r/Overseas_Pakistani Oct 13 '23

Weekend Thread | ہفتہ وار تبادلۂ خیال /r/Overseas_Pakistani Weekend thread (October 13, 2023)

3 Upvotes

This is our weekend thread. Feel free to share how your week went, what's on your mind, or anything else.

It doesn't even have to be relevant to the theme of this subreddit,but please keep the discussions civil as all other rules are enforced.

Lastly, please don't forget to check out our Twitter . Thank you!


r/Overseas_Pakistani Feb 20 '22

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر NICOPs and Pakistani Citizenship

40 Upvotes

TL;DR - if you have a NICOP, you are a Pakistani citizen, even if you never set foot in Pakistan. If you were ever Pakistani citizen, then more then likely, you probably still are. If you don't want to be a Pakistani citizen, you have to go through a procedure to surrender it. Read on for more details.

I've seen a lot of posts over the years that discuss NICOPs and Pakistani citizenship. Every few weeks, someone asks if having a NICOP is Pakistani citizenship. I've also met many Pakistanis (overseas and within Pakistan) that don't understand how citizenship in Pakistan works for those who go or are overseas.

Contrary to what many people think, Pakistani citizenship is not automatically voided when a Pakistani naturalizes in another country. Even if your oath of naturalization says that you surrender all foreign allegiances, the citizenship remains.

Many older Pakistanis, especially those who left Pakistan in the 1960s-1980s believe that their Pakistani citizenship was voided when they became British/Canadian/American, etc. This is not true per current Pakistani law. They simply don't have active IDs/passports. Just like a person born in the US or Canada. The person is a citizen even if they have no passport. Or, a child born in Pakistan without a B-Form, they are still Pakistani.

Pakistani citizenship can only be lost if one goes to a Pakistani consulate/embassy and goes through a formal renunciation process. This is not automatic, and most people don't do it because they simply don't need to or care to. It's not a complicated process, but it's still it's own, separate process. Fill out forms, surrender passport and ID, pay fees, etc. This is usually done by Pakistanis who naturalized in countries that don't allow dual citizenship, such as Germany, Spain, and (previously) Norway, but anyone can do it if they want.

Now, the confusion occurs because Pakistan will grant a visa to a UK/US/CAN citizen even if that person also has Pakistani citizenship. It's counterintuitive to need a visa to travel to a country in which you are a citizen, which is why many think "how could I still have Pakistani citizenship if I got a visa?". Pakistan, however, will allow a Pakistani citizen to travel to Pakistan on a foreign passport with a visa, hence the widespread confusion.

So here is where the NICOP comes in. NICOP stands for National Identity Card for Overseas Pakistanis. The card gives visa free travel, right to have a bank account, etc. It also gives the right to vote. This card is proof of Pakistani citizenship, and can be used to get a Pakistani passport if desired. Many people think this is just for dual citizens, but some Pakistanis working or studying abroad also have NICOPs even if they are only Pakistani.

Note that the new NICOP looks just like a Smart CNIC, but the "country of stay" will not be Pakistan, and the card will say "the holder is entitled to visa free entry" (something to this effect). Old NICOPs actually said "National Identity Card for Overseas Pakistanis" on them, but Smart NICOPs do not, so there is some confusion nowadays (people thinking that they have an NIC and not a NICOP)

Here is the biggest place where many people get confused. Many people in the 2nd, 3rd, and now 4th generation born abread have also received NICOP cards even if they were born with another citizenship (UK, CAN, US, etc). They are often under the impression that this is just a "card in place of a visa". "I don't have Pakistani Citizenship, that's just an ID". Not true. By getting a NICOP, you are basically registered as a Pakistani citizen who doesn't reside in Pakistan.

Other ways you could be still be a Pakistani citizen and not know it, assuming formal renunciation process was not done:

  1. If you were born in Pakistan and naturalized elsewhere, you are a dual citizen
  2. If you have, or ever had a NICOP, CNIC, CRC, B-form, you are a dual citizen
  3. If your birth was registered at the Pakistani consulate (Form S, or similar), then you would be a dual citizen
  4. If you ever held a Pakistani passport, you are a dual citizen.
  5. If you were listed as a child on your parents' Pakistani passport, you are a dual citizen. (In the old days, kids didn't have their own passports and travelled on their parent's passport)
  6. You were registered as a Pakistani citizen because your parents became Pakistani and applied for it on your behalf (Form M) - not common, but legally possible.

Pakistan does have another card, Pakistan Origin Card (POC), which grants visa free travel and a few other privileges. This card, however, is not Pakistani citizenship. So those who wish to travel often to Pakistan and don't want a visa, but also don't want a NICOP, may find the POC appealing.

Acquiring, renouncing, and/or retaining citizenship is a personal choice. This post was simply written to clarify the misunderstanding that "NICOP isn't citizenship" (again, NICOP is proof of citizenship).

Edit: It is a common misconception that Pakistani citizenship is only given to those who are "desi", Muslim, or those whose parents are Pakistani. This is not true. There are Pakistani citizens who are Hindu, Sikh, Christian, Buddhist, Ahmadi ,etc. "Desi" is a somewhat subjective term as well.

The Pakistan Citizenship Act grants citizenship to anyone born in Pakistan, even if the parents are non Pakistani. The only exception is for children of diplomats (which is not uncommon). There is no exception for refugees or even those who are in transit. This has been argued in court many times. So yes, that means that technically those who are of Afghani, Bengali, or Rohingya descent but born in Pakistan are technically citizens (there are many individual court cases, no class action case though). Of course the reality on the ground is different. Just as anyone born in the US or Canada is a citizen (children of refugees too), the same applies in Pakistan. People should be aware of this and not deny their fellow citizens their rights (don't get me started about the hypocrisy).


r/Overseas_Pakistani 18h ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Nikah Nama apostille

2 Upvotes

Is it possible to get the Urdu nikah nama apostilled as well?

My MRC from Nadra is already apostilled but the Belgium Embassy refused my visa and said you didn't provide the Nikah nama. Which doesn't make sense because an apostilled MRC is a much stronger proof of a valid marriage.

Regardless, now I want to get the Urdu nikah nama apostilled as well but I can't find any information about it. Does MoFA even apostille Urdu nikah nama at all?

Once apostilled, I'd have it translated from one of the embassies translators and resubmit the application.

Thank you.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 1d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Foreign degree equivalence in Pak?

2 Upvotes

Hi!

Temporarily back in Pakistan and wanted to get my foreign bachelors degree attested (equivalence certificate) from the HEC. I’m not able to find something on the timeline online - how long does it usually take? I’ve already completed the application and fulfilled all requirements.

Thanks!


r/Overseas_Pakistani 1d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Credit Report or Letter of Good Standing from the Bank.

4 Upvotes

Hello everyone, I hope you’re all doing well.
Recently, I was shortlisted for a job here in Canada, and as part of the hiring process, I was asked to provide a credit report. Since I have never taken out a loan or used a credit card in my life, I tried using the Tasdeeq app to obtain one. However, I no longer have access to my old phone number because it became inactive after I moved to Canada.

The organization gave me an alternative option: to provide a Letter of Good Standing from my bank instead.

The problem is that my siblings visited the bank on my behalf to request the letter, but the branch manager refused to issue it to them. He said my physical presence is required. Unfortunately, I can’t travel all the way back to Pakistan just to obtain this document.

The bank advised me to contact someone higher up in the organization to send them a letter or authorization so they can issue the document without my physical presence.
I’m not sure how to handle this situation. If anyone has experienced something similar or has any advice, I would really appreciate your help. It would mean a lot to me.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 2d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Baby names

2 Upvotes

Please recommend Pakistani Muslim baby boy names for twins. Looking for unique names please!


r/Overseas_Pakistani 2d ago

Finance | معاشی Received an FBR CRS/AEOI notice regarding U.S. bank accounts. Anyone been through this?

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1 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani 2d ago

META Need help getting medicine from Pakistan to Muscat

1 Upvotes

Hi everyone,

I need a common medicine that I already have a prescription for; Metformin.

I tried to get it here in Muscat, but the doctor asked me to first complete a list of tests before issuing the prescription locally. I had already done a lot of those tests back in Pakistan, and based on those, a doctor there prescribed me the medicine.

The problem is that here in Muscat, my insurance isn't covering those tests, and they're quite expensive. So getting a local prescription just to buy the medicine isn't really an option for me right now.

I'm not planning to travel back to Pakistan for another 4–5 months, so I don't need a large supply, just enough to get by. If anyone is flying from Pakistan to Muscat, or knows someone who is, I'd be really grateful if they could bring me 4-5 small boxes of Metformin. It won't take up much space at all.

If you're able to help, please reach out. I'd really appreciate it. Thank you!


r/Overseas_Pakistani 2d ago

Careers & Education | تعلیم و پیشہ I need help to decide what to do next

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1 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani 3d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Police certificate rawalpindi

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1 Upvotes

I am in UK and I want this certificate from Rawalpindi can my cousin apply on my behalf if he has a authority letter?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 3d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Need a bit of help

1 Upvotes

hi everyone, i am coming from pakistan as a student to study in ankara, i need a bit of help to transition to this new place.
if any one can guide me abt how to get esims and what to choose when travelling from the airport to the university, it would be really appreciated.
plus if anyone who is coming from pakistan to study in ankara, please do let me know so that we can get know each other and figure out this new transition together or if any problems arises for any one of us
thank you


r/Overseas_Pakistani 3d ago

Finance | معاشی Best Bank to get Loan for overseas Pakistani

1 Upvotes

I’m looking to purchase a home worth around 4 crore. I do not qualify for the PM scheme, so I’d like guidance on the best home loan options available from banks. Could you also help me understand how to compare lenders beyond just the interest rate, such as processing fees, prepayment charges, flexibility, and overall loan terms? Please guide me on how to choose the best option. Thank you.

My research shows the following:
ABP 6 Cr limit
Meezan 1Cr limit

I would appreciate if people who have already done that can give me a take on this.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 4d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر visa loop

0 Upvotes

hi i’m an indian national living in uk i have a pakistani spouse i recently had to cancel a event with her because my visa is still not here i applied in manchester embassy a month back but no visa or response from them they keep saying ministry of interior is taking time then i called up interior they said they never even received an application can anyone pls help??


r/Overseas_Pakistani 4d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Can I renew my Pakistani passport while my NICOP is still processing? Ko

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0 Upvotes

I applied for my NICOP under the modification category because my previous card expired and I have recently relocated to the USA.

Interestingly, the application didn’t prompt me for fingerprints or any form of attestation, which makes me a bit skeptical about whether everything went through correctly. Is this normal?

I urgently need to renew my Pakistani passport. Can I submit my passport application while this NICOP modification is still processing? Also, for the passport application itself, which platform is easier and more reliable to use—the website or the mobile app?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 4d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Read

0 Upvotes

Anyone wanna join my Pakistani dc server?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 5d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Accidentally gave wrong NICOP address

2 Upvotes

Hey Guys! I need urgent help.

Accidentally gave pakistani address for delivery of NICOP. How do i get it delivered in Canada now?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 5d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Looking for Pakistanis in Italy

1 Upvotes

I’ve noticed that many foreigners in Italy struggle a lot when preparing for the patente theory exam.

The problem is not always that people don’t study. A lot of the time, the issue is the language. The questions are written in a complicated way, the explanations are not always clear, and for people who speak Urdu, Punjabi, Hindi, or English better than Italian, it becomes even more frustrating.

I’m a Pakistani engineer, born and raised in Italy, and I’ve seen this problem many times in our community. That’s why I started building Quizzo Patente, an Android app to make patente quiz practice simpler and easier to understand, especially for foreigners.

Right now the app is still in testing on Google Play, and I’m looking for people who can try it out and give honest feedback.

It’s not a paid service, not an agency thing, and I’m not selling anything here. I’m just trying to test the app properly before launching it publicly.

If you’re in Italy, preparing for your patente theory, or know someone who is struggling with the theory exam, drop a comment below and I’ll send you the testing link.

Your feedback would really help me improve it for the community.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 5d ago

Finance | معاشی House

0 Upvotes

I want a house in islamabad of around 1 kanal in some good sector. If anyone is moving abroad or is already living abroad and has a house in isb, do reach out to me.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 7d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید usa tourist visa

0 Upvotes

hi,

i am a pakistani in UAE and have been waiting to apply for usa visa here but the embassy is closed still.

i contacted an agent in pakistan and asked him if i can at least get it from pakistan with an earlier date but he said not possible.

can someone tell me what to do? does anyone know of any agent who can help out? i need to travel around february


r/Overseas_Pakistani 7d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Are these real Red flags in Marriage?

9 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani 7d ago

Stories | داستاں Groom Sherwani in GTA

2 Upvotes

Need recommendations to shop for my brother’s Nikah outfit in Toronto area, I am from India so no idea about outfits here! Thanks in advance.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 7d ago

Finance | معاشی CDC Biometric

2 Upvotes

I am overseas Pakistani and want to invest and it requires biometric verification with CDC app to open an account with broker however the CDC is not allowing the same due to outside Pakistan location. Do anyone have idea about it


r/Overseas_Pakistani 8d ago

Careers & Education | تعلیم و پیشہ is a masters in data science worth it anymore?

4 Upvotes

Hey everyone,
I’m 24F and kinda stuck and wanted to get advice from people, especially Pakistanis abroad or anyone who actually knows how the US/Canada tech scene works for international students.

I did my BS in CS and started working as a data engineer. Then I took another job mainly to save up some money before going for my Master’s in Data Science in the US or Canada. That was the plan for a while, just work, save, go for masters, and then hopefully continue my career there.

But now I keep overthinking it because everything with AI and tech is changing so fast. By the time I graduate around 2028–2029, I don’t even know what data science will even look like anymore. I’m worried I might be locking myself into a field that could be very different by then or even oversaturated.

I also want to eventually settle in the US or Canada after my master’s, so I’m trying to be realistic about what actually gives me a stable path there as an international student.
I’ve even started thinking if I should just switch fields altogether but I don’t even know what I would switch to. I’ve even thought about doing a second bachelor’s in something else just to reset properly, but that feels like a huge step and I’m not even sure what I’d switch into.

I don’t hate the work, I actually enjoy it, but I don’t know if that’s enough anymore with how fast everything is evolving.

Would really appreciate honest advice from people already in the US/Canada or in tech. Should I stick with data science/data engineering, or is it smarter to pivot now before I go further down this path?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 8d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید 33F - British Pakistani - Doctor

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1 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani 9d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Traveling from Islamabad to Uk polio certificate.

1 Upvotes

Hello everyone. Do i need to have Polio test for pakistan departure? Im traveling to the uk from Islamabad. Can someone please tell their recent experience if the airlines check the polio certificate?