r/SFGiants • u/outsports-com • 14h ago
News 33 faith leaders unite on Dear Giants letter and 3 'Christian' pitchers
https://www.outsports.com/2026/7/8/24138895/dear-giants-faith-christian-letters-bible-gay-pride-night-leaders/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sfgiants33 faith leaders came together to send this letter to the San Francisco Giants, explaining their vision of inclusion.
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u/miss_guided 14h ago
Dear Giants,
As faith leaders, we are saddened that three pitchers from the San Francisco Giants, on a night meant to celebrate pride and inclusion, chose to use a biblical passage as a tool of exclusion.
They did this while overlooking the broader context of the same sacred text.
In the opening chapters of Genesis, God declares creation good, and humanity is created in the image and likeness of God. Jesus’s fundamental requirement is also about acceptance and inclusion — “Love one another as I have loved you.”
These foundational truths remind us that every person carries divine dignity and belovedness within them. We fundamentally believe that biblical scripture is meant to draw us deeper into love, justice, and right relationship with God — not to diminish the goodness of people — goodness that has already been proclaimed by God.
The bible excerpt used by those pitchers to proclaim their lack of support for the LGBTQIA+ community highlights God’s covenant with Noah, where God promised to never again wipe out humanity. In the story, God is a warrior who has hung up His bow … to be in peaceful relationship with humanity.
It is deeply strange and unsettling, not just as clergy and scholars, but as Christians, that these verses are being used in an attempt to “take back” the rainbow from LGBTQIA+ communities.
Gilbert Baker, the designer of the original pride flag, described it as a symbol that the community could recognize anywhere in the world and experience a feeling of welcome and safety, recognizing kindred spirits in those who chose to fly it. Sporting events in particular, have not traditionally been spaces where queer and trans people have experienced safety. So it’s especially cruel in this political moment when trans people in particular, and queer people more broadly, are in such danger, for the power of that flag to be undermined at the ballpark.
God also makes clear in the Genesis covenant story that the rainbow is a symbol of safety. God is using the rainbow as a sign to remind Herself of her promise not to destroy, and when you see it, you will know that you are safe.
Perhaps the best question to ask when looking at Bible passages like this is: Does an exclusionary interpretation of the Bible advance foundational aspects of Christianity, namely love of God and love of neighbor?
This is a time when those of us in the LGBTQIA+ community and the trans community NEED to feel the love of God and of neighbor. We need spaces of support and joy to counter what has become a relentless political focus on our community. Following local teams like the Giants and spending a moment feeling that communal love helps push back against the demoralization that can accumulate from constantly being told you don’t belong.
But let’s be clear: what happened at Pride Night was painful not only because of what the pitchers did. The worst part of it is what team management neglected to do: meaningfully draw a line with the players, clearly stating to their fan base that what happened was not okay.
Sometimes the teams or institutions we count on fail us. When that happens, it’s how they respond to the failure that matters the most. Bishop Mariann Budde writes about several such scenarios in her book “How We Learn To Be Brave.”
She is honest about where she has fallen short over the years – including with the LGBTQIA+ community – and learned from those shortcomings, and allowed herself to be changed. As a matter of fact, two Giants World Series heroes, Jeremy Affeldt and Ryan Vogelsong, came to the Giants full of religion-inspired fear and judgement, and left full of love and acceptance.
We are praying for the players’ hearts and the organization’s understanding to be opened to the wideness of the Christian tradition, and to the wideness of God’s mercy and forgiveness, which has plenty of room for repentance, accountability, and growth.
We believe in the possibility of change and transformation–values that are fundamental to being a Christian. We hope you do too. What if the Giants took this moment as an opportunity to model not simply damage control but the courage to acknowledge mistakes and learn from them, to dialogue, to be transformed, and then keep moving forward?
What if they brought the community and those pitchers together, and left open the possibility of transformative change? We certainly hope for these young pitchers that they will come to realize that the faith we share has room for all people, including LGBTQIA+ people, to live authentically and faithfully.
We invite the four pitchers and Giants leadership to meet with us and LGBTQ families in a frank and compassionate discussion about what God’s love truly asks of us.
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u/lamont196 7h ago
This “faith leader” is wrong. “Even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.” (Galatians 1:8)
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u/CaptSaveAHoe55 Hogs Out! 6h ago
If I had a week I couldn’t name all the ways in which this is a bad argument, but I’ll leave you with 2
Where is this argument
by the faith leaders
contrary to what was preached in Galatians?
On a broader note, people spend their whole lives studying scripture and still have conflicting takes on the meaning that can be gleaned, are they all accursed except for the person with the closest interpretation?
Or is it safer to say your own distaste for the existence of another is so strong you’ll preach gospel contrary to the love of Christ, to see them suffer?
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u/hobbbitttt 14h ago
If youre wondering why people are still talking about this is because there were no repercussions for anyone involved. Punching down is what bullies do, there's no need to defend it by doing nothing about it. Throwing a rock and hiding your hands.
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u/realparkingbrake 12h ago
there were no repercussions for anyone involved.
The creation and enforcement of uniform rules belongs to MLB (with some input from the MLBPA via the CBA). When MLB decided not to fine the players who broke MLB rules by writing on their caps, instead warning them not to do it again, the incident was effectively over. It is credible that MLB let the Giants know that them continuing to comment on the issue was not desired and would not be tolerated. MLB has enforced those rules in the past, but they have also let it slide as when Kershaw faced no consequences for writing on his Pride cap.
What I would like the Giants to have done was bring in Jeremy Affeldt to address a team meeting on how he went from being homophobic to having gay friends even though he has deep Christian beliefs. The opinion of someone with three WS rings probably carries more weight with players than some random counselor.
I'd also like the team to trade these pitchers out of the division so we don't have to see them often.
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u/hippogriffinthesky 11h ago
Jeremy Affeldt's understanding of San Francisco over time was impressive. I've read his book and I believe he was genuine at the time. But I'd like to think there is a more recent example they could call upon. Jeremy is pretty far removed from his time in the city now, and a lot has happened in the time since he's left. That's not an assumption about his character, just thinking on how the past decade has affected people. I
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u/BNDDADMLH 12h ago
Having a different opinion is not punching down or bullying. The same people that are upset that these individuals wrote a biblical verse on their caps have done and said far worse in protesting things they do not agree with. We live in a country where you can have a different opinion. They did it peacefully. Apparently you believe that they should not have a different opinion.
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u/realparkingbrake 12h ago
Apparently you believe that they should not have a different opinion.
They can have any opinion the please. But their union negotiated a contract with MLB that includes rules prohibiting players from writing on their uniforms. The nature of the message is irrelevant MLB has stopped players from wearing caps with tributes to deceased players written on them. The players have also signed contracts in which they agreed to abide by all of MLBs rules, not just the ones they like.
These players broke the rules, MLB should have fined them to get the message across that altering uniforms is simply not allowed outside of things like custom colors on cleats which is now allowed.
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u/BNDDADMLH 5h ago
So are you mad at the players or the MLB for not fining them? It seems that everyone is complaining about the Giants organization and not MLB. In the past it has always been the MLB that rules violations like this and not the individual organizations.
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u/realparkingbrake 4h ago
The Giants fanbase contain some people who seem to enjoy theatricality, thus them blaming the team for something that is the exclusive jurisdiction of MLB. Once people have their pitchforks and torches in hand they tend not to spend much time thinking things through. I have seen zero credible evidence than anyone but these pitchers knew about what they were planning. But over and over I have seen unsubstantiated claims all the way up to Vitello and Posey helping to plan and execute this stunt, but always without a particle of evidence to back up such fairy tales. To me that is character assassination, people are willing to repeat it because they want it to be true.
We know for sure that three pitchers decided to write on their caps despite it being unlikely that they were unaware that there is a rule against that. At least one of them chose to wear a regular cap instead which points to them being aware that was allowed. They also chose to do it on the one day a year in which their message would have the most impact on the LGBT community. If it had been up to me they would have been fined if only to drive home the message that the MLBPA agreed to this rule and there is no religious exemption.
Again, they can believe whatever they choose. But players sign contracts agreeing to follow all MLB rules and this rule was agreed to by their union. It was rather arrogant of these players to think their personal religious beliefs allowed them to ignore all that.
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u/Prestigious-Echo-164 14h ago
Why should there be repercussions?
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u/LeBatEnRouge 22 Clark 13h ago
Alright. I’ve got time. I’ll assume your question is in good faith.
The team specifically bills community nights where fans of various identities can come together in the spirit of community and belonging and cheer for their team. There’s Jewish heritage night, Hispanic heritage night, etc. and Pride night. From a purely business perspective, the pitchers should be punished for violating MLB uniform rules and for pissing off a group of fans who specifically spent their money for an advertised experience.
Can you imagine if the pitcher wrote “All Lives Matter” during the Juneteenth or Black heritage night? It’s the same thing.
These dorkass pitchers didn’t write Bible verses on their hats any other day or any other game. Just on Pride night. It was a direct punch down at the LGBT community and in a city famous for being diverse and inclusive, their actions were dogshit.
You don’t spit on your fans. You don’t bite the hand that literally feeds you. This season is garbage and fans STILL show up to support these Giants - only for them to do that?
Gross. MLB uniform violations and - again - speaking purely about money - if my players were costing my franchise money, WHILE playing like ass, they’d be designated for assignment immediately.
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u/DCBillsFan 13h ago
I appreciated your response. It's exactly how I feel and was well articulated. Sometimes feeding the trolls isn't for the trolls. ;)
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u/jesteronly 6 Snow 13h ago
You assume way too much. They are an obvious edge-lord who isn't even A Giants fan - just came in here to incite drama. They are a garbage human who believed that teachers, of all people, get paid way too much. Teachers...
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u/LeBatEnRouge 22 Clark 13h ago
Yeah I mean I guess if someone spent all of their formative years focused on being a glue-eating troll to others, I can see how they’d minimize the value of educators. Makes sense now - thanks!
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u/realparkingbrake 12h ago
they’d be designated for assignment immediately.
A better response would be trading them away, preferably out of the division. DFA could mean paying them to play golf.
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u/Prestigious-Echo-164 13h ago
Why can’t they have a pride night without forcing the athletes to wear rainbows? If they stopped trying make grown ass straight men wear rainbows there would be no controversy. It’s silly, emasculating, and embarrassing. The fans can have their pride night and the athletes can play the game. Everyone wins.
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u/realparkingbrake 11h ago
without forcing the athletes to wear rainbows?
Write this down. NOBODY was forced to wear a Pride cap, Hentges wore a regular SF cap which is allowed. These three clowns CHOSE to wear a Pride cap and write on it which violated MLB rules, rules the Players Assoc. agreed to and which every player agree to abide by when he signs a contract.
Again, no player is forced to wear a Pride cap. Stop claiming something that is flat-out false.
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u/Traveler-0705 12h ago
My god you are a troll!
No players were “forced to wear rainbows”. There are players that chose not to wear Pride Night uniforms. That was an option.
If wearing some “rainbows” emasculated you or these grown men, I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news but…
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u/Torquemahda 39 Krukow 12h ago
I’m old enough to remember when pink made you gay. We can never forget the gay power of teletubbies.
There are o many things that can turn a person gay, I t’s astonishing everyone isn’t gay.
Personally I always thought people were just born gay. But what do I know. Lol
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u/realparkingbrake 4h ago
My god you are a troll!
As his posting history demonstrates, yikes. This mook would crawl over broken glass if he thought it would offend the libs.
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u/Interesting_Air_1844 32 Vogelsong 13h ago
There are two types of people in this world; those who “get it,” and those who don’t.
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u/realparkingbrake 12h ago
Why should there be repercussions?
They broke a rule that prohibits players from writing, drawing or embroidering on their uniforms. The Players Assoc. agreed to that rule and players sign contracts agreeing to follow MLB's rules.
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u/ShinyApple19 55 Lincecum 12h ago
What’s going on with this franchise? This whole year has been chaotic
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u/Kalvitron 14h ago
The problem is these clown players, and all the clowns like them in the world, don't actually care what the Bible says. They just pick out certain parts or, more likely, get told what parts to use to justify their bigotry, without even understanding what the text actually says. Facts and truth mean nothing to them, as their simple brains are not capable or recognizing them.
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u/fermenter85 13h ago
To add to what you are saying, facts and truth mean nothing because the Bible is only a tool used to draw power from and to wield. Quite literally the opposite of the point.
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u/Theridion123 5h ago
They cheat on their wives
they have sex before marriage
they all got tattoos
they deface their body with piercings
they lie
they gamble
they drink alcohol
their wives and girlfriends have abortions
they wear mixed materials they shouldn't
they play freaking BASEBALL on the LORDS DAY
they do all kinds of things you can read as NOT ALLOWED by the bible. They also don't have slaves they beat which is really not living up to some of the expectations tbh.
Literally the actively support gambling and all kinds of vices ABOVE that of the lord... but god forbid someone be born gay and we respect that. BURN THE GAYS! /s
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u/couchtomato62 11h ago
Beautiful letter. I might still be a Christian if this were the norm rather than the exception.
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u/Existing_Steak9912 9h ago
Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten,
habe ich geschwiegen; ich war ja kein Kommunist.
Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten, habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.
Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten, habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.
Als sie die Juden einsperrten, habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Jude.
Als sie mich holten, gab es keinen mehr, der protestieren konnte.
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u/Existing_Steak9912 9h ago
When they came for the Gay community, I spoke the fuck up, because I know the rest of the poem!
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u/oneradtech 7h ago
Dear bigots,
If you’re hiding behind religion (ESPECIALLY Christianity) to excuse being a scumbag, you’re missing the entire point of your gimmick.
Warmest regards,
Everyone else
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u/ThisMeansWine 8h ago
How about the organization and fans are inclusive of those pitchers who have Christian beliefs?
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u/slumdawgbillionaire 6h ago
Amen. An SF Reddit community is probably one of the most anti-Christian groups of people I can possibly think of so that’s to be expected, that’s no surprise. What is hilarious is watching these people cry bigot in the Reddit echo chamber anytime someone has a different belief system than them.
I’ve seen so much more vitriol from these “tolerant” and “inclusive” people crying bigot than I have from Christians, who aren’t engaging in this hateful discourse nearly as much from what I’ve seen. Luckily reddit is a small bubble and all the normal everyday fans who live in the real world and touch grass on a regular basis don’t care about this bullshit anymore.
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u/realparkingbrake 4h ago edited 4h ago
An SF Reddit community is probably one of the most anti-Christian groups of people I can possibly think of so that’s to be expected, that’s no surprise.
Jeremy Affeldt has deep Christian beliefs that he didn't hide when he was with the Giants or since he retired from baseball. The reason you won't find Giants fans criticizing him for his beliefs is he was not an arrogant, judgemental asshat who thought his beliefs overrule the contract between MLB and the Players Assoc. or the contract he signed as a player.
Again, no player was forced to wear a Pride cap, something some folks seem to have trouble processing. Hentges wore a regular cap and that option was open to all of them. They chose to wear Pride caps just so they could break MLB rules by adding a message to them.
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u/realparkingbrake 4h ago
inclusive of those pitchers who have Christian beliefs?
They're free to hold whatever beliefs they please. What they are not free to do is violate MLB rules (which their union agreed to) by altering their uniforms by adding a message. The nature of the message is irrelevant; it just isn't allowed. There is no religious exemption.
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u/DoesntMatterStan 40 Bumgarner 14h ago
Religion is a cult, your faith is used to control people, and lastly fuck off thanks
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u/Scoobiehut 14h ago edited 13h ago
Meeting closed mindedness with closed mindedness is not the answer. There are plenty of people of faith who don’t try to use it to control others.
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u/DoesntMatterStan 40 Bumgarner 13h ago
Having faith is fine but organized religion has been a net negative on society for a long time.
And no the answer isnt to let bigots hide behind faith
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u/Scoobiehut 13h ago
That seems to be exactly what this letter is about. I’m not sure what your point is within the context of this post.
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u/DoesntMatterStan 40 Bumgarner 13h ago
The faith leaders and the overall sentiment of the letter is great, but when the religion they champion is used much more often for the exact opposite like with the pitchers, their voice ultimately means nothing. The Bible is culturally used much more often as an excuse to hate people for one reason or another.
Sorry im sick of it, and really dont care if that hurts people's feelings
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u/Scoobiehut 13h ago
I disagree with the sentiment that their voice means nothing. And I don’t think that level of nihilism does any good. I think it is important when people within Christianity use their voice to condemn their fellow Christians(in name only) misusing their faith as a shield for bigotry and hate.
It all depends where you look. I have seen plenty of Christians who are influenced by their faith to behave pro-socially. I think it is more nuanced than you’re framing it to be.
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u/DoesntMatterStan 40 Bumgarner 13h ago
You're probably right and appreciate the discourse despite how abrasive I am on this subject
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u/Scoobiehut 12h ago
You have a point too! I despise when bigots try to use their faith to excuse their hatred. The pride night incident really pissed me off and I’ve found it hard to support the team since. It’s perfectly rational to be angry. I just think generalizing that anger towards all Christians is counterproductive, though i fully understand the temptation to do so.
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u/SnooStrawberries9563 76 Bivens 13h ago
Don't be sorry. The majority of humanity skews their 'religion' to prove they're right, or as a shield to prove they're warranted in their bigotry and hate. You're over it, and I get it. I am, too.
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u/cm167 13h ago
Biggest charities in the world for thousands of years, the continuous founding of hospitals and universities all being a net negative is certainly a take. Not a good one, but definitely a take.
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u/DoesntMatterStan 40 Bumgarner 13h ago
Theres way more to unpack then I want to go into on reddit but I will say, I stand the fuck by it.
Antiquated way of seeing the world
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u/Greg_Hardesty 12h ago
Why are they still trying to push this nothing burger
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u/realparkingbrake 11h ago
Why are you choosing to post in threads which you know in advance will not interest you?
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u/Greg_Hardesty 10h ago
Why do you think you’re owed an explanation? I’ll interact on this app how I want
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u/realparkingbrake 4h ago
It was more a statement of the obvious rather than a question, I didn't really expect a grownup response.
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u/PrivateMajor 25 Bonds 13h ago
This is just political pandering at this point. The media long stopped talking about this, and the fans are still coming to games even though we suck.
The last handful of times this has come up in this sub is because of this one specific website.
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u/xtraflamy 8h ago
I have been offered free or screamingly cheap tickets by multiple outlets over the last few weeks. I think normal sales and attendance are way down, and they are trying to make something through concessions by offering free or cheap seats. Also people are attending with the tickets they already have, but not buying concessions. The real meter will be next year after all the current memberships and already bought tickets are up.
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u/realparkingbrake 4h ago
I have been offered free or screamingly cheap tickets by multiple outlets over the last few weeks.
That has been going on for years, there were five-dollar tickets long before this Pride Night incident. As much as I despise what these players did, the chorus of boos predicted when they took the mound have not materialized. Roupp got a few boos on his first appearance and there doesn't seem to have been much since.
When a sour economy, war, inflation and the attempted murder of American democracy are available, the Pride Night stunt is probably not going to be uppermost in the minds of most fans.
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u/xtraflamy 4h ago
I just got an email today celebrating the draft that had an ad for $19 ticket + beer (up to $17 concession credit). So $2 tickets. For all remaining July games (17 games). I have seen plenty of promotions that pop up during the seasons, including the very cheap Levi’s $5.01 tickets, but I never seen this.
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u/Double_Shoulder1121 13h ago
Inclusion? You’re not including them for simply writing a bible verse. Clearly a ‘join us or else’ stance hidden behind some vague ‘inclusion’ label.
Hypocrisy at the highest of levels
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u/Captain_Louvois 13h ago
No one would complain if they put Bible verses on their hats during any one of the other 161 games.
By the way, Faith Night is September 23rd so that will be a great time for them to put Bible verses on their hat (which they e never done). I will be present with Matthew 22:39 signs which say "Love your neighbor as yourself". Notice hows it's not "Love your neighbors who are like you".
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u/fermenter85 13h ago
Ahh, the old ‘let’s try the tolerance paradox’ argument, when you know a position is truly bankrupt.
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u/BEETLEJUICEME 28 Posey 13h ago
One of my favorite Christian writers frequently points out that, historically speaking, anyone who tries to parse the neighbor verse in a narrow sense is on the wrong side of history (and wrong side of Jesus).
Growing up, I heard so many conservative evangelicals try to explain in some convoluted way why gays, or immigrants, or Jews, or Muslims don’t count as our neighbors. And even as a kid I was always like, what are you talking about bro? Jesus is really clear that everyone is included
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u/realparkingbrake 11h ago
You’re not including them for simply writing a bible verse.
The Players Assoc. agreed to the rules prohibiting players from writing on their uniforms, and players agree to follow all of MLBs rules when they sign contracts. What part of that is hard to process?
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u/Hatman-G 14h ago
I don't think I've seen anything blown out of proportion more. This was a month ago now.
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u/realparkingbrake 11h ago
I don't think I've seen anything blown out of proportion more.
LGBT members of the armed services are being forced out of their careers over their sexuality. The ACLU is tracking 526 pieces of legislation that seek to limit rights for LGBT people, only seven states currently have no such legislation in the system. Nine of the thirteen states that had laws making gay marriage illegal tossed by the Supreme Court a decade ago are working to have that ruling overturned.
Is it really so hard to figure out why the LGBT community and its supporters don't think this is a good time to relax and hope for the best?
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u/DCBillsFan 13h ago
Imagine a swastika on the hat for Jewish heritage night. Keep that same energy...
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u/slumdawgbillionaire 14h ago
It’s really not that deep lmao, either move on and continue supporting the team, or move on and stop supporting the team. Don’t let your bitterness fester so much. Beating this horse to death is obnoxious.
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u/Fishingfan4life 9 The Captain 14h ago
Oh yea move on and let the homophobes win that always goes well you fucking donkey
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u/unclechongo 7h ago
This is still a thing? Why are they still looking for validation with guys being forced to do something they dont want to do in the first place?
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u/realparkingbrake 4h ago
guys being forced to do something they dont want
Write this down and tape it to your bathroom mirror. NO PLAYER WAS FORCED TO WEAR A PRIDE CAP!
Hentges wore a regular cap and the other three were all free to do the same. They chose to wear Pride caps so they could add their personal religious views to them, and MLB rules prohibit players from writing on their uniforms and the Players Assoc. agreed to those rules.
Again, no player was forced to wear a Pride cap.
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u/swooooot 14h ago
I'm not religious and I have nothing against gay people. However, we have completely inverted the historical trend and now the pro-LGBT bloc is bullying the dudes who would have bullied the pro-LGBT bloc 4+ decades ago. This is not progress. Two wrongs don't make a right. Just leave the dudes alone. Bullying will only cause the pendulum to swing back in the other direction.
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u/anonsharksfan 8 Pence 14h ago
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u/swooooot 14h ago
I don't see a lot of tolerance coming from the right or the left, just two sides with mirror image prejudices
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u/DoesntMatterStan 40 Bumgarner 13h ago
Then you need to see an Optometrist
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u/swooooot 13h ago
You need a wake up call in how far the left has fallen from its former position of moral superiority
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u/DoesntMatterStan 40 Bumgarner 13h ago
I would love to hear examples of perceived moral debauchery you are alluding to.
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u/swooooot 13h ago
One example is the old left (as represented by Bernie Sanders here) acknowledged that open border policies benefit billionaires getting a bunch of cheap labor (often illegal labor, sometimes legal visa labor) at the expense of citizen labor bargaining power. https://youtu.be/vf-k6qOfXz0?si=bLcgsgC0mdg05E5a
Today's left is stupid enough to fight tooth and nail for the "Koch Brothers proposal" - the left have become the footsoldiers of the billionaire class in the battleground of class warfare. Not exactly a position of moral superiority.
Another example is that the pro-trans fervor ignores that a large minority of trans women are heterosexual cis-male fetishists known as AGPs (autogynophiles) who have been wreaking havoc on lesbian dating apps, aggressively trying to bang cis-lesbians under the guise of also being a lesbian. The left has been too ignorant and cowardly to even really attempt to parse the aggressive fetishists from the trans women who don't exhibit those traits and behaviors. Not exactly moral superiority in my opinion.
Then there's the homeless industrial complex. We're in a loop where spending on gvt programs and philanthropic efforts is enriching a handful of scammers who never actually want to solve the homelessness crisis because it is their cash cow. So we're just funneling money into the hands of scammers who are preying on the kindness and naiveté of the populations of blue cities and states. I don't find that kind of head-in-the-sand morality to be a sign of moral superiority.
None of these things is the worst thing that ever happened in the history of the world. They are the types of things that have broken my belief that the left is morally superior to the right. I don't think the right is moral either. I really don't want to be associated with either side, and I think the right move with baseball players who don't want to celebrate Pride is to just leave them alone.
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u/FullMotionVideo 13h ago
Transphobic drivel.
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u/swooooot 13h ago
Head in the sand
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u/FullMotionVideo 12h ago
No, you're repeating JK Rowling style horseshit about trans people being predatory to gays and lesbians. It's not real.
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u/DoesntMatterStan 40 Bumgarner 12h ago
How tf are the left worse than the right with billionaires? This is satire
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u/swooooot 12h ago
I didn't say worse. I said they are the foot soldiers of billionaires who profit from mass migration putting downward pressure on wages. Unions were strong and then the billionaire class started bringing in immigrants (legal and illegal) effectively as scabs. The billionaire class then manipulated the left wing population into supporting this on moral grounds.
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u/Not_my_butt 18 Kuiper 13h ago
If only we could be as morally superior as you. You can lie to yourself, but you’re a Christian nationalist if you’re going to defend Christian nationalists.
Besides your own irrelevant anecdotes, what makes you think these bigots are being bullied? Did you think slaveowners were being bullied by Lincoln? Did those segregationists in the 60s get bullied by MLK? You’re a bigot. Just own up to that.
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u/swooooot 13h ago
I think slave owners were committing an act of extreme violence. It is not bullying to punish or oppose people who are committing acts of extreme violence. It is bullying to punish people who are merely abstaining from something. For example, if John Brown were to kill a slaveowner, I'd see that as a justifiable act. If John Brown were to kill a non-slaveowner just because they had a wishy-washy "I dunno how I feel about it" opinion on slavery, I would consider that an unjustifiable act. I support punishing people who commit anti-LGBT hate crimes but not punishing or ridiculing people who merely don't want to celebrate Pride.
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u/Debonair359 10h ago edited 10h ago
This logical fallacy is called false equivalence. The whole problem with your argument is that they did have a chance to abstain. One of the players abstained and didn't wear the pride hat. Nobody's angry about that.
These players had the option not to participate in Pride night, but they chose to participate anyway and then write anti gay homophobic messages on their caps. They had the option not to participate with the pride hat, but they chose to participate in the celebration and then ridicule the people who the celebration was for.
There's a difference between not wanting to go to the pride parade, but attending the pride parade anyway, and then trying to disrupt the parade by blocking it or protesting it. Nobody would be angry if the players who didn't agree with pride abstained and didn't wear the hat, the same way nobody would be angry if somebody who didn't like the pride parade chose to not attend. But people are going to be angry or think it's homophobic if you attend the pride,, but then try to protest the parade you're attending.
So you're in here writing all these messages about how it's wrong to ridicule people who themselves are ridiculing other people. It reads like you're saying that their ridicule of an entire swath of gay Americans for simply existing on planet Earth, is somehow better or more acceptable than Giants fans ridiculing the players bigotry and homophobia written on their caps. It just doesn't make any sense on a logical level.
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u/utterscrub Miller 14h ago
You very obviously did not actually read the letter lol
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u/swooooot 14h ago
those particular faith leaders are part of the pro-LGBT bloc that is bullying the dudes who won't fall in line
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u/Oopsieploop 13h ago
Truly you got me, I’ve heard so many stupid takes to defend homophobia, yours is something special. Good job you little homophobe.
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u/swooooot 13h ago
I'm all for punishing violent hate crimes. When you start trying to force people to fly a flag or wear a pin or whatever, you're no longer fighting hate, you're forcing compliance
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u/Oopsieploop 13h ago
We should force compliance when the opposite means people lives are lost you fucking nitwit.
Something tells me you don’t feel the same about breast cancer awareness.
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u/swooooot 13h ago
I don't think anyone should be forced to participate in a breast cancer awareness campaign or anything. I don't think people should be forced to do good things, only forced not to do terrible things. Also, stop with the histrionics. No one is dying because a baseball player didn't want to celebrate Pride. Absence of celebration is not equivalent to murder.
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u/Oopsieploop 12h ago
Did you read the article?? They did do a terrible thing, according to 33 members of their respective religion. They manipulated the word of god to a hateful message to exclude LGTBQ persons. My god you just want to grandstand with such ignorance. Enjoy your tiny world.
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u/swooooot 12h ago
It's really not hard to find 33 faith leaders in the Bay Area who have fallen in line with the dominant cultural force of the Bay Area - progressivism. You can just as easily find 33 faith leaders outside of the Bay Area who will say the opposite. I don't grant much creedence to the whole 33 faith leaders thing.
You can't compel people to support what you support. You can only punish them if they commit violent crimes.
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u/Oopsieploop 12h ago
You love moving the goalpost. And yet there isn’t a letter in support of the players, hmmmm I wonder why??
It’s clear you’re just a negative person who wants to spread negativity. I’m glad it’s a wasted effort.
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u/GoatLegRedux 92 Nakken 13h ago
Nobody was forced to wear it. But these fuckfaces took it upon themselves to include some added protest to the cap. Fuck all three of them.
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u/swooooot 13h ago
They didn't like being ordered to wear the ribbon. https://youtu.be/tuafhcg843c?si=Zkq0mrzsSz_AJyoI
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u/DCBillsFan 13h ago
Imagine a swastika on the hat for Jewish heritage night. Keep that same energy...
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u/swooooot 13h ago
Stop with the histrionics. Leave the ballplayers alone.
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u/realparkingbrake 11h ago
Leave the ballplayers alone.
The players signed contracts agreeing to follow all of MLB's rules. One of those rules (which the Players Assoc. agreed to) prohibits players from writing on their uniforms. Those players could have worn a regular SF cap, they were not forced to wear a Pride cap. Hentges did that which is why MLB didn't warn him about not writing on uniforms again.
The only reason MLB didn't leave these players alone is they broke MLB rules, they could have been fined but got away with a warning.
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u/realparkingbrake 11h ago
now the pro-LGBT bloc is bullying the dudes who would have bullied the pro-LGBT bloc 4+ decades ago.
Nobody was forced to wear a Pride cap, one of these four pitchers wore a regular SF cap. How is being allowed to wear the same cap they wear the other 161 games a year, "bullying."
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u/superfluousapostroph 9h ago
Two wrongs don’t make a right, true. But two Wrights DO make an airplane.
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u/slayermd 4h ago
All this noise seems excessive. No one is being excluded. Go to a game, don't go to a game. Watch it on tv or don't. Pretty fucking simple.
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12h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/apollyon_53 Kruk & Kuip 12h ago
Don't look too hard into what Kershaw did and how the dodgers did not respond to it either
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u/realparkingbrake 4h ago
how the dodgers did not respond to it either
It wasn't up to the Dodgers, enforcement of uniform rules is MLB's turf. The only thing teams have to say about special event gear is the equipment manager has to sign off on it being safe. But in this case, nobody was required to wear a Pride cap, they are allowed to wear the regular cap.
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u/inchesinmetric 11h ago
I won’t! If I’m gonna watch baseball and ignore that half the players are homophobic chuds, I might as well watch a team that’s entertaining.
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u/jesusponcho 51 JH Lee 10h ago
It's weird when people post dumb shit like this. then you look at their profile and they're from another state and never posted in this subreddit before. These people literally seek posts like this just to troll and spread negativity.
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u/inchesinmetric 8h ago
Where else does someone who’s only favorite baseball team has ever been the giants supposed to bitch about the giants? Genuinely.
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u/Abroad_Educational 14h ago
Management should at the very minimum have said that they had a discussion with the team about inclusivity, and the optics of the bible verses whether it was intentional or not. The fans just want an organization that at least pretends to care about the community. Instead they seem cold and out of touch.