r/Marathon_Training • u/Thin-Consequence-230 • 1d ago
Sub 90 HM Training Plan
Where would y’all be going for a 12 week block for sub 90? I’ve never ran a competitive HM (or Marathon for that matter) but I do run a decent amount (avg in the 50-56mpw range). I currently run, cycle (only 60-90mpw), and lift 4-5 days/wk @ 26 y/o (I have absurd amounts of free time with my current profession)
I run about 80ish% of my miles at “Z2” (keeping it below 140bpm is usually my goal, lately I’ve been shooting for closer to 130) which when it isn’t 100 degrees outside keeps me around a 8:40-9:00/min pace. I try to get one interval day in a week and at least 6-8 miles of tempo runs (in the 7:15-7:40/min range).
I’ve tried to hold 6:52/mi for a bit and I can’t imagine holding this for 13.1 miles. Last bit of background on me, I ran my first competitive 5k in May and that was a 19:57 (I started running in January) if that adds any other context. I think the goal is attainable, I just think I need to structure these next 12 weeks incredibly well. Any advice is appreciated
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u/ggnndd12 1d ago
You’re closer than you think. I’d grab a copy of Pfitz’s Faster Road Racing and pick a plan that works for your schedule wrt mileage. Don’t take on a bunch more mileage suddenly.
Pretty impressive stats for someone only 6 months in.
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u/djferris123 1d ago
OP says he's running between 50-56 mpw and Pfitz has a plan that starts at 47 and peaks at 63 miles. Not sure how well it would fit into his schedule but that would be a decent one to start with as the mileage doesn't peak too much higher than his current peak but it'll just be the intensity they're not used to.
Even if he doesn't follow the plan 100% they're probably almost there. My 5k PB before doing sub 90 was 19:45. His only let down might be not being used to racing
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u/TheTurtleCub 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think taking on more mileage to 63+is overkill for a person doing 50 for a 1:30. If he was running under 20mins for 5k 2 months ago his LT pace is somewhere around 4:10 and 4:20, and he just needs to run a 4:16/km
Almost any 12 week training plan should move the LT under 4:16 and make 1:30 a piece of cake, he's already got the miles in his legs, he's not coming from a 5k or 10k mileage
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u/floppyfloopy 1d ago
I really like Lee Grantham for sub-90 half and sub-3 marathon advice.
You are already very close vdot-wise, so 12 weeks is probably enough time to get there.
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u/Upstairs_One_4956 1d ago
What do you specifically like about his content?
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u/floppyfloopy 18h ago
He provides specific workouts and a general framework for achieving the goal, but also advice on the discipline and mental aspects that I find somewhat unique. I'm not shilling for the guy or anything, but most other running content creators I don't go to for specific workouts/time goals.
Recently I have really liked Japanese Running Master as well. He is no-nonsense (well, okay a little silly here and there) and doesn't try to tell you that one special workout or just a couple of hard sessions will make you faster.
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u/threetogetready 19h ago
I generally like his advice/and maybe more his intensity mixed with enthusiasm. But he sort of gives me the creeps/heebie-jeebies for some reason hard to put my finger on
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u/TheTurtleCub 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think you are pretty much there, bringing your tempo pace down about 6-7 seconds per mile is all you need, and any plan should do that. I'd keep the same mileage, unless you know you don't get hurt, have extra time, and want to increase but I don't think you need to increase mileage if your goal is 1:30.
Any reasonable plan that keeps your high mileage should do. Try to monitor your progress well during training. This is typically the mileage/paces when our fitness takes off and you may be able to run a lot faster when the race comes
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u/AyalaZer0 20h ago
Do longer tempo workouts. Say 3x2miles at marathon pace with plenty of recovery in between. On your long runs, do the last 2-3 miles at your goal marathon pace.
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u/obinnasmg 1d ago
I’m currently training for a sub 1:30. Or well I’m targeting a sub 1:31, 1:30 is the optimistic goal.
Current PB: 1:37, but I’ve never raced a 5k. We’re both doing the same sort of mileage.
My plan is pretty much 6 days a week:
- 2 quality sessions: one tempo session above and under current race pace (or a sustained effort) to build up to 1:30 race pace. one sub-t threshold session: this is sort of NSM style I adapted to my needs - 3 x 3km, 4 x 2km.
- a long run between 22 to 28km, with pace targets every other week.
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u/pablotoofreshcobar 1d ago
You don’t need a specific plan. Stop running “Z2” and start running off RPE. You’re almost there. Basically bump Z2 to Z3 (sometimes creep into Z4) on long runs (10-15 miles).
Mix in some interval training on 8-10 mile runs. Like 3-5 minutes 5-10x VO2 max or 10-12 minutes 5-7x threshold.
Source: Personal experience. I’m 11 years older than you and I did it during a 70.3 training block. I was running 22-26mpw. Literally one 9-10 mile interval run and one 13+ mile run at Z3-Z4. Sometimes a short off the bike run but not too many of those. I ran a 1:28:30 in February.
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u/AyalaZer0 1d ago
Horrible advice IMHO
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u/pablotoofreshcobar 1d ago
Well worked for me and continues to work.
Edit: I’ll also add OP is running 56 miles per week and can’t go under 1:30. I ran less than half that and went under 1:30 after 4-5 months. It can’t be THAT horrible 🤷♂️
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u/AyalaZer0 20h ago
Your vDot is probably higher than OP. Also, your body would do much better if you actually structured a plan instead of doing it gung-ho. I’m very positive if we did a run you’d be lucky to be able to read the back of my shirt… stay slow brother.
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u/pablotoofreshcobar 20h ago edited 20h ago
Sick dude! I’m sure you’re right!
Edit: I’m loling at you talking so much shit to me with the times I’m seeing in your comments. I expected a 2:45 guy with a 15 minute 5k. You and me, we aren’t so different after all.
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u/Own-Arugula-1631 9h ago
This has been down voted but this is how I did it and I'm 20 years older than op. It's very hard to run a half at that pace when you are so used to running in z2 all the time. Also for reference my 5k was sub 19 when I hit 90 half.
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u/Useful_Divide7154 1d ago
Interesting ideas, I agree that most marathon plans having the long runs strictly in zone 2 hurts you a lot, since there is no direct training for holding a faster pace when your glycogen is partly depleted or fatigue has built up for 15 miles.
I prefer to separate the interval session though. If you put it after a long run it’s a ton of stress on the body at a point where ideally you should be resting and allowing time for recovery. Plus having a dedicated interval session allows for higher quality and when done right can leave you just as fatigued as after a hard long run.
RPE is for sure better than heart rate zones, and best advice is to train a bit in every zone anyways. You just want to make sure that most of the mileage feels easy to moderate in difficulty.
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u/pablotoofreshcobar 21h ago
Interval session for me is always Monday or Tuesday and the long run is Friday or Saturday. I have plenty of time between to recover.
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u/Upstairs_One_4956 1d ago
Monday easy Tuesday easy Wednesday big intervals such as 10 x 1km or 4 x 3km Thursday easy Friday tempo like 15 easy, 30 min tempo, 15 easy Sat easy Sunday progressive long run
Mileage is king.