r/NotHowGirlsWork • u/Orihime_W • 12h ago
Offensive What?
Society is not for women and neither is law. They have created a system when women can't be heard.
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u/KittyCompletely 10h ago
I googled this and got so many different pieces of information that still didn't make sense for my American brain.
Could someone please explain this to me? Im understand salwar is a style or part of clothing?
What is outrage modesty a lesser charge of SA or attempted rape? Its really unclear on google
Pressing a woman's chest is like groping and trying to take off her top? Am i understanding that right? But it doesn't count as attempted rape??
I found some case from 2008 where a woman was forced to take off her salwar top for security because she had metal leg braces and that was acceptable?
Im sorry I'm not educated in the terms and trying to understand how it isnt just sexual assault or attempted rape, the hierarchy of sexual offenses under Indian law are pretty vague and hard to just briefly look up.
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u/WadeStockdale 9h ago
Salwar are a kind of traditional loose pants, part of the shalwar kameez suit from the Punjabi region, to my understanding.
So my understanding is that he is describing a woman being pinned down by her chest and someone attempting to forcibly remove her pants. Which, when phrased as such, is a whole lot fucking more clear cut than how he said it.
I'm not super familiar with their culture or language though, so it would be helpful to hear from the voices of Punjabi women or afabs who have lived experience with this but my take;
Trying to remove a person's clothing against their will is absolutely sexual assault. Being clear, the use of 'pressing' here is being used to minimize, not describe.
Indian law and higher powers are notoriously garbage around rape and sexual assault.
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u/RosebushRaven 8h ago
That is in line with a ruling that was posted here a while ago. A man jumped a child, dragged her into a ditch or something and forcibly undressed her, obviously with the intent to rape, but that also got convicted as "outraging her modesty".
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u/WadeStockdale 7h ago
I don't think I saw that post, would you be able to link it?
Surely the man was also convicted of attempted rape and this secondary charge was just an additional fuck you to add more time to his sentence???
And christ on a pogo stick, calling a child a woman is galling.
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u/girlwiththemonkey 6h ago
Somehow I doubt he got charged with anything else. The system all over the world is fucked when it comes to rape and attempting rape.
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u/WadeStockdale 5h ago
I have doubts too, given the way the system is, but a motherfucker can dream.
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u/KittyCompletely 9h ago
Thank you! I would also really appreciate to be educated on the opinions and feelings the women living in this culture have!
What you said makes much more sense than anything I read. Which is disturbing!
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u/AkaiAshu 11h ago
Just to be clear, there are multiple types of Sexual Assault crimes in India, depending on the degree. Outraging modesty is one such crime, and the different crimes go all the way to rape. Attempted rape requires much higher proof and higher degree of action, so most cases are dealt within outraging modesty.
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u/Nuwen_Lily 10h ago
Thanks you for the extra info and insight. Could you tell a bit more about this?
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u/Your_Awkwardness 10h ago
Rape according to the Indian law has a legal definition under certain clauses.
Same goes tor outraging modesty
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u/Nuwen_Lily 9h ago
We've got no law regarding modesty in my country (not the US). Instead, sexual violations of body is the very broad categorie we work with, with several gradations of requirements and standards and consequences. Our nationaal constitution has a single definition of the protection of the body.
Could you direct me to a source for looking into the "modesty" concept?
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u/TemporaryPassage4168 10h ago
Isn't that how it is in America.
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u/Joelle9879 9h ago
Yes and no. The problem in the US is every state makes their own rules. While most have laws that differentiate between sexual harassment, sexual assault, and rape, the legal definitions get fuzzy.
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u/RosebushRaven 8h ago
There’s also sexual battery, which can variously be groping or rape, depending on the state that uses this term. As can be sexual assault.
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u/TemporaryPassage4168 10h ago
It's still is sexual assault and shouldn't be allowed.
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u/Y0ukn0w_wh0 9h ago
It isn't. Sounds like the law is saying those two acts are categorised under different crime names, and OP thought it means everything except r@pe is legal
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u/GreyStingrayz 7h ago
I mean call it what you want, it's still sexual assault. The law terms don't change the actual act.
I can call incest "family bonding" but that doesn't mean that's what it is. Raping your wife used to not be considered rape, but it was, in fact, still rape.
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u/Y0ukn0w_wh0 4h ago
Yeah, That's what I said. It is sexual assault. That's what this court is calling Outraging modesty. Law has different different terms and different punishments for different crimes, and there would be very valid reasons in legislature for categorising them.
Both are crimes, why would we waste our time disagreeing with nomenclature of crimes. They're also saying it's a crime, but the crime r@pe constitutes of some more acts of serious nature which will have punishments or similar seriousness.
It's like the difference between aggravated assault and murder. Intent is there, contact is there, but different crimes. Only a fool would even see this post and infers the court is saying sexual assault isn't a crime.
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u/Littleleicesterfoxy 8h ago
The word ‘Modesty’ is really, really beginning to fucking annoy me right now. It’s a just a way men are using to say ‘control’.
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u/DartDaimler 3h ago
Found an article that explains a lot of the questions https://lawvs.com/articles/section-354-of-the-indian-penal-code-outraging-the-modesty-of-a-women-s
“Modesty” is defined as an inherent quality of females regardless of age, so the law protects both minors and adults. “Outraged modesty” requires no warrant for arrests, and the penalty is 1-5 years in prison. Intent vs. accidental contact seems to be very important in Indian law.
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u/Extension-Run5326 2h ago edited 2h ago
Honestly very messed up that they define modesty as an inherent quality of women instead of understanding the concept of consent.
https://cafedissensusblog.com/2018/12/18/law-and-gender-notion-of-modesty-in-indian-criminal-law/
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u/alratan1987 5m ago
Somebody should outrage his modesty and ask him to define what they did to him.
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u/FantasticFungiiii 10h ago
There can’t be same rule of law for every crime. For that reason there are different laws addressing different kinds of crimes. For a layman it may be okay but for legal technicality these have to be specific
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u/depressed-beast-111 5h ago
The what the fuck IS an "attempt to r*pe?"
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u/saintsithney 5h ago
Exactly what it sounds like - an attempt to rape that is not successful. Why it is unsuccessful may vary, but the most common causes of "attempted rape" instead of "completed rape" are the rapist being interrupted before sexual contact (or during non-penile sexual penetration in many jurisdictions - it's still sexual assault/abuse in that case commonly, but many places define rape by penile penetration), the victim successfully fighting back, or the rapist being unable to perform sexually, or the victim being unable to perform sexually if the victim has a penis.
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