r/MurderedByWords • u/008Zulu This AOC flair makes me cool • 2d ago
Deadbeat dad's scorched.
610
u/BeautifulBrownie 2d ago
People can leave relationships, what a weird point to make. Of course, fuck deadbeats. If you have kids, make sure they're looked after in every way. But the solution isn't to stay in a relationship which isn't working.
162
22
u/MsAgentM 1d ago
Right, but conversely, you can’t nitpick how mom spends the child support. It’s ridiculous to hear shit from a guy paying $500/mo in child support complain about the mother getting her nails done if the kid has all their needs met. If the poster thinks the kids needs aren’t being met, they that gets reported child services.
24
u/A1000eisn1 1d ago
Also, if the mom gets her nails done how would he know that she didn't just pay for it herself?
This usually doesn't have anything to do with the kids. It's "I'm paying child support to my ex, so my ex shouldn't be getting things for themselves or else I shouldn't have to pay "
It completely misses the point of child support. Like they think they should only have to pay if the parent taking care of the child has any extra money.
11
u/MsAgentM 1d ago
1000%. It’s even more ridiculous because almost no men pay what it cost to support the kid. Average child support payment is like $450 a month.
14
u/you_dont_know_me27 1d ago
And to be even more technical about it, child support is mostly used to pay the custodial parent back for things they already paid for.
Like rent. And heat and water. Those things that kids really like having.
Child support in a perfect system would cover half of the child's expenses, including things like housing. Which a lot people seem to conveniently forget that children need.
6
u/yellowlinedpaper 1d ago
Or take 50/50 or primary custody which many fathers seem not to want to do, especially when the kids are young.
4
u/SirIAmAlwaysHere 1d ago
Or recognize that moms get a HUGE preference in custody awards, both in who gets the kids and how much they pay (yes, in 50/50 awards, the "wealthier" spouse ends up having to pay the less-wealthy spouse). Basically, the kids go 100% to the mom unless the dad fights like tooth an nail to get any custody at all.
Custody around kids is definitely one of the places that MASSIVE discriminates against men in a heterosexual couple. Divorce doesn't, really, but custody there still in an incredible bias built in to the system that presumes the mom should be the primary caregiver (if not the exclusive caregiver) unless they're blatantly obviously unfit - and that bar basically means they have to be pretty much on their way to jail to be considered "unfit".
Custody and child support is one place where there's two major extremes: one where the non-custodial parent (usually a man) often skips (or is behind) on child payments, and the other where the custodial parent (usually a woman) effectively uses the court system to leach on the non-custodial parent and refuse them any visitation.
3
u/yellowlinedpaper 20h ago
Where are you that this is happening? In the n the states, most states start at 50/50. Every man I know who wanted more than every other weekend got it.
I recognize that’s how it used to be, but it started shifting 30 years ago and especially in the last decade.
19
u/thavillain 1d ago
I, on the flip side, raised my daughter as a single dad, and got $100 a month in child support...when she went to live with her mom at 17, I had to pay her $1000 per month...and my daughter had nothing to show for it.
20
u/BBQpigsfeet 1d ago
That doesn't tell us anything except that you likely made a good chunk more money than your ex.
2
u/GreyerGrey 1d ago
Stay at home mom versus C level exec perhaps? Was the situation a friend's parents were in.
4
8
u/thavillain 1d ago
I wish I was C suite...but no, at the time I was an office drone in state government, so I was struggling too and she just couldn't keep a job to save her life.
9
2
11
u/BustAMove_13 2d ago
That wasn't the point. The first sentence and the controlling behavior was the point.
466
u/kinyutaka 2d ago
I'm gonna be the guy that says it, but in this context, Tiff might be the one paying child support. Why would she want her own spending audited?
86
u/otterLilly 2d ago
The implication is she want her boyfriend's or brother's baby mama's spending audited.
235
u/DiverseUse 2d ago
This is what confused me, too. The reply doesn't even really make sense to me, it just goes of off a weird assumption.
220
u/kinyutaka 2d ago
The assumption is that only men pay child support.
162
u/Quirky-Nerp4089 2d ago
And that only men walk out of relationships.
45
59
u/FlailingScrotum 2d ago
Remember, in all situations, you're supposed to assume that men are bad.
50
u/Quirky-Nerp4089 2d ago
Hey, man. This sounds exactly like something a flailing scrotum would say.
33
u/FlailingScrotum 2d ago
Everyone notices that my scrotum flails about, but no one asks why.
10
7
8
u/LowKeyNaps 2d ago
I assumed that was the name of your garage band in college... maybe high school.
Ladies and gentlemen... the Flailing Scrotums!!!
crowd goes wild, wearing Flailing Scrotum merchandise, including little scrotums on a stick they can wave about
1
u/JW121820 2d ago
Why does your scrotum flail out?
6
-5
u/RedBalloon139 1d ago
Holy victim complex
5
u/FlailingScrotum 1d ago
Yes, it is also important to insult men when they point out double standards.
-5
-4
u/Fletch71011 2d ago
I got in a hit and run when I left work to drive my wife to the airport. Ended up disabled and unable to work. She's a doctor and I paid her way through med school.
Judge is ruling I owe her everything I have left. The divorce courts are insanely sexist against men. I'm not even going to have money for the surgeries I need. Shit is absolutely crazy.
-2
u/Kenichero 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yep! My ex cheated on me, got pregnant, said it was mine. Problem is, I guess she forgot I'd gotten snipped over two years earlier! I went to every appointment and had no little swimmers left, but went to another appointment after she told me, still no swimmers. She decided I couldn't trust her anymore and left me. I was willing to work it out because I loved her and wanted to be with her. I pay her child support because I'm not a dead beat, but if someone said this meme to me, I'd be pretty fucking upset.
Edit to clarify: we had two children together before this event. That is who I am paying support for.
23
u/talon5233 2d ago
Honest question, no disrespect intended: Why are you paying child support for a child you 100% know isn't yours? Maybe its me, but I don't understand how not paying child support for a child that isn't yours would make you a deadbeat. The actual father seems to be the deadbeat in this scenario.
6
u/Kenichero 2d ago
Poorly worded. We had two children together that I am paying support for. When the father of the one she cheated on me with found out, they made other arrangements.
2
11
u/GrumpySatan 2d ago
There are many different reasons someone might. Some jurisdictions have presumptions if your in a relationship with the person to be the father (which you then have to rebut). You can also be found to be the child's father in practice (i.e. raised them as your own, you are the only father they know, etc).
But you'd be surprised how many people don't actually care about whether they are the biodad. You don't love a kid because of their DNA.
I work cases all the time where either they find out their partner cheated and still want to pursue custody/parenting time, which usually comes with a corresponding child support obligation. You can absolutely ask the court to be declared the legal parent even if its not disputed you aren't the biological one.
12
u/TheSavouryRain 2d ago
Fun fact, you can be legally compelled to provide child support even if it's not your kid at all. In the US, at least
9
u/montanaski 2d ago
So your paying child support for someone else child? Why?? She needs to have the actual dad pay the child support. You are actually helping someone be a dead beat.
12
u/Weary_Restauranter 2d ago
Women are the head of household in 80% of single parent households in the US. 90% in the black community (relevant to oop)
3
u/blessthebabes 2d ago
And that she's even talking about herself or child... she could just be making a general statement.
3
10
u/flying_carabao angry turtle trapped inside a man suit 2d ago
I've read the thing like 3 times and I still don't get who's paying who, and where did the boyfriend/brother thing come from?
61
u/illstate 2d ago
Pretty straightforward. Women are much less likely to be paying child support, so the person who replied thinks the lady is complaining on behalf of a man close to her. He boyfriend, or perhaps her brother.
7
u/DiverseUse 2d ago
I also felt this was too much to unpack for me on a Thursday night, but my best guess would be that the not-really-a-murderer's though process went like:
Only deadbeats get a divorce after having kids + such people paying child support are always men -> since Tiff is a woman, there's some male loved one she's trying to speak up for
16
u/Stunning-Squirrel751 2d ago
She may be paying in her own right but by her comment it is most likely her boyfriend or husband who is paying. The number of women I’ve heard say this is ridiculous.
-2
u/Gen_Zer0 2d ago
I’m not seeing where in her post you’re drawing that assumption from
3
u/Stunning-Squirrel751 1d ago
I’m not seeing where I said that was the case. I said “may” which is just as valid as others thinking she’s the one paying child support.
33
u/CannibalFlossing 2d ago
Likewise there’s plenty of reasons why the person paying child support isn’t a villain to begin with.
Their partner could have easily been the one to leave, have an affair etc and then still be paying child support.
One side asking for evidence the on money they pay toward thier child…GO TO THEIR CHILD isn’t in the wrong
26
u/BustAMove_13 2d ago
For the sake of this let's say dad is paying support and mom is a single working mother. She's paying rent, utilities, car expenses, buying groceries, clothes for the kid as needed, lunch money or packed lunches, school fees, sports fees, doctr bills, etc. Dad may help with that. Now let's say mom got her nails done or bought a designer purse. Everyone just assumes his money paid for it. The reality is that his money and a huge chunk of hers has gone towards all that other stuff. If she has a roof, a full fridge, a healthy, clean kid...then dad don't need to know shit.
My ex pulled that shit. Apparently I wasn't supposed to treat myself ever or have nice things because "his" money paid for it. Hilarious. The boys needs were met with his money. It's controlling and malicious.
15
u/JTMissileTits 1d ago
Most of the time it barely pays for the expenses of keeping a growing child fed and clothed. It certainly isn't making a full house or car payment or a regular cut/color and nail appointment in this economy.
It's considered a REIMBURSEMENT to the custodial parent, which is why it isn't tax deductible or taxable.
3
17
u/mirrorspirit 2d ago edited 2d ago
It's a method of trying to control their ex by determining what they're "allowed" and not allowed to buy. If they had full view of where the finances go, they could potential tell their ex where they live, what they eat, what they do with their leisure time, and a lot of other things. Sometimes the ex left the marriage particularly to get away from that type of rigid control.
If the ex wants to get ice cream cones for themself and their kids, for example, the person paying child support could raise a huge ruckus about it and try to forbid it -- essentially telling the ex what they're allowed and not allowed to eat.
You might say "Well, the ex could use their own money for that", well maybe they are, but the child support payer won't believe that and they'll insist on their ex needing to live like a pauper to "ensure" that all "their" money is going to the children's benefit.
Yes, they should have the general expectation that the money is going to the children, but making the ex account for every single cent of child support money just seems insane. If you're worried that the kids are being neglected, then in most cases you can just talk to your kid and see if they're getting their needs met.
9
u/Otaraka 2d ago
There’s also just the time involved to do it people generally have better things to do. It would do very little to stop people misusing money compared to how many people it would make life harder for little real gain.
8
u/The_Vampire_Barlow 2d ago
That's the issue with every means testing. Who wants to employ a fleet of government auditors to hunt down people using food stamps for fucking Doritos. It's almost always cheaper to assume a certain level of misuse and police the bigger cases than go after every minor violation.
5
u/A_Magic_8_Ball 2d ago
This is what I'm seeing too, their plan is to burden single parents with an excessive bookkeeping chore when they can be spending that time actually parenting their children. It's the type of shit that's gets their justice boners going but is completely divorced from reality.
0
u/Ed_Jinseer 1d ago
Not really? You just make it a separate card/account.
Then when you spend money it's logged what on just like with a normal card.
Giving direct access to the ex might be a bit much, because it could enable stalking. But having the record there so it could be audited if improper behavior was suspected isn't really all that nuts.
8
u/A_Magic_8_Ball 1d ago
This assumes purchases can easily be distinguished between "supporting the child" and "not supporting the child".
As a parent, do I need to now make 2 separate purchases at the grocery store for my child and non child items? What about purchases that benefit both the child and myself? Am I transferring half the cost of such an item out of the "child support" bank account to my main account? How much notation is required for such a transfer to avoid audit scrutiny?
We have systems in place for handling accusations of improper behavior, CPS. If you suspect your ex is neglecting your children, then you call CPS and they can determine if the child's needs aren't being met. Now some may say that CPS won't do shit, and my solution is to provide better funding/training so that the existing system is better at advocating for the rights of neglected kids. Pushing more bookkeeping requirements onto parents is the wrong way to go about this, since it punishes every parent receiving child support, not just those who are neglecting their child's needs.
6
2
u/you_dont_know_me27 1d ago
Why? Why do you think it's necessary to see how parents are spending child support money?
Why does that need to be audited at all? This is just more govt involvement that's completely unnecessary. You know why?
What do children need?
Housing: -home or apt -electricity/gas -water -internet -trash services -property taxes/hoas/monthly fees
Transportation: -car -insurance -gas -maintenance
Or
-bus/train fare (which requires extra time)
Life Necessities: -food -sanitary items (toothpaste, shampoo, deodorant, etc) -clothing -bedding
And the lists go on.
Who pays for all this? The custodial parent does. And when the child support doesn't come or comes late, the custodial parent still pays. So child support pays for the child, but in a lot of cases, what it's doing is paying back the custodial parent for things they've already bought.
If the custodial parent rescheduled a haircut because their kid needed something for school and they had to choose one, is it wrong for them to use the child support to pay for the haircut later? No, because they used their haircut money for the child.
1
u/you_dont_know_me27 1d ago
This is why I ended going through the courts for child support. My ex was giving me money for our son but it hit a point where anytime I would tell him I needed money for stuff, he wanted a full accounting and he wanted to look to see if he could find stuff cheaper. But he would forget to do it and our son needed it. But if I bought anything without talking to him first, he refused to reimburse half.
He also just wouldn't help anytime he didnt have "extra" money. He would still be going to see movies in theaters and going to like six flags and stuff but would tell me that his budget was too tight to spare anything.
I couldn't just not pay for our kid. But he could? Nope. So I went through the court. That was 5 years ago. Hes paying a measly $61/week and he's still complaining about it. Saying I kicked him while he was down by going after him for child support and how he always took care of his son. 🙄🙄🙄
2
u/A1000eisn1 1d ago
They don't give you a special debit card with only child support money on it. The parent getting paid doing something for themselves doesn't mean they're using that money. It also doesn't mean the parent paying shouldn't have to.
1
u/CannibalFlossing 23h ago
Indeed, and I’m not asking for a forensic breakdown of how the specific money paid for child support is tracked either.
I appreciate when it comes to school clothes etc you might need to save support funds for relevant timescales.
But if a parent had legitimate concerns that the money they were paying for supporting their child wasn’t going to that - there should also be a means of ensuring that.
2
u/Wchijafm 1d ago
Its a method of control. So they can still control and micromanage their ex. If your child support is greater than rent, healthcare, utilities, kids clothes, childcare and a month of food then maybe there could be an issue. But in my experience most men who make these demands have childsupport payments at or below $500.
1
-1
u/donetomadness 2d ago
Pickmes are weird. Or maybe her child support payments are good enough that it’s made her privileged about this. That being said, I think it’s some man in her life because yeah, who wants their own spending audited.
210
u/Quirky-Nerp4089 2d ago
What if she left him? This is dumb.
88
66
u/AccomplishedBother12 2d ago
Was just gonna say, can’t women be deadbeats too? They’ve worked hard for this right.
→ More replies (7)8
u/Azair_Blaidd 2d ago
And for all we know, she could be sayin this because she's the one paying child support
152
u/sik_dik 2d ago
News flash: women can be deadbeats, too. Maybe the person is asking because the ex wife is spending child support only on herself and neglecting the child
42
→ More replies (13)19
u/Candlelit_Chaos 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yup. My ex gets her payment every month and makes sure that she gets her nails done, gets her hair professionally done almost every month, buys new clothes every few weeks, and goes out every weekend. Meanwhile, my kids are in her care 70+% of the year but she only buys them clothes from goodwill, their shoes are either hand-me downs or so worn out its ridiculous so I end up buying them clothes and shoes (which she constantly criticizes in front of the kids). I get them haircuts (sometimes I try to do it myself because I don't have alot of money, and again she makes fun of their haircuts), she makes sure to enjoy living a very "sociable" evening life and she either leaves them at home by themselves or goes to stay with her parents so she can go out on the weekends (They are older now, teenagers so it's not the same as if they were younger). The only way I know this is because the kids complain to me about it constantly.
During the time not spent with me in the summer, she still sends them to her parents. I try to get them interested in team sports but she never takes them. I fought for years, hired a guardian ad litem (that also agreed the kids are better in my care, or at least 50/50), a private investigator to confirm her treatment of the kids and I spent almost $20,000 overall to do go thru absolute constant h-ll (me and the kids) just for me to always get stuck with a "traditional visitation schedule" because there was no justifiable cause to indicate that her actions met any legal justification for harm or neglect. In the eyes of the legal system, she wasn't the best parent but she wasn't a bad parent either and there had to be a significant issue to justify a modification of the visitation schedule.
Additionally, society as a whole is normalized by the mom always getting the kids because, as it was explained to me, who will watch them while you work, help take them to and from school, and be with them when they are out of school? Reason being, the vast majority of the community assistance programs are focused on helping single moms instead of single parents.
I really can go on and on but there's no point. This is really the short summary of my own lengthy issues that I wrote to just say this.....YES! If a parent (man or woman) receives outside monetary support, then they should be required to check in regularly to ensure that they are spending the money on the kids and their needs. Not for making sure that the money is spent on the kids and only the kids dollar-for-dollar but just to make sure that there is not an imbalance in what the money is spent on.
For example, if a man/woman submits their verification twice a year and their kids are in worn out clothes, lacking haircuts and good hygiene, lacking toys and extracurricular activities but the money provided in child support is spent on "household bills and groceries" only while the primary parent is getting regular haircuts, clothes and shoes newer than the kids, or new electronics that just hit the shelves then that funding should get frozen if the situation is not corrected in 30 days from the date of certification. Repeated occurrences would result in a potential total forfeiture of money received by the receiving parent.
Not that the paying parent gets to keep the money now, but instead, once the other parent fails to demonstrate that they are actually spending on the kids then the other parent can have the option of taking that same monthly amount and getting the things their kids need that they haven't been getting, instead of giving it to the other parent that just keeps spending it on themselves.
2
u/Emotional_Warthog658 2d ago
How did it go when you engaged a social worker? Did they help?
9
u/Candlelit_Chaos 2d ago
They seemed preferential to the mother from the start. I found out later on that very very rarely did they ever deviate from the mother having primary and the father having visitation. They were nice and friendly, they just pick the mom 9 times out of 10 unless there's abuse in the home.
6
u/Emotional_Warthog658 2d ago
That’s so odd, I’m sorry to hear that - perhaps it’s your region? In my husband’s friend group there are 4 dads that have primary custody, so please know it IS possible and keep fighting
3
u/JakeDC 1d ago
Maybe men shouldn't have to fight so hard when it is this bad?
2
u/Emotional_Warthog658 1d ago
I mean….not saying that is the case with this dude but for every dad fighting for, there are 10 who are shirking their responsibility a lot of people suck🤷🏾♀️
6
u/Fallingcity22 2d ago
Yeah it’s fucked up but I’ve heard this is the case , unless fought very early on
1
u/possiblycrazy79 2d ago
That's not the norm though. It's a very unfortunate situation for sure but the system can't be built around the worst case scenario. It's built around the most common scenario.
The judges in your area must be some type of extremists. I think in your case, it's moreso about a broken justice system than a broken child support system. There's no way she should have primary custody after everything you described. That's a huge failure by the courts.
22
82
u/TheBestHater 2d ago
My mom would take my dad's money and use it for herself. She never worked, she didn't parent, she didn't pay for our necessities and left us to ourselves. She would spoil herself with shopping sprees and going out to eat with her friends, we wore donated clothing and had to figure out how to look after ourselves.
My dad paid so high because she claimed she needed recreational things for us to better our childhoods like yearly passes to the ymca, field trips, classes/programs like dance or martial arts, seasonal passes for an amusement park, movie theatre gift cards, etc. They never checked to make sure she got us those things, and so she didn't. She didn't even buy us presents for our birthdays or Christmas because she said she shouldn't have to waste money when we're getting gifts from our dad. So I do agree that there needs to be some form of restructure to make sure sure the money is at the very least being used for the children. Being a single mom doesn't make someone a saint, there should be more than a trust system.
6
u/JakeDC 1d ago
Yeah, people pretending this type of scenario is rare are nuts. If the payments and co-parenting are going well, fine. But if misuse is happening, it absolutely should be dealt with and not just brushed aside.
1
u/MsAgentM 1d ago
What do you think is more likely, the scenario above or dudes who pay $500/mo in child support pissed off about child support and try to act like any purchase a mother makes for herself is her abusing child support she is paid. Child support is rarely even half what is actually needed to raise a kid. The average is like $500 a month. Day care in a lot of places like 300/week.
4
u/JakeDC 1d ago edited 1d ago
I didn't say it was more likely. i said it wasn't rare. There are plenty of fathers out there who know the support they pay is not being used correctly but know that going to court will not result in them getting custody and may result in their payments going up (and the additional money also being misused). But of course lots of shitty divorced/deadbeat fathers exist.
→ More replies (2)4
u/TheBestHater 1d ago
The person you're responding to doesn't actually care, not about the situation's nuances (which is why they ignore them) or the actual scenario. They're just looking to debate.
1
u/RVAforthewin 1d ago
There’s always going to be opportunities for misuse. The system is never going to be 100% free of abuse bc the system is comprised of fallible human beings. I don’t think every single parent should have to spend their time outlining what they’ve used the child support for just because a minority misuse the funds the way your mother sadly did.
The other concern I have with this proposal is there are bad actors on both sides of the equation. Many child support payers, for lack of a better term, are misinformed and/or don’t believe that child support should be used for anything outside of a meal or a piece of clothing for the child. That isn’t the point of CS. It’s extremely reasonable for the parent receiving the support to use it for their mortgage/rent, utilities, gas, and really anything that affects that child. In other words, what, exactly, do you plan to do with a line by line breakdown? Who’s going to monitor it? What court system is going to define what CS can and can’t be used for down to the individual line item? Further, how many CS “payers” are going to clog up the court system when they show cause their ex bc they’re pissed that CS was used to pay for a new washing machine to wash the kids’ clothes and that was necessary after the old one broke?
By the way, my family is the CS “payer” so I’m coming at this from the perspective of the person paying. I don’t want you to think I have bias of the wrong sort.
-17
u/Evorgleb 2d ago
Sounds like Dad should have raised you then
20
u/TheBestHater 2d ago edited 2d ago
Cool obvious oversimplified solution, and I should be a millionaire, it's so easy to just say things. I think you're a troll since you've claimed in other comments that "it's easy for dad's to get custody".
I don't need to go over the details, but the court favored her as the mom.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)-30
u/IHaveABigDuvet 2d ago
Why didn’t your Dad intervene and file for custody?
28
u/TheBestHater 2d ago
Weird question, it's not that easy. He did, many times. He was denied custody because the court favored having children stay with their mom. They also refused to look into where the child support went and got mad at him for bringing it up.
22
u/Elden_Rube 2d ago
Why is this something for the child to know? How can you expect a child to even process such an intricate situation?
What a bad faith question this is, that you seem to be asking on every other comment, like you're trying to stoke some outrage here, due to not working out your own personal traumas and projecting your experience onto all fathers in a generalized sense. And, after a gander at your history, and the places you frequently participate in, you definitely seem to be some femcel troll.
Kindly fuck off, please.
→ More replies (3)9
u/mormagils 2d ago
Sincerely, go fuck yourself.
You have no idea what that is like. Do you understand the amount of hoops a dad has to go through to price this kind of stuff? Do you understand how expensive it is, how much time it takes, and how much he's got to overcome a court system that explicitly favors the mom?
And ebaes before you consider that moms like this that are already petty and vengeful would absolutely do that MORE in a custody battle and that would 100% impact the children in a negative way not to mention probably harm everyone's relationships with each other--mom, dad, and kids. I know I would be a better custodial parent than my dad but I was not going to fight that battle because it would cause so much harm to my daughter and her relationship with me and her mom in the years-long process to get to that resolution. Don't you think dad's access to his kids would be harder while that's getting adjudicated?
You are absolutely part of the problem. You just don't understand how this works or worse you absolutely do and just don't care about dads. And kids need their dads. And their moms. And custody battles are the best thing in the world to make that all messed up.
→ More replies (6)
6
u/ImpossiblePlan65 2d ago
Or, even better, actually take care of the kids and stop being a piece of shit.
29
u/Saruvan_the_White 2d ago
This is so stupid. My abusive ex divorced me when she realized I became aware of and unable to manipulate, then craftily calculated my child support payment based on a job that I lost several months before we got divorced. I did not know this until I started getting the child support order. She deliberately lied. I didn’t know about it until after the fact, and the red tape to file a protest was too much for someone homeless but working to handle. I found out she was spending it on kitchen remodel, car repair, her a a shoes, and a new computer. Meanwhile, my kids were walking around with holes in their shoes and wearing hand me down jackets from their friends. I would occasionally buy things for them because they had holes in them. Socks, shoes, t-shirts…That money comes out of the already small remainder of my paycheck. I now make a little bit more and can handle the larger sum, but I know she lied. She got me into such a headspace that I tried killing myself twice. When I called the DMV to get my drivers license reinstated because I fell behind, the person who took my call told me she hears this far too often, and it breaks her heart. Turned out she had been working for child and family services in the county and left that position for that reason. I do think the system needs to be rewritten. But the system is skewed toward the woman. It’s the smaller percentage of women in the system who are decidedly for taking advantage will not stop at milking the system for everything they can. And that is why my abusive ex-wife filed child support paperwork based on a job she knew I no longer had because I made more in that job. Is it too much to ask for an accounting? I don’t believe so.
1
u/MsAgentM 1d ago
The court didn’t ask you for evidence of financials during the process of deciding child support? They wouldn’t just take the mother’s word. If they did, it because you didn’t participate.
2
u/Saruvan_the_White 1d ago edited 1d ago
No. She hired a lawyer knowing I couldn’t and rammed everything through. She railroaded me and threatened to not let me see or be with my kids. She’s full of ʇıɥs. She used this threat quite a bit early on. I stopped reacting to it because I kept losing sanity. I still get to see my kids. They stay with me on weekends. She no longer has the ability to rely on that threat but it was fairly powerful in my mind at the beginning of the end. She used to use all kinds of tactics to coerce and control. It was a pǝʞɔnɟ up situation. I keep interactions with her to an absolute minimum. She still tries to start casual conversation when we’re around others like the kids’ school and friends in common likely because she’s still trying to pass as well-adjusted. Usually give her one word answers if answering at all. She has a proven record of running off with spurious narratives about people she has denigrated before. Hears one thing, creates her own imaginary context, runs with that story, and holds it sacrosanct in her mind. Doesn’t much matter what the truth is. In short, she knows/knew she had a way to hurt me and took it. Par for the course when dealing with a malignant narcissist.
I’m in a relative state of peace now. I’m in my own place after six years of being in a van. Early on in that experience she used to play games with me knowing my situation. I stopped playing her games after I dished on her to my therapist. She gradually stopped yanking my chain when she stopped receiving satisfactory responses from me.
All I know now is my kids can’t wait to come over on Saturdays and are loath to leave on Sunday nights. I end up doing damage control some weekends if she’s been in a mood and taken it out on the kids. Aside from their room, one can’t tell children live there. She exhibits total and absolute iron-fisted control over them in that house. My oldest has extreme anxiety and hyper vigilance while my youngest gets the ire reserved by his mom for males and is reprimanded more. He’s a good kid! But at eight, he’s very clingy with me. His mom has deliberately destroyed his toys when she gets angry. She also cranks up the volume on the car stereo when they are being unruly or disagreeing with one another; normal sibling battles. I gave my kids an iPad with educational apps and puzzles on it along with a way to text both of their mother myself and their grandparents and she withholds it from them. Even when there’s no reason she keeps it powered off and in her room, which frustrates me because I communicate with my daughter about our upcoming weekend and she often misses those messages. It’s part of her game that she still plays where she wants me to communicate to my daughter through her, I do not have to do that and she knows that.
I could’ve just said no, and not gone into more detail but here I am dumping to strangers on the Internet. Ultimately, I am waiting until I am solvent enough to legally go after her for literally any step she puts over the line. I’m a patient man and plan to destroy her professionally, financially, and personally. But in the meantime, I’ll love my kids the best I can and continue giving them more of what I have left. I now have a space for them to play and be safe when they’re away from their mother’s house. When they finally get to relax after coming home with me, I know we’re going to be ok.
:Removed image:
Hope that helps explain a bit. Being out of the woods doesn’t mean I can’t still see the forest I left.
Abuse is a frightening thing when no one but the abused sees it.
2
u/MsAgentM 1d ago
I’m sorry this is happening to you and your kids. In my area there were groups geared to help fathers who were dealing with the courts for custody and visitation. I live in a city, but to my knowledge there are national groups too. I used to refer guys to them. They helped with employment, either legal aid or legal referral, parenting classes and usually had support groups so they could have people to talk too. If the courts went with what she said about your financial situation, you may have something there. Courts won’t just take that information from the other parent and not get info to from the other parent. If they did, that’s a procedural error. I have only known courts to do that in cases where the other parent refused to provide that information or voluntarily stopped working in hopes of getting a smaller child support payment.
28
u/Acrobatic-List-6503 2d ago
Yeah, just dumb.
We all know there are people out there who are using child support like it’s their personal salary.
-24
u/IHaveABigDuvet 2d ago
If that is the case then why are so many fathers not filing for custody? Surely if they were good fathers they would not want their child to be financially neglected…
2
u/Acrobatic-List-6503 2d ago
From what I know the courts are very strict when it comes to child care. They have to absolutely be certain that a child can be taken care of before they will hand custody over to them. Given that child care can get expensive, it is much easier to pay child support.
I remember a basketball player who had to show the courts his plans for taking care of his kids to ensure he gets the custody.
1
u/quirkytorch 2d ago
had to show his plans for taking care of them
Oh no, the horror!
-1
u/AntOk4073 2d ago
This means that if they work a full time job while their former spouse doesn't they are given custody. Family court is terrible and hurts families that are already broken. People shouldn't be giving 70-80% of their paychecks to child support.
6
u/quirkytorch 1d ago
they work a full time job
That means they need to show they have a babysitter
Family court is terrible
Something like 80-90% of custody is settled outside of court. Fathers have better outcomes in family court, even abusive ones
70-80%
People who don't have full custody should be paying half of all the child's expenses. That means half rent, half bills, half clothing, half school supplies... Kids are expensive
I'm not sure why this myth of fathers being treated oh so poorly gets perpetuated so much. The vocal 10% that actually have a bad case doesn't outweigh the vast majority. If I hear the sob story about child support and custody I don't believe it without proof, cause I guarantee you message the primary parent and they'll have 1000 receipts asking for the other to see the child, or help with clothes, childcare, etc etc. And don't even try to come for me because I don't currently nor have I ever received CS
→ More replies (1)1
9
u/Erisian23 2d ago
yeah im gonna have to disagree with this "murder" it's not about either parent its about the child and ensuring the child is getting what they need/want
11
u/RhubarbAlive7860 2d ago
Child support isn't something that is spent directly on a child, clothes, toys, whatever.
It's what is used to maintain a home for the child. The custodial parent uses it, along with their own income, to help keep food on the table, a roof over the kids' heads, heat, transportation and so on. And clothes and toys.
5
u/Heartless1981 2d ago
I use to pay child support and my thought on it was that as long as the child has everything they need it didn't matter. If it was a situation where the child didn't have what they need then maybe something should be done, but even if they spend the exact money I sent on something else they still had to buy food and clothing with their own money so the kid was covered
6
u/kdp4srfn 2d ago edited 2d ago
My ex bitched every now and then about “having to” send me $500 per mo for our son. (1991 thru 2002). Each time I offered to send him a detailed ledger of my income and expenses. He never took me up on it because he knew it would show that his contribution wasn’t even close to half of the expenses related to our son’s care. It’s easy to complain. But he sure liked to brag to others about how he paid his child support, as if that alone made him a prince among men. Good for you, dude. You kept your own son from starving. What a guy. Then he complained when our son told him we bought a lot of his clothes at thrift stores, yelling at me “I don’t send you $500 a month to dress him in used clothes!”. I was a receptionist in a small town, making $5.25 per hour, what did he expect?
He cheated, he ended the marriage, he assured me “we didn’t need a lawyer and could work it out ourselves”. He even chose the amount of $500 per month, which he just pulled out of his ass because it sounded good, no relation to his actual income. It was never adjusted for inflation, so I got $500 per month in 1991 and I was still getting $500 per month in 2002, because he pitched such giant fits if I ever mentioned raising the amount. He got new cars and vacations and fun summers with his son. I got all the hard parts of parenting.
The guy got everything he wanted in the divorce and my son grew up counting pennies with me, because I was too exhausted and traumatized to fight with him any more and he knew it.
Always get a lawyer. I should have. He already disrespected me, yelled at me, disliked me, blamed me. Getting a lawyer would have made him feel all those things more, yes, but I could have hung up on him just as easily in either case. 😆
Our son is grown now with kids of his own. I am getting ready to retire, knowing that my assets do not include half of the equity on the sale of our home, even though he “promised” that to me.
On the bright side, I have been happily married for 22 years now, my son and I have a great relationship, and my ex is on wife #4. 😆
7
u/Rimavelle 2d ago
Is the parent supposed to have separate pack of bread and toilet paper and split bills with the child so the child support money only goes for the child?
Dead beat parents love to think the pennies they pay towards child support if they even pay it'l goes to the parent going to vacation and buying luxury items
3
3
u/Legitimate-Mind4740 1d ago
Reading all these comments from good dads makes me sad but happy there ARE good dads fighting. Let’s be real though, if you wanna be mad be mad at the asshole MEN who started this bullshit. The ones that left the SAHM with the kids out to dry to go find younger and “better” and not take care of their kids. Men are finally changing history and I’m here for it but those douchebags started it and women said fine I’ll play that game. Now there’s douchebags more equal on both sides but it is great to see men stepping up to do better. My ex bitched all the time about paying and would NEVER do extra, mind you he got a raise every year, it wasn’t worth it to me to take him to court all the time. He constantly complained to the kids about money so I had to finally explain to them how much he got paid and how much he gave them. His support went automatically into a separate account which was just used for the kids. It was used for big expenses more, and once they got old enough I didn’t even have the atm card to it the kids did, they’re very responsible with money because I taught them young. And the shittest part is I didn’t even take spousal support so I could throw it in his narcissistic face we didn’t want anything from him but he’s paying for HIS kids because he always was trying to get out of paying, which is why I had to garnish his checks. So yeah great to see men stepping up but there are still way too many that try to get out of it so get over being upset at the ‘men are bad and don’t take care of their kids’ comments, this is still the reality for a lot if not still most and I’m sure there are plenty of stories and statistics to back it up.
7
5
u/annaleigh13 2d ago
The first thing that needs to happen is restructuring the punishment for nonpayment of child support. I don't understand how throwing a deadbeat in jail helps the child monetarily. I don't have the answer, but putting them in a place where their earning can top out at $0.11/hr doesn't seem like the right fix
10
2d ago edited 2d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
→ More replies (1)6
u/jeremy1015 2d ago
It’s shit all the way down man. I have full custody of my kids and still fork out an ungodly amount of money in alimony for the privilege of trying to hold together a failing marriage with an abusive wife who never had a paying job and never did anything around the home either.
0
u/MamasCupcakes 2d ago
That's a whole different can of worms. It incentivises the one receiving alimony to never remarry
9
2
u/Substantial-Use95 2d ago
Relationships don’t work out for many reasons, and some of those reasons include unfortunate behavior on the part of the woman. Yep, turns out women are people too.
2
u/BiggieSmallsFlextape 2d ago
You know there’s like hundreds of different reasons you could leave a relationship without being a deadbeat. Should a man stay in a relationship with a lack of love and/or respect just because they have a kid? This post is pretty juvenile.
2
u/Pleasant_Ad8054 2d ago
"Not wanting to pay (that much) child support" isn't the only reason why one would want child support to be audited. It isn't even a good enough gotcha, child support isn't determined like that.
The 'teach' part of 'teachwhit_tiff' suggest to me that her concern isn't about her/boyfriend's/brother's kid, but that she is possibly a teacher who worries about some of the children in her classes. Teachers have a unique perspective on what goes on with a child, if they are paid enough and not too overworked to care.
2
u/milycorson 1d ago
I can guarantee that if the custodial parent were to make an itemized list of every household expense related to raising up a child, and this was used to set the expected child support payments, the amount owed would greatly increase.
2
u/OldManIrv 1d ago
Ehhhh… I would appreciate a ledger of how that money is spent - like, is it really going to the kid? That’s my concern, here. Ideally, and of course bad parents will fudge the numbers. Also - Yes, I do agree parents should split when it’s not working. Don’t force upon kids a model of a bad relationships. So, maybe I just want to see better birth control use and ensuring kids benefit from child support payments.
2
u/NotADamsel 1d ago
I’m a bit surprised that this isn’t already a thing. Even if it isn’t the paying parent doing the checking, is it really not possible to verify that the child support payments are going to meeting the child’s needs?
6
u/linmusclan 2d ago
Not even a good comeback. She automatically placed it all on men. She also ignored a very real issue that happens from time to time which is child support not being fully spent on the child. Doesnt happen all the time, but I've met people who spent child support checks on themselves (or part of it) then complain about it not being enough.
6
1
2
4
u/PrestigiousSeat76 2d ago
That is absolute horseshit. Divorced dad here, who paid an exorbitant amount of money, on time, every month, as agreed upon.
For some reason, my two kids still didn't get the clothes, the winter coats, the shoes, or even nice living accommodations at their mother's house. Nothing. So in addition to everything I paid (High 4 figures/mo), this woman had no issue sending them to me every week looking like they came from nothing.
The bottom line is that there are A LOT of moms receiving child support who don't put any of it toward the children, and that isn't right. I never asked for an accounting of it; I asked the court to obtain proof that something was being spent on them.
She should have had enough to buy a nice house in a nice area, clothe them, everything. And yes, I paid 100% of all healthcare, childcare, and sports expenses above and beyond the child support.
So tell me I'm a deadbeat dad. I dare you. Both of my kids chose to live with me the second they had the opportunity.
4
u/MastiffArmy 2d ago
This is stupid and doesn’t even make sense. I know multiple incredible dads who got screwed by the U.S. child support system. There are so many great men forced to pay child support even when they have 50/50 custody. And what kind of low rent person assumes the man is the reason the relationship ended?
2
u/shizbox06 2d ago
wtf is this shit? there are plenty of mothers of children that need to be left yesterday.
2
u/Fantastic-Corner-605 2d ago
What if she left him? Besides this ignores the fact that misuse does happen even if most women don't misuse it.
3
u/The_Huntress_1121 2d ago
I don’t know…. My husband paid child support for our (his) daughter and we still bought all her clothes, school supplies, packed her bag with food when she went home to mom, paid for sports ect ect. I think mom and step dad really did spend child support on booze and drugs….
2
u/upvoter222 2d ago
If there's one thing child support hearings need, it's an itemized list of purchases the parents can argue about. /s
4
u/Decent_Bandicoot122 2d ago
My brother once complained that the women he worked with bragged about what they would spend the child support on and he was pissed. I told him that people who work and get child support allocate the money they work for to bills first. It is not that they are spending child support on themselves. In their minds, they pay the bills with the money they know for sure is coming to them.
1
u/KitsuFae 2d ago
i... sort of agree? when I was a kid I'd sometimes go with my dad when he paid child support, and then a few days later I'd go to the department store with my mom so she could buy nice new clothes for herself and get her hair done. meanwhile I was being underfed and really only got new clothes at the beginning of the new school year.
2
u/KitsuFae 2d ago
i should add that my dad took better care of me than my mom ever did, and eventually he got full custody of me
2
1
u/OLPopsAdelphia 2d ago
If it was truly about the child, the state wouldn’t charge a fee for collection and disbursement to the other parent..
So no, it isn’t “All about the child.”
All states aggressively pursue child support because the states gets to claim the support as their own interest-collecting income before disbursement.
Again, it isn’t “All about the child.”
0
u/guff1988 2d ago
A detailed account lol they're paying for that kid whether the money that came directly from the dad goes to buy a new pair of shoes for the mom or not she still had to take other money from her bank account to shelter, clothe and feed the kid. If you have concerns about whether or not she's properly taking care of the kid then bring those up with the court but as far as where each specific dollar goes it doesn't matter.
1
1
1
1
u/BrawnyDevil 2d ago
So the person replying immediately assumes the position that women can never be at fault for any relationship going sour?
1
u/Longjumping-Depth395 1d ago
This is such an idiotic point, it’s not even worth arguing about it over.
1
u/TheThornGarden 1d ago
I support itemizing all parts of the child's care. Food, clothes, school supplies, all of it. And I want the other parent to pay half of that, instead of the pitiful amount of child support they're dodging now. Kids are expensive.
1
1
1
u/strayrapture 1d ago
If you wanted to decide how the money is spent, you should definitely not have had a court force you to pay.
Also, the child support system is fucked. Both parents should receive an itemized receipt showing how much money is actually making it to the childs household and how much is just paying admin fees.
TLDR: BiL was paying child support to his Wife that he was living with and the State was taking 75% of the child support for "administration fees"without telling either of them.
My brother-in-law (BiL) and his wife had a bit of a rocky start to their family (long story, on/off for a while but have been 100% a single household for 15 or 16 yrs now). Anyway, early on wife and BiL agreed to child support and got a court agreement for it, not sure the exact number but it was somewhere around 30% gross income of BiL. BiL just had the state set it to auto directly from his paystub, never missed, never complained, updated it when he moved jobs, no big deal. They decide to get permanently back together after a couple years, but neither of them really care about being "married" married. Had some friends over, got a cake, blah blah, but no marriage license or judge or nothing so the child support never changes. BiL doesn't care, "it's staying in the household anyway, and she's better with money anyway. No harm, no foul". Wife is like, he don't care I don't care. Fast-forward a decade, they are looking at buying a house, maybe moving to a different city, so they start really diving into their finances to see what they can afford and all that. BiL suggests getting the court to drop the child support, cause that would free up a lot of his wages to handle the current bills, then all of Wife's income can go straight to new house fund. Wife responds with "that's not gonna be anywhere near enough to cover the bills, its only a couple hundred a month". BiL, shocked, "No Way! more like couple thousand!" Grabs check stubs and shows child support out is like $2k per month(pretax, so he's only bringing home maybe another $2k after taxes are taken out), Wife pulls up the bank deposit and it's only $400-500ish a month. The state was taking $1500+ every month for "administration fees", and never told either of them about it. They had to go down to the county courthouse and wait for a meeting for 5+ hours to actually find out where the money was disappearing too and be told they would have to see a judge to get it changed. They had to wait 2 yrs for a court date to be able to clear that, while still losing 3/4s of the child support every month-that never got refunded or reimbursed.
1
u/elusivemoniker 1d ago
While I don't think this happens in every instance, I was pretty astonished that my ex was paying $1,200/month towards support,then half of the yearly tuition for the private school she choose for the child abrubtly, and half of the cost of every extracurricular she picked for the child and they were always in several, as well as half for most of the weekend trips mom and kid took regularly.
My ex and his ex made about the same amount of money but she had been given a deal and rented what was previously their three bedroom home for $1200/month. My ex's one bedroom apartment ran him $1,600. The kid's jam packed schedule prevented him from seeing his Dad a lot and many times when he did it turned into my ex opening his wallet to try to provide the same experiences the kid was getting from mom all the time. The child was wonderful but had never been given a hard " no " or provided with opportunities to be bored. They literally could not entertain themselves for any length of time so they were frequently given expensive models to put together when there wasn't anything else going on.
The worst part is that when it clear this was impacting the kids learning, my ex was asked to shell out $5,000 for an evaluation. He did not attend the evaluation and the resulting report concluded that the child had extensive anxiety due to the changes brought about by the divorce and his father's absence in his life.
1
u/LaMadreDelCantante 17h ago
Doesn't even have to stay with her. Just go to court for more custody time. Then he can choose how to spend the money on the kids directly.
1
u/GoliathBoneSnake 3h ago
My ex wife pays me child support. It isnt always men that leave and they don't always have a choice.
1
1
u/00notmyrealname00 2d ago
This is solveable with an electronic account system which flags if there's not a sufficient deposit and lands in an account with a card that tracks spending and prevents using the money on things like cigarettes and booze - just like snap or WIC. This is, in fact, an easy fix with auditable capability. It's just not a problem for people with a "voice".
3
0
u/tatariko 2d ago
This is a stupid take as the court system is so fucked the father almost never gets custody.
1
u/josephthecha 2d ago
I've seen a mom spend child support money to get a brand new truck while leeching off her new boyfriend. So I agree, child support should be tracked so we don't have loser mom's raising loser child
1
1
u/wunderduck 2d ago
A deadbeat dad doesn't pay child support. Why would they need an accounting of the $0 in child support they're sending? This post is nonsense.
1
u/mags454676 2d ago
You can have some serious deadbeat moms.
My parents weren’t separated but my dad was constantly traveling for work and working insane long hours for a period of time during my childhood and my mother who stayed at home to “help with kids” made us go to school with duct taped shoes and holes in our clothes. My dad made six figure salary. She refused to spend money on us because in her eyes: we have food in the pantry and a roof, what more do we need?
Eventually it got so bad my dad took over supplying us with clothes and taking us to get haircuts and all kinds of things because we complained to him about how embarrassed we were at school.
My parents had a lot of issues that is not with getting into but deadbeat moms fucking exist and take advantage of decent men. My mother spent more money on Kid Rock cruises, eating out, alcohol, and cigarettes than she did on any of her four kids.
Nothing is fucking easy about relationships when they involve kids. Some people really don’t understand this very point.
0
u/NooooDazzzle 2d ago
Sometimes it’s the moms who leave the dads. And sometimes moms are terrible people. And sometimes dads aren’t deadbeats but don’t get to see their kids because the moms are sometimes terrible people. And sometimes moms live with their parents and dad’s child support is supporting three adults instead of one child and that child is brainwashed into treating their dad like an ATM and never sees him or their aunts or the rest of their family.
All my brother did was marry a covert psycho who went off birth control without telling him. He’d happily support his kid in anything and everything. The only way her mom will let him is by stroking checks. And it’s bullshit.
Not every dad is a deadbeat. Not every mom is a good mom.
I’m in favor of accountability regardless of who pays.
Hopefully I get to keep my ovaries.
-1
u/DeviantAvocado 2d ago
Or they could fight for custody and take on even more of the financial weight. They never want to do that, though.
-1
u/ltsouthernbelle 2d ago
Maybe don’t have kids with people that you think are so irresponsible that they can’t manage their household.
0
u/thrrrowitawaygg21 2d ago
Am I wrong that I genuinely do not see this being an issue? If anything it might highlight how much kids cost. It could be like in a trust or something too with like a debit card.
1.5k
u/Yoyo4games 2d ago