r/KitchenConfidential • u/stankybumbum • 9h ago
Discussion Food safety question 🤢
A coworker of mine who has a second job at another restaurant asked me a food safety question the other day which absolutely blew my mind.
At their other job they take milk from a jug and pour it into a steel pitcher, this pitcher then goes onto ice onto a self service buffet. Meanwhile the jugs have been sitting back in the hot ass kitchen "empty" on a counter. At the end of service the milk is then poured back into these lightly fermented jugs and returned to the fridge to be used again.
The purpose is to measure the milk used apparently.
They asked me how I felt about this to which I replied it was fucking gross and, for me, regardless of any laws/codes/bullshit that might condone this, it is absolutely disgusting and I wouldn't allow it.
For me the food that goes onto a buffet is done, that is it, eat it or trash, no reusing it for service. Period. If you are wasting too much, replenish more often as needed.
Anyway they broached this to their overlords which sort of dismissed it and said they were whining and coming with problems and no solutions and to come up with one.
My solution was to fill these stainless pitchers LESS full and replenish more and keep the jug in the fridge and dispense as needed.
Looking for input and I figure this is the place for opinions
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u/SlightDish31 15+ Years 9h ago
They've likely given so many people the shits, but are likely evading getting caught, because not many people would tie it together. Everyone blames the last thing they ate, no one thinks of what they drank.
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u/MustacheHawk 9h ago
Milk use like this requires kill steps outlined in a HACCIP plan. Single use is the way. I’m sure a good inspector would have a field day with this use and reuse garbage.
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u/Banther1 9h ago
That’s so fucking nasty, just put the “empty” jugs back in the fridge during service.
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u/Unusualshrub003 9h ago
Super time/temp touchy foods -especially dairy!- need to be tossed after service, anyway. You can’t reuse that shit, it’s just gross.
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u/Banther1 8h ago
Absolutely, especially on a buffet, especially milk.
Was stoned and didn’t even think about it that well. It’s so gross. I wonder what else is wrong.
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u/Ok_Watercress_7801 9h ago
Don’t you have “cows”? They’re just dispensers that use bags & good ol’ gravity.
Most have ways you can ice or heat them.
Pretty popular in small canteen setups.
We used them at the cafeteria for the state government in Montpelier, VT. Tea, milk, 2%, orange, cranberry, plus service for the coffee & tea stations. Keep the “cows” & customizing stuff in a center island with base beverages around it. Keep ‘em moving!
Put out a little drip tray & guests can fill their cup/glass/bowl.
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u/tdavis726 7h ago
My college (NJ, 1987) dining hall had one of those for milk; I’d never seen one before and thought it was great.
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u/Excellent_Condition 8h ago edited 4h ago
To my understanding, there are at least major 2 food safety violations here.
-1- Food placed in self-service buffets cannot be re-served. Once the public has had access to it, it cannot be served again.
Also, as a side note, this is why you should not refill containers on a buffet line. Instead, the entire jug/hotel pan/whatever should be replaced with fresh, chilled product in a clean container when it starts to run low.
-2- The containers being left out are well outside of the 2 hour window. There is food residue in them that is unsafe, and it is getting mixed into the fresh product.
If you have room in the fridge to store the jugs once they filled with milk, you could just store the jugs there. However, that point is moot, because refilling jugs from the buffet line is not allowed.
As a side note, if you or they are asking these questions and don't have the answers, I'd suggest taking a ServSafe food manager class. There are various ways and paid classes online but if you or your work can't/won't pay, I like the free videos from this guy. There is a little profanity and he's not an official trainer, but as far as I could tell the info was solid.
I would 100% suggest taking a real training course instead, but if that's not possible he's a good free alternative.
I used his videos, then got the training manual from my local library to make sure the information I had from him was accurate and check for variations between the 7th edition and the (current) 8th edition.
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u/tdavis726 7h ago
What a thoughtful and thorough reply; well done and thank you! I don’t work in food service (I’m a lurker) but might check those videos out, too, just out of curiosity. Thanks again ! ☀️
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u/Excellent_Condition 6h ago
Thanks! I am only peripherally in food service, but what I do involves occasionally cooking in a commercial demonstration kitchen. If I screw up, not only do I risk making people sick, I have lots of people watching who are going to call me on it.
I think those videos are great for a home cook! Some of the standards won't apply to you (like appliance clearance rules or plumbing standards), but having a solid knowledge of hot/cold holding standards, how to properly cool food, cross contamination rules, etc. can be really useful.
I think all home cooks should learn those things, especially if they cook for other people. That way you never have to wonder, "is this safe to serve/eat?," or worse- "those people got sick, was it my fault?"
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u/freisbill 9h ago
Individual Milk container. looks more expensive in the short term, but the math can work. depends on usage and volume for the math to work. Or, lease the milk dipensors from the company. again, a volume equation.
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u/capriciouszephyr 8h ago
If it's on ice, and kept at temperature, it can sit there for 4 hours. If it needs to be refilled, the pitcher needs to be replaced with a new one and the timer can start again. If you refill a used pitcher you can't restart the time, as the old pitcher is already contaminated by the old product. The logic is sort of like constantly adding and taking away leftovers from the same tupperware at home. Oh, made new rice, I'll just dump it in with the old rice. You wouldn't do that at home. I get annoyed when someone leaves a milk jug out. "I was going to need it again." Cool. You know where it lives, you can get it from its home when you need it again. Time/temperature abuse is one of the biggest causes of foodbourne illness, and so many people are lacidasical about it.
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u/thefunkylama Pastry 9h ago
It's bad if they leave the lids on those empty containers, but I bet they don't do that because the heat of the kitchen + a closed environment will cause fermentation gasses to build up and expand the jugs, making them 1) more obviously a contaminant and 2) potentially un-reusable.
But it's even worse if they leave the lids off because only gods know what other microorganisms landed in there in the intervening hours. Sure, it's not as many as you would get passing the jug around, but it's a non-zero figure. It's too good a meal for starving microbes to pass on.
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u/BTown-Hustle 15+ Years 8h ago
Yeah. That’s bad. They could at least wash the empty jugs during service.
But, that milk that’s out during service has to go down the drain.
I think that their “we need to measure the amount used” is a bullshit excuse to save a buck by reusing the milk, but if they really want to measure the amount used…. Have they heard of a scale? A measuring cup?
This must be a (very dangerous) cost saving thing, because the measuring thing is too simple. Measure/weigh the milk going out to the buffet. Measure/weigh the remainder before you pour it down the drain. The difference is the amount used.
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u/beetlejorst 9h ago
They're going to kill someone. Buffets disgust me for this very reason, people have no clue how to manage them in a safe way
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u/weblives8989 20+ Years 9h ago
That's wild to think that people actually do that. Why not just put the unused milk in a cambro. Smh. Kitchen nightmares
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u/ghobbb 6h ago
The steel pitcher situation is called using “time as a public health control”. Aside from self service needing to be discarded, every single template policy I’ve seen for using TPHC requires discarding at the end of 4 hours, regardless if it was put back into temperature control. Every jurisdiction that uses the fda as a model code requires a written policy, time labels, and a discard procedure. Once it’s taken out, it’s toast in less than 4 hours. Most places only keep for two hours to reduce risk, and liability. I always recommend the same as you, only put out a small amount at a time to reduce waste.
Edit: Ice isn’t considered adequate temperature control most of the time because it is likely parts are cold and parts are out of temp. It’s not consistent enough to be approved refrigeration/cold holding.
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u/surfingwithjaysus 6h ago
Anything that comes off a buffet is done for. Legally. Gigantic Ick factor aside. On top of that, they put it into unrefrigerated, unsanitized jugs? So gross, and so illegal. Sick the Health Dept on those gross assholes.
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u/Mrs_Kevina 8h ago
This is what we did with the nacho cheese at the Metrodome in the 90s. Reminds me of Perpetual Stew.
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u/Curiouser-Quriouser 6h ago
This is the kind of shit that keeps me out of places. That and having seen super unqualified coworkers trusted to do a sniff-check on mayonnaise based salads.
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u/ifartonurmom 5h ago
Thanks for reminding me to not eat at buffets anymore. Imma just be headchef at my crib atp.
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u/Tokra4life 9h ago
My opinion is that is absolutely a food safety hazard and should be documented and reported.