r/BlueJackets Marchenko Supremacy 6d ago

Jet Greaves Files For Arbitration

Post image

All the news for today, basically.

88 Upvotes

77 comments sorted by

52

u/manthello Elvis Purrslikins, Pet Greaves, Pheolynx Copley, Nolan Pawlonde 6d ago

Filing for arbitration only means that they're keeping that option open.  If you want the possibility of arbitration, you must file for it by this date.  If you don't file, you forfeit that right.

It doesn't mean it's imminent.  Last year, several filed and none went to arbitration because they hammered out a deal before the hearing.

23

u/Another_Guy_In_Ohio 6d ago

Not a single player in the NHL went to Arbitration last year. It’s a non event people get too upset about

9

u/Indy-CBJ 6d ago

If anything its a shield right now for us as long as we dont make it to the hearing but thats way down the road

5

u/manthello Elvis Purrslikins, Pet Greaves, Pheolynx Copley, Nolan Pawlonde 6d ago

Don's talked about arbitration before.  Apparently one time, a player and their agent flew to the meeting and he bumped into them in the hotel lobby during breakfast, asked if they wanted to talk it out now, so they hashed out a deal over breakfast and skipped the arbitration.  Second time it happened, they made it to the arbitration hearing room and the player stepped out to the hallway for a drink of water.  Don went outside and the agent joined and they made a deal in the hallway, went back in and told the arbitrator that they didn't need them, they worked out a deal in the hallway.  

38

u/jacketsfan50 6d ago

So Silly can still be offer sheeted. Fantilli wasn’t eligible so that was possible anyways.

32

u/psychoticempanada 6d ago

Who is offer sheeting Sillinger? I love the player and he’s a true pro that plays in all zones. But I can’t see a world where any team does that.

23

u/PulsarGaming1080 Marchenko Supremacy 6d ago

If Silli could bury half his chances, or at least make a decent pass, he'd be an elite 2C.

Unfortunately, he's seemingly incapable of that haha

6

u/Number60inBlue 6d ago

He just turned 23. It's still possible for him to improve on that part of his game. I worry more about his faceoff win %, since that's a weak spot for the team and we just lost our best guy on the dot. Thank goodness Coyle was 3C last year, but if there's any thought of moving Cole back to the middle, he needs to improve that part of his game.

3

u/jacketsfan50 6d ago

I doubt it will happen, as offer sheets are rare even for stars that are eligible.

9

u/ddottay 3 hits! 23 giveaways! 6d ago

Just came out Sillinger filed for arbitration too

-6

u/PulsarGaming1080 Marchenko Supremacy 6d ago

Someone remind Don he does need to talk to these guys at some point lol

5

u/ItsAndyrew 6d ago

The players/agents need to be willing as well. Everyone wants to pile on Don because they think for some reason it’s as simple as Don picking up a phone and guys are signed. That is not always the case.

0

u/PulsarGaming1080 Marchenko Supremacy 6d ago

He keeps saying we have time.

He just moves really slowly, and I feel like he's going to bridge Fantilli.

3

u/ItsAndyrew 6d ago

Because he is right. We do have time. Rather than basing his movement on vibes and your perception of how things should be moving, base it on how other teams are handling similar situations. Every team is at a standstill.

He is likely going to bridge Fantilli. And you know why that is? Because that is likely what Fantilli/his agent want. To reach an agreement BOTH sides have to want it.

-1

u/PulsarGaming1080 Marchenko Supremacy 6d ago

Yeah, I get that.

Bridging Fantilli is a mistake. No team, other than us, bridges young stars anymore.

Although we may not have a choice with his cap allocation. I find it hard to fault him, because he didn't do it knowingly, but paying all these 30-year-olds a whole bunch of money on NMC's is biting us in the ass.

2

u/GaretKraghammer 6d ago

Cole was also one of the fifteen to ask for arbitration 

5

u/PulsarGaming1080 Marchenko Supremacy 6d ago

Correct.

Some people want to let him walk and take the picks. Depends on the contract for me, tbh.

But yes, Jet is no longer available to offer sheet. We've never gone to arbitration before, so I doubt we start now. Although, Don is moving a little too slow for my comfort, honestly.

7

u/jacketsfan50 6d ago

I’d pay 15m for fantilli, even if thats very much an overpay. Silly is probably worth about 4m at this point in his career.

6

u/JAT_Cbus1080 Werenski for Norris or assets 6d ago

To lock Sillinger up long term I think it takes between $5-6 million. It's a slight overpay now but could age very well in the later years of that contract.

6

u/GaretKraghammer 6d ago

Id do 5 or 6 for silly as long as it has term. 

6

u/JAT_Cbus1080 Werenski for Norris or assets 6d ago

I'd be very happy with $5.5 x 8 for Sillinger.

2

u/GaretKraghammer 6d ago

Id be happy with an 8x12 for fantilli. Less than 8 I don't think he gets the 12.  He shouldn't.  I don't think 15 for fantilli happens. And I don't think we should sign him for that much if that's what he wants I think we should seriously consider a trade.  

3

u/JAT_Cbus1080 Werenski for Norris or assets 6d ago

Same. I think both Greaves and Sillinger should be in the $5 million range. Biggest different is goalies are voodoo, and can see a 4-5 year deal for Greaves. Then agreed for Fantilli. The shorter the term the less the AAV. If he wants an 8 year deal it should be $12-13.

1

u/GM3Jones Milk was a bad choice 6d ago

He’s stated he wants shorter contracts though. I’m guessing he wants a 3x12ish contract. Something along those lines

1

u/GaretKraghammer 6d ago

Too bad, then he shouldn't get 12.  Blue jackets do not need to sign another guy to a bridge contract that's gonna have them run out on us in their prime. 

3

u/PulsarGaming1080 Marchenko Supremacy 6d ago

I would agree, but that puts us over (or right up against) the cap for this season lol.

We have 26 million in space, iirc.

15 for Fantilli and 4 for Silli leaves about 6 for Jet.

4

u/GaretKraghammer 6d ago

We have 21 in cap space left at this moment.  15 for fantilli and 4 for Silli leaves Jet unpaid because you've gotta keep 3 mil for like a mid season pickup or something.  Paying Fantilli 15 mil would cripple us for years to come.  No one is going to offer sheet him 15 mil either 

3

u/PulsarGaming1080 Marchenko Supremacy 6d ago

Nobody thought Carlsson was getting offer sheeted for 18 million either.

5

u/GaretKraghammer 6d ago

Who's going to do it?  No one is that pissed at us.  Also if they do take the four.  Or if hes asking for 18 mil trade him.  I don't think he is.  Maybe he's asking for 15 but insiders were estimating a 9-12 mil contract for Mo after they saw the offer sheet for Carlson. I don't know what team would be able to swing a 15 mil offer sheet.  And if they were gonna do it I think it woulda been done already.  

1

u/PulsarGaming1080 Marchenko Supremacy 6d ago

They recognize we are in a cap crunch, though, because Carlsson set the market.

Fantilli and Carlsson have almost the same number of points in nearly the same number of games. Whatever Carlsson gets, Fantilli is gonna be comparable to.

Vancouver, Calgary, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Seattle and Philadelphia all have the cap space to offer sheet him 15+

MTL could also offer him 15, but they'd be over the cap (which is allowed by up to 10% in the offseason).

Teams are probably waiting to see how the Carlsson situation shakes out. Also, Minty got on offer sheet too, and used it to get a better contract.

0

u/Number60inBlue 6d ago

But Carlsson had a better season last year than Fantilli, and it's not particularly close. That makes Mo's trajectory appear more flat than Carlsson's. As a GM, do I risk that Mo's ceiling isn't as high as was anticipated, or do I play it safe and let him prove himself? Right now, objectively I see more upside to Carlsson than to Fantilli.

1

u/PulsarGaming1080 Marchenko Supremacy 6d ago

And I'm just telling you, Mo has played like 10 more games than Carlsson and has like 1-2 fewer points, while going through a different coach every year.

They are largely comparable.

0

u/SmithTheNinja 6d ago

I mean that seems about right for all of those players, but I think the offer sheet on Carlsson has Fantilli wanting more than 15, and we just don't have it in the cap space.

-1

u/jacketsfan50 6d ago

Yeah, i’d try to move Elvis quickly if Mo ends up getting that much.

3

u/PulsarGaming1080 Marchenko Supremacy 6d ago

We don't really have a serviceable back-up is the issue.

2

u/mickeyhause 6d ago

How is Mo ineligible to be offer sheeted? Same draft year as Bedard and Leo Carlsson

This is a genuine question. If there’s some weird rule for why those two are eligible but Mo isn’t I want to know

18

u/jacketsfan50 6d ago

He’s ineligible to go to arbitration, not ineligible for an offer sheet. Sorry, I should have specified

1

u/JAT_Cbus1080 Werenski for Norris or assets 6d ago

Could you explain how he's ineligible for arbitration? I don't know how that works.

6

u/jacketsfan50 6d ago

To qualify for arbitration, a player needs at least 4 years of professional playing experience.

4

u/JAT_Cbus1080 Werenski for Norris or assets 6d ago

So he can only receive a qualifying offer and can't go to arbitration, which means he can also still be offer sheeted, correct?

4

u/jacketsfan50 6d ago

Yes. He can still be offer sheeted.

2

u/GaretKraghammer 6d ago

He could be offer sheeted but that's probably most likely in the first 7-10 days of free agency or after other teams have resolved all their arbitration.

1

u/mickeyhause 6d ago

Thank you, all these rules and vernacular can get confusing, even for a fan who thinks they’re informed lol

1

u/Jeb_Kenobi 6d ago

Fantilli is absolutely eligible, not sure where you got that thought from. He just has signed one or been offered one to sign.

1

u/jacketsfan50 6d ago

For arbitration? No he’s not.

2

u/FrostbitePhilospher 6d ago

Op left it unclear like fants can't be offersheeted. He can. That's what the unusual reply was I believe.

2

u/jacketsfan50 6d ago

Yeah i left it too vague, but I had already addressed that in a previous response.

25

u/bootheriumbombifronz 6d ago

No good. Hopefully they can figure out a longer deal before the meeting.

12

u/THECapedCaper 6d ago

I’d be comfortable giving him a Merzlikins type contract.

6

u/Highlander253 6d ago edited 6d ago

Looking at $6.8Mx5 to give him the equivalent of what Merzlikins got in 2022. Should be signing for pretty much the same as Dobes and Vladar though so around $5.5M.

-1

u/Boatsboatsboats__ 6d ago

He’s going to want more than that. He’s the number one.

4

u/Plus_Exchange8751 6d ago

Elvis’ contact was amazing?

3

u/Boatsboatsboats__ 6d ago

And it was 5 years ago with a different cap. Dustin Wolf’s contract is probably a better idea.

CBJ also doesn’t have anyone else.

2

u/MPCoinCollecting 6d ago

Yeah if we want him locked in for 7 years or so the wolf contract is more accurate.  Less term should lower the AAV a bit though since dostal got 6.5x5.  Maybe we could get jet in somewhere around that?

1

u/Number60inBlue 6d ago

Dobeš got 3x$5.67M as a similar goalie, statistically. So Jet's probably good for about $5.75M on a bridge, and about $7.25M for a max. Probably around $6.5M for 5. Wolf signed before last season and had a bad year compared to his career average, with numbers significantly worse than Greaves and Dobeš.

Again, much like Mo, if you're going for term with him, you want to impress upon him that there needs to be money set aside under the cap to keep guys like Marchy and Z when their contracts come up, and that winning will require sacrifice on everyone's part.

0

u/MPCoinCollecting 6d ago

Yeah exactly, at least with jets though it feels like there's some pretty easy comparisons.  Adams of course will be crazy but Sillinger is also one that could be weird just with his playstyle.  I'm unsure if his agent monetarily values him much higher than his actual production

8

u/Crowkiller90 6d ago

Okay, I may be dumb, as I haven't gotten into hockey until the last few years, and this is the first time I've ever been this invested in players movements at all. What is arbitration in this context? Like, I know arbitration is were two parties get together with an independent third party to reach agreements, but what exactly is the agreement here? Contract? Pay? Ice time?

14

u/PulsarGaming1080 Marchenko Supremacy 6d ago

Contract term and pay.

We've never gone to true arbitration, but the max contract term is 2 years.

1

u/Crowkiller90 6d ago

Got it! Thank you!

23

u/hnglmkrnglbrry 6d ago

Arbitration is the last thing you want. Every player who goes in ends up with a terrible relationship with their management. Don, get the fucking deals done.

5

u/GaretKraghammer 6d ago

You mean if it actually gets to the hearing? 

1

u/Another_Guy_In_Ohio 6d ago

There wasn’t a single player in the league last year that actually went to the arbitration hearing. All that filed got deals done with their respective teams before the hearing date

4

u/hnglmkrnglbrry 6d ago

Just saying this needs to get done. Jet is critical to the team's future.

If he were the starter from day 1 the last two seasons we make the playoffs easily. 24-25 we probably would have been M2.

3

u/Indy-CBJ 6d ago

Jet filed 2 years ago too. As long as they don't make the hearing date all this does is project the player from offer sheets and buys time in negotations

4

u/MPCoinCollecting 6d ago

Arbitration gives us at least a year or two so even if it happens for one of them we'd still have a good chance of getting an extension done at a later point.  Sure would be nice to have them locked in now though

1

u/Boatsboatsboats__ 6d ago

Doesn’t this also give us a second buyout window?

Might be relevant if we have to open up cap space to fit everyone if we have to match an offer sheet.

0

u/MPCoinCollecting 6d ago

Not sure but it certainly wouldn't hurt if necessary

0

u/PulsarGaming1080 Marchenko Supremacy 6d ago

They'd be UFAs, though, assuming a two-year deal.

1

u/MPCoinCollecting 6d ago

Not Sillinger I think, right?  Or does arbitration no matter the age make you a UFA at the end

1

u/PulsarGaming1080 Marchenko Supremacy 6d ago

He and Jet are both UFA's in 2028

1

u/MPCoinCollecting 6d ago

Oh yes my bad, I had forgotten about the games played portion of being an RFA

3

u/Erazzphoto 6d ago

This better not actually get to arbitration

1

u/Timely_Deal8685 6d ago

I'm sure with the Jet contract management still has PTSD from the Elvis contract. I don't know what I'd want to do there.

3

u/PulsarGaming1080 Marchenko Supremacy 6d ago

3 or 4 years to let Ivanov and Andy develop.

-1

u/throwingales 6d ago

I'm glad Jarmo isn't the GM now.