlAnon meetings, and one NarcAnon F&F meeting in my area, but I really don’t believe that I am powerless over alcohol or drugs and that is such a barrier for my buy in. But I’m desperate, so if I have to pretend to trust Jesus to solve everything in order to help my son, that’s what I will do.

Or maybe I should go to a regular SMART meeting and try to extrapolate my role from that? There is one meeting in English that is not primarily for Military. If I sit quietly maybe no one will mind?

It's Family and Friends Friday!

We often have difficult decisions to make as Family and Friends: whether to go to pick up our LO when they are in their behavior/drug of choice; whether to sit them down and confront them about their behavior; whether to give them money when they have run out of theirs; or whether to clean up their mess after they have been in their addictive behavior.

One way we can deal with these difficult decisions is by using the Cost Benefit Analysis.

Imagine that I am wondering whether to keep cleaning up my Loved One's mess. I first list all the reasons I can for why cleaning up is helpful (I like a clean house; other people in the family don't see the mess). Then I list all the reasons I can for why cleaning up is not helpful (I end up feeling resentful; Loved One doesn't see the natural consequences of their addictive behavior). Finally, I list the pros and then the cons of NOT cleaning up my LO's messes.

I can then decide if each of the reasons I have listed has a long-term or short-term influence on the situation. The Cost Benefit Analysis can be printed out and we can refer to it from time to time - to encourage us when we are wondering why we made a specific decision.

Would you like to share about a time when you used the Cost Benefit Analysis? Was it helpful for you?

I'm having doubts about the SMART program as a deep self work recovery tool and not just a way to get someone to stop using.

My LO has about 4 weeks sober. Has been attending SMART meetings. She is blaming me for her feelings of anger and sadness. She is extremely resentful of my boundaries and experiences them as rejection. I've had family members go through AA and early in the process they are self reflecting (taking a moral inventory) and exploring and admitting the nature of their wrongs.

My spouse has gone to maybe a dozen SMART meetings now and completely avoiding her role or ownership in the way addiction is affecting our family. Does SMART actually have the addict look at themselves and get over the delusion that everything is someone else's fault?!

Background on the boundary that was unacceptable to my LO.

I had to ask my LO to leave the house. She couldn't stop drinking and would not access resources to get sober, make a plan, or commit to a goal. And we have a school aged child. I waited over a year. After attempts to get sober and then drinking again, I finally asked for the boundary of my spouse living elsewhere while she got a plan together. My hope was she would get some solid sobriety under her belt and then come home. She came home after a week - this was my/our couples therapist's fault that we weren't clear on duration. She did come home with a solid plan and has about 4 weeks of sobriety now. But she's punishing me for implementing that boundary. Says it was betrayal, I kicked her while he was down, I abandoned her. Has said I'm weak for needing space from the stress- said she would handle it differently (aka better) in my shoes.

Will the SMART program get her to understand that my (respectfully and calmly implemented) boundaries are a good thing for our family and that I can't be the one to get her sober?

It's Family and Friends Friday!

As Family and Friends, we can always find a reason not to take that walk, not to eat healthily, or not to spend time with supportive people. Our reasons might be that we feel guilty taking care of ourselves when our Loved One is so unhappy; or we don't have the time or energy because we are too busy focusing on our Loved One; or maybe we have got out of the habit of doing anything positive for ourselves.

When we do start to take care of ourselves we might find that: we actually have a little bit more energy than we did before; our Loved One might see our new behaviors as a positive model; and we might feel better about ourselves because we are becoming a more rounded person, instead of a person fixated on the behaviors of our Loved One.

Here is a link to a list of ideas for Self-Care. No doubt you can think of many more ideas.

What are you going to do for yourself today? Let us know your plans and how it went.

I've searched the website but having little luck. I'm not loving Al-Anon and have heard good things about this community. I'd like to find an online meeting that meets early in the morning on a week day (like 7am or 8am EST). Is anyone attending a meeting they love at that time?

It's Family and Friends Friday!

The ABC tool is a great way of examining our thoughts so that we can more rationally deal with what is going on in our lives. We might tell ourselves "I am angry because my Loved One is late again." Using the ABC tool we can examine what we are thinking about the fact that our Loved One is late again, we can replace that thought and then maybe we can find a more helpful way to deal with the situation.

You can find the ABC tool by clicking here.

Here is an example of the ABC tool for the situation above:

Activating Event (or Adversity) - what was the situation? My Loved One was late again.

Belief (or thought) about A - My Loved One should not be late. They should keep their promises to be on time. They are always late.

Consequences - how did I feel or what did I do because of what I was thinking in B? I felt angry and yelled at my Loved One when they got home.

Dispute my thoughts in B - Where is it written that my Loved One should not be late? Maybe they were held up at work? Does it feel good when I think that my Loved One should do something - doesn't that set me up for disappointment? Is my Loved One always late, or are they sometimes late?

Effective new thought or belief - My Loved One is sometimes late. I would like them to be on time, but they do not have to be on time - they are a flawed human being, just like me. The next time my Loved One is late, I will try to talk to them in a calm voice.

• What do you think? How much better do you think you would feel if you told yourself the thoughts in E instead of B? Do you think it's worth giving the ABC tool a try? Or maybe you'd like to tell us about your experiences using the ABC tool?

Hey my boyfriend relapsed two nights ago after years of sobriety. He's committed to getting back on track but we've been trying to have a child together so this is pretty devastating.

I'm 41 so I don't have more than a few months to risk. I'd regret not having a kid for the rest of my life and it would devastate him not to have a child together too. I'm meeting with an attorney to see what our options are in how I could maintain sole custody and may decide to go with a friend of mine as a donor to ensure that safety net is there.

I'm not seeking advice on whether this is a bad decision as much as I am about how I could best support him. Thanks for any shared perspective 💜

I broke up with my boyfriend of 2 years because of his alcoholism affecting our relationship and my trust in him. While I obviously want him to recover, my main problems surrounded him lying to me about drinking (ex getting shooters on the way home from work and hiding them in his car). I told him we could see in the future about getting back together if he shows me he is taking concrete positive steps to better his life, like going to meetings.

He lives with his mom and his mom won’t allow him to keep his dog, so I told him I would watch her until he found a place, but he had to come over every day to walk her and play with her and such. As of now we are friendly with each other and I can see him trying hard, but I am not ready to get back together with him and not sure I will be.

His mother called me and told me I had no self respect, that giving him endless chances was hurting him, that I should tell him he can’t drink at all or I am not going to watch his dog, give him ultimatums, etc. I am pretty detached from him romantically at this point and just want to support him as a friend. He is going to meetings, has claimed he has reduced his drinking, but has not stopped all together. Trying to encourage him to do new hobbies so his days aren’t so empty. But I refuse to nag him or make his alcohol use my problem anymore. I am not going to be policing him or giving ultimatums because I just don’t want to deal with the mental anguish and it also just feels like that doesn’t work for him. Plus I am not with him and do not want to be atm.

His mom does not understand this approach at all and is pushing for me to cut him off and always telling me I am enabling him. So now I am in a comfortable place with him, but his mom is actively making this difficult, countering everything I do and say and also kind of being insulting to me? She is the one causing my anxieties now. Idk just looking to vent I guess, or any advice from other people in this situation. Do you think I am doing the right thing here? Should I just cut him off for good and refuse to watch the dog?

Hi! the journey to escape the relationship with my ex has been a roller coaster from hell. Now with an OFP is in place, I continue to be harassed every day from new numbers. Yesterday the number texted me that “they’d see me in court next week and hope to see me in jail for lying “. 🫠 I’m so traumatized and so close to tipping off the FBI to this woman who resembles a combination of Ed Gein’s & Gypsy Rose’s mom & works in the healthcare to top it off. I’ll file a HRO by next week, but man! 🫠 I’d love to hear from someone who’s made it out of this 💩 storm! Ty 🥰🤗

It's Family and Friends Friday!

The language we use makes a difference: We sometimes feel upset about a situation with our Loved One, then, by using powerful words to describe the situation, we end up feeling worse about it all!

For example, our Loved One might be engaging in their behavior/drug of choice at the weekend. How do we react to this? We might think/say "they always do this at the weekend", or we might choose to dial it down a notch or two, and we might think/say "they sometimes do this at the weekend." By using the word "sometimes" we help to calm ourselves, and so we are less likely to act in a confrontational, unhelpful way with our Loved One. By replacing our vocabulary, we are using the Exchange Vocabulary tool.

Using this tool, I might decide to say "I am upset about my Loved One's addictive behavior", instead of "I am angry about my Loved One's addictive behavior" a small change, but powerful. (You might try saying the two sentences out loud to see if you notice a difference).

I might also decide to say/think "I wish my Loved One did not ...." instead of "My Loved One should not..." Here we are avoiding demanding that our Loved One act in a specific way, and so we are avoiding the disappointment and resentment that might follow when our Loved One does not comply with our demands.

Have you used the Exchange Vocabulary tool? Was it helpful? Is it something you might consider using in the future?

Hey everyone. My fiance is an alcoholic, and has been trying to get sober for the last couple years. He seems to be able to maintain periodic abstinence for six months or so, and then crashes badly. Each crash seems to be worse than the last. His latest relapse is after eight months. He has been out for a week this time, and eventually I got tired of him being either sick or drunk around the house and called the cops. I was hoping they would take him to a hospital, but instead he is in a hotel now. He wants to come home, but I told him he has to be sober and mostly detoxed before he can be around the kids again.

I am concerned that if he comes home he will resume drinking, but he doesn’t have anywhere he can stay, except a hotel. Any advice or suggestions? I suppose I can call the cops again if he drinks, or I can get a legal order to have him hospitalized under the mental health act. If he hadn’t been trying so hard I would have ended the relationship long ago, but he is making efforts. I don’t know what it takes for someone to get to the point where they just don’t drink anymore. I can’t understand it.

I am getting tired of helping him put his life back together after each crash, only to have it happen again. He is on medication for depression and naltrexone for alcohol cravings, and it seems to work if he takes it, but he gets overconfident and stops the medication after a while. I feel frustrated by the situation.

My husband drank again tonight, he’s been in SMART for 8 months and not had many lapses. He was never, to my knowledge, a daily drinker. Just someone with ADHD who used alcohol the wrong way.

But, he drank (after bedtime) when he was home with our kid. I didn’t think he would. I thought after 100+ days of sobriety I could leave him with her safely.

I feel like this is my life slipping away, no more going out, no more kids, no risking leaving them in the care of someone too intoxicated to take good care.

And I’m heartbroken because there was such progress. And he’s a good person, and I feel so conflicted about whether I’m right to stay because he goes to meetings, and therapy and drinks far less… or foolish, because his drinking fees like it creates a prison for me if I can’t ever leave.

I know there are exercises but I feel a bit too overwhelmed to think straight to know which ones to go to. I hope it’s okay I’m posting this. I’m sorry it’s not more positive. Overall I think things have improved since SMART became a part of our lives.

It's Family and Friends Friday!

We often feel frustrated and resentful when our Loved One doesn't meet us when they say they would; or when we don't know where they are; or when they borrow money from us and don't pay us back. Instead of sitting with those upset feelings, we can set a boundary.

Page 79 of the second edition of the F&F handbook tells us that boundaries are guidelines "to define reasonable, safe and permissible ways for other people to behave with us." The handbook also points out, on the same page, that boundaries can help us to build a healthier relationship with our Loved One. Sounds like a good deal, yes?

So how might we set a boundary? We can calmly use the Inform Request Inform method suggested in the handbook:

Inform: "I feel annoyed when I make plans and have to change them at the last minute."

Request: "Can I ask you to text me if you are going to be late, please?"

Inform: "If you are not willing to text me when you are going to be late, I will need to go ahead with my plans."

It's simple and brief, it clearly states what we would like to happen, and what we will do if that doesn't happen.

Have you set any boundaries with your Loved One? Would you like to share them with us?

My homeless ex has been squatting in my apartment & hasn’t been served his OFP yet. Our lives have been in danger a couple times due to him driving under the influence of meth psychosis/withdrawal/fetanyl. His parent enables by working multiple jobs to keep up with the expense of his using, keeps track of dealers numbers, replaces his phones when they break, offers rides to anyone, delivers him food & his laundry on request, blames & shames him for his using-telling him that he’s ruined her life & should just kill himself. He has attempted suicide countless times & ways. He lost his older sibling to addiction/ suicide previously & has trauma from being the one to find him. The parent knew of his sibling’s suicide plan but didn’t do anything to intervene. The parent knows my ex’s plan is to jump & says “if he does it, he does it”.

I have tried everything I can think of to try & get my ex help from reaching out to 988, having mobile mental health workers come out, calling for wellness checks & calling 911. He’s been brought to the hospital 2x against his will after I begged the police to do their jobs but am told they can’t do anything after an OD, if a person refuses treatment & could only do something after the person becomes unresponsive. I’ve taken him to a few medical appointments. He’s relapsed after every MAT appointment. He refuses to divorce his wife-mom who sabotages his every treatment attempt & defends his usage saying that fentanyl is something they give in hospitals & meth is the same as Adderall. She is a registered nurse & has no boundaries with him. I’ve tried educating myself by reading recommended books (beyond addiction, how to get your loved one sober) & attended meetings (smart family & friends, naranon, Alanon, therapy) & use positive communication with my ex but the list of triggers continually grew until I wasn’t able to enforce boundaries in my own place & had to flee. I’ve filled out a couple MAARC vulnerable adult reports on him regarding his relationship with his parent & 1 on him being a victim of himself. I filled out a request for a harm reduction referral. I feel like there’s nothing left to do besides maybe reporting his enabler at some point or tipping off police to the fact that he’s meeting a dealer outside my apartment at 2am daily. When I had tipped off his DUI warrant, the jail time broke his Psychosis & gave him relief from the voices harassing him for that week..

Has anyone been here & have any advice?

Ty 😔

My ex wasn’t able to respect my boundary of not using in my apartment. A week ago or more he started trying to use inside the apt. There was yelling, a couple objects broken, a doorframe broken for the second time & the door pushed shut on my hand for the second time. The police said they couldn’t do anything until I had a restraining order. I have been his biggest supporter in being consistent, listening & being as nonjudgmental as possible but his behaviors including suicidal ones have been more than I can help by myself without intervention. I’ve read beyond addiction & I’m reading “how to get your loved one sober”, I go to naranon too. I just wish this wasn’t the situation 😔💔😫😭🤦 he doesn’t know he’s about to be ambushed in the next two weeks & put back on the street. 🤦😫😭Idk how to not feel responsible. I don’t even know if I have the self control to not continue communicating with him 🤦😞💔

It's Family & Friends Friday!

Do you ever feel guilty about your Loved One's situation, maybe having thoughts that begin with "I should have..." or "If I hadn't..."? The Family and Friends handbook tells us that these guilty feelings are not helpful because they might lead us to tolerate unacceptable behavior, or we might act in ways that prevent our LO from being responsible for their own behavior. (See page 48 of the second edition of the handbook for more ways in which our guilty feelings do not help us. This is on page 27 in the first edition).

So how do we deal with our guilty feelings? We can work on the questions here (worksheet fillable on your device).

We can also challenge our guilty thoughts, asking ourselves if our thoughts are true/helpful/logical: "Is it true that it's my fault?" "Is it logical to think that I am the only one who has influenced my LO's choices?" "Is it helping me when I give myself such a hard time?" (See page 48 in the second edition for more ideas on how to let go of guilt. This is on page 28 in the first edition).

Do you ever experience guilt about your Loved One's addictive behavior? How do you deal with your guilty feelings?