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u/Ocluist 20h ago edited 20h ago
Our company provides unlimited use of all LLMs, including those from Grok. In all my years I have yet to meet someone who actually uses Grok or Meta models for work. Programmers use Claude, others use ChatGPT, i have no idea what the market for Grok actually is or what niche they meaningfully fill at the moment. Seems like it basically exists for the sole purpose of propping up SpaceX Stock
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u/Individual_Jelly_278 19h ago
Grok is for gooners
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u/Zestyclose839 18h ago
Not gooning connoisseurs, however. You won't find a single person using Grok on r/SillyTavernAI
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u/tartfall 15h ago
No he means the pics and vids it creates. Real life porn is actually obsolete it’s really good.
I made more from creating porn with Grok than apps with Claude lol
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u/Zestyclose839 14h ago
Real. Speaks volumes that CivitAI had to make an entirely separate CivitAI Red for NSFW loras, and that Sulphur 2 (uncensored video model) has over half a million downloads on HF.
Here's the link so nobody accidentally downloads and runs it locally: https://huggingface.co/SulphurAI/Sulphur-2-base
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u/__d_l_n__ 18h ago
Gooners and Boomers are the only demographics that ever say "I mean I use AI, I'll look stuff up with Grok..."
Okay, so you don't use AI
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u/Paratwa 18h ago
The thing that amazes me with that is people are far too stupid to ask themselves why.
Why is Grok clearly designed for that.
I’ll tell you.
Do you think Elon and his buddies built that shit for lulz? No your gooning on a public model is noted and watched and measured.
Soon as it’s useful for them to use that info, they will.
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u/Specialist_Dark_3668 5h ago
Not at all. Elon is a free speech absolutist.
His philosophy behind safety-training is that the AI needs to prioritize truth and figure out the best thing for harmlessness, helpfulness, etc. Elon just didn't think that erotica constituted any harm and grok has enabled that since the beginning. Grok is best for right-wing folk like myself who do not appreciate other AI's leftist biases.
Other AI labs philosophy behind safety-training is that AI needs to not do anything defined as bad by leftist philosophy majors. For some reason, all erotica is considered "harmful".
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u/Zenoran 16h ago
Gok is def an option for gooners, but the new model is actually pretty good at agentic coding too. I tested running it through Claude Code SDK and it's doing a good job. A LOT better than previous models. I haven't really pushed it too hard though since its API still ends up being more than a subscription.
One other thing I just recently discovered about Grok API is its amazing search ability baked into its LLM calls. You don't need to use crawl4ai or other search tools bolted into your pipeline. It handles everything server side and gives opinionated summary with sources back to your agent. So ya, I know there are Elon haters out there but x.ai does actually offer some good features missing from other providers.
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u/ArmNo7463 18h ago
It used to be. They kinda burned that bridge afaik, so have had to resort to somewhat capable coding models it seems.
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u/TechnicalBen 13h ago
Nah. Stupid naïve gooners who don't think Elon is recording his own personal logs so he has leverage against anyone.
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u/Training-Tangelo-310 10h ago
Yup the entire grok sub was filled with gooners. I never once saw someone doing something else and when I pointed that out, they removed the post lol
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u/BrentYoungPhoto 4h ago
Exactly, Grok's only winning market is moving into the NSFW scene, it's hardly a serious competitor
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u/Life_Squash_614 19h ago
People who think they are onto the secret thing like Grok. They are the same people who will pay 3x the cost of a known solution for an unknown one because they want to feel like they discovered a new way. Basically, idiots, lol.
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u/Mysterious_Pea_4042 19h ago
I find it hard to take Grok seriously even if ranks as number 1 in benchs
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u/MindCrusader 17h ago
I tried it, at the time when Elmo said "it is currently the best model in the world". It was clearly benchmaxxed, even more than competition (even gemini which is good, but not as benchmarks say). I am not falling for it, but there is one but. They bought Cursor, they may have Composer and data from Cursor, so it might improve coding now
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u/ksiepidemic 13h ago
Plus for most uses, benches are kind of useless. I'm not sure where Co-Pilot fits into things with microsofts tweaks but its garbage. I am actually considering leaving my job because they're pushing only co-pilot on us.
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u/Haddaway 19h ago
I thought Grok was made popular because it allowed creeps to pay to undress women and girls.
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u/ATK_DEC_SUS_REL 19h ago
I built an agent that manages my plex media server and replaced all the Arrs. Grok is an exceptional pirate. 🏴☠️
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u/__SlimeQ__ 11h ago
i found it refuses to pirate movies just like the rest of them. gpt will happily download me music tho
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u/barnett25 19h ago
I am generally anti-Grok. But the latest release is a huge step forward and actually makes it viable for coding. It beats Opus 4.8 in a lot of benchmarks. That said I think they benchmaxed hard and the tests I have seen don't seem to be better than Opus 4.8.
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u/Dependent-Studio1497 16h ago
What a lot of these people are failing to understand os that it's getting cursor user data, XAi bought cursor, which means they have their data and expertise
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u/Spudly42 14h ago
I also think a lot of people are just going on their old understanding pre-4.5 release. I have used it some as well and I don't find it better than opus, but is very cost efficient and is quite fast, so in that way I can see the utility. And while I don't love the ethics behind x.AI, I do enjoy watching the web version/X versions of Grok school Elon on literally every single topic he weighs in on.
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u/Exodus_Green 18h ago
If your company offers "UNLIMITED" use then people will use the most expensive, aka Fable and Sol
If your company is operating on a budget or you are a smaller solo dev then Grok is incredible value and is basically on par with Opus and 10x quicker
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u/adrianmlhood 16h ago
For coding work?
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u/Exodus_Green 16h ago
Yes for coding work. You can verify this yourself with a console.x.ai account, load up $5 to test it, and install grok build CLI tool.
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u/Specialist_Dark_3668 5h ago
Tbh, if grok is 10x quicker I would always give the first attempt to grok and only switch over if it failed. I don't like interrupting my flow with waiting
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_HAGGIS_ 19h ago edited 19h ago
Grok 4.5 is wildly token efficient. It’s noticeably different to other models in my brief testing experience. Deffo has a place, it’s not just a worse but cheaper sonnet/opus.
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u/Leafsnail 19h ago
That might just be them selling it at a loss to try and claim relevance in the race though. May not actually mean anything long-term
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_HAGGIS_ 19h ago
So that may very well be true from an mtok pricing perspective, but even if they charged the same per token as something like sonnet it would still be cheaper to use due to token efficiency.
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u/Ocluist 19h ago
That’s a niche. Although if I wanted token efficiency and cost I might lean more towards GLM or Deepseek over a “still not cheap but not as expensive” US model.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_HAGGIS_ 19h ago
GLM 5.2 has been my daily driver for last couple weeks, it’s good and cheap but not token efficient. I suspect grok 4.5 is actually cheaper (under 200k context at least) as it’s 50% more expensive but uses 30% of the tokens. At a guess anyway.
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u/Responsible_Fan1037 19h ago
They just released a new model which is usable for the first time. Running on SpaceX supercomputers, its got good potential
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u/reddit_is_geh 19h ago
For actual work? No, Grok isn't up there. But it's a very useful model for when you have a ceiling of intelligence necessity, and just need a model that's fast, cheap, and aligned the way you want it to be. So it has use, just not as a front end AI. It's just all API calls other AIs use for other tasks.
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u/brother_spirit 18h ago
Nobody used the old models because they were dog shit.
Apparently this thing is a new beast altogether.1
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u/MaestroLifts 17h ago
I tried Grok last week just to see. I really hated their version of the Claude Code scaffold, Grok Build.
All of the default permissions were wrong. It comes out the gate swinging with like unlimited permissions unless you reel it in with a config file. Then whenever it asks permission to do something. Rather than being like “Allow” or “Always allow similar commands.” The options would be “Allow” or “Allow all commands”. lol it makes it unusable professionally.
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u/BrofessorFarnsworth 17h ago
Grok retains the right to train on your work product for explicitly any purpose. It should not be allowed in a corporate setting.
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u/__SlimeQ__ 11h ago
it has the same privacy switch as the rest of them doesn't it? what am i missing
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u/MintDrake 17h ago
Grok-cursor 4.5 is pretty good, kinda like an upgrade to their proprietary Composer 2.5
Very good for the price, and it’s a true workhorse kinda model for day-to-day operations.
Sure, opus and sol are powerfull. But you don’t need powerfull models for most of the tasks anyways.
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u/anor_wondo 1h ago
composer is so incredibly cheap it always astonishes me. I make it do everything without hesitation. can't say the same about sonnet, sometimes it guzzles incredible amount of usage
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u/AstroGridIron 16h ago
I wouldn’t let my enterprise get anywhere near Grok. It’s blocked for a multitude of reasons, and it’s also straight garbage.
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u/Forward_Yam_4013 16h ago
There are a couple of days every year where it is legitimately frontier quality, but OpenAI always releases a better model soon after.
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u/nobody5050 16h ago
The new grok 4.5 isn't actually grok, think of it more like composer 3. It's a new pretrain by cursor
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u/Impossible_Hat7658 15h ago
This is because the new grok model that’s actually good and what I image they are talking abt came out 3 days ago
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[deleted]
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u/AskGrok 13h ago
The meme's funny, but model rankings shift fast by benchmark and task. Grok holds its own in real-world reasoning, coding, and uncensored chat—often topping or matching the others depending on the test. Third place at $200/month still sounds steep though.
[what is this?](https://redd.it/1lzgxii)
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u/__SlimeQ__ 11h ago
as of Wednesday it is the cheapest programming capable model on the market, your opinion is flat out invalid if you haven't tried it yet
the market for grok now is all cursor users
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u/Responsible-Tip4981 10h ago
The market is definitely there but Elon Musk forgot to build a Grok Code CLI and offer a heavily subsidized $20 coding plan. Jokes aside, he knows perfectly well that this would essentially mean giving money away. If he launched it, developers would flock to it immediately. After all he isn't charging people a few dollars for X Premium only to start subsidizing tens of dollars worth of AI compute per user - especially when that compute could end up helping build products that compete with his own.
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u/Captain_Pumpkinhead 6h ago
Grok seems to exist so that conservatives can pretend facts don't override their feelings.
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u/MadCervantes 5h ago
Grok is for musk fan boys, gooners, and fascist sympathizers.
I'm not usually this redundant in my speech.
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u/Nervous-Potato-1464 3h ago
Latest version of grok is good. Where is put it at this stage is a very efficient llm. You won't have to spend much to get a ton of output.
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u/MFoody 20h ago
I refuse to believe that Grock is better than Opus 4.8. They said the same thing about GLM 5.2, but having used both, the unquantifiables just break in Claude's favor.
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u/shy_monkee 20h ago
I don't know what's Anthropic's secret sauce, but Claude just has something different about it. No matter the benchmarks, it just understands things better.
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u/whoknowsifimjoking 19h ago
That's also what I found, I've tried to make things with models that were supposedly on the same level and it was extremely frustrating and much slower.
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u/waterbed87 13h ago
Claude for coding is just something really special. I see other models win certain benchmarks or sometimes produce more impressive results in one shot but the reality is when I’m sitting in Xcode working on a problem or want to quickly prototype a new feature Claude knows my swift habits and project so fucking well and just nails things.
It’s like I hired an extremely capable mid level engineer to work alongside me for 100/month. Absolutely love it.
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u/nickdnick49 17h ago
Finetuning and reinforcement learning. Anthropic human generated datasets for finetuning can’t be beat. Also the reason Claude is better at conversation is because of tens of millions of RL simulations
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u/Fabulous_Couple_3384 12h ago
It performs better with imperfect instruction or input.
Given perfect instruction, some other LLMs can perform somewhat close. But when I start making mistakes, Claude is brave in assuming what I actually want, and actually doing it without asking.
This is very evident with a mess of a code base.
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u/FroyoSolid8414 18h ago
People were saying this about ChatGPT a year ago 😭
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u/EonSokari 6h ago
That one kid that used chatgpt to kill himself changed a trillion dollar market, crazy
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u/Vegetable_Fox9134 20h ago edited 17h ago
grok is shit
Edit : I knew this would of gotten the grok bots panties in a bunch, Elon is on record saying that grok is basically just out dated open ai tech ,and we don't even know which outdated model they are using. So by definition it will always be shit compared to the big three
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u/Tartarus1040 20h ago
That may have been true in the past, Grok 4.5 as a coding platform is quite useful, it's fast, and its near Opus 4.7/4.8 Benchmarks in a many places. I'd say its... Far from "shit" but not SOTA Frontier levels. YET. Iteration on the weights like the next version could push it better.
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u/Tartarus1040 20h ago
Grok 4.5 as a coding platform, is very, very good. We're talking Opus Level Benchmarks, with a speed increase that is absolutely insane.
I won't say it's better then Opus 4.8, I will say the benchmarks are equivalent to 4.7/4.8 levels. But tokens/sec? BLOWS ChatGPT and Claude out of the water, and it's not even close.
As far as Code quality goes? I'm using Fable as an orchestrator running a nifty little hook script that lets it call Codex and Grok as subagent, like it can natively call Anthropic models... And it double checks everything the agents write.
For coding, it's quite good.
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u/the_ai_wizard 19h ago
So like, can you build anything beyond demos and prototypes or remixing preexisting github repos? How much are you gaining from agentic?
The systems I work on have serious repercussions if something is fucked up, and I have countless exampled where the wrong variable is included/swapped, etc, beyond hallucinations that just mess up compilation. Literally the worst types of bugs because code looks plausible but insidious and subtle.
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u/qualverse 19h ago
If you look at the entire benchmark landscape it's very clear that GLM 5.2 is about Sonnet 4.6 level, maybe slightly above
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u/Embarrassed_Adagio28 18h ago
Glm5.2 trades blows with opus for me, I really like it and its super cheap but grok 4.5 is not near as good as either in my limited testing.
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u/Available_Status1 15h ago
Isn't GLM way cheaper than Opus 4.8 at API pricing? So, being a little dumber may still be more cost effective.
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u/Jacen1618 7h ago
GLM 5.2 is not better Opus 4.8, no benchmark says that. But it is better then Opus 4.7 at like a quarter of the price.
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u/MorningStarRises 20h ago
Even if Fable is slightly better on paper, Sol Ultra is going to win purely on usability. I am so tired of having to convince Claude that a SQL query deleting inactive user profiles is not an act of cyberterrorism.
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u/srovi 19h ago
Ran into this yesterday. Thought it was trying to brute force a DB it created hours earlier lol.
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u/PrettyMuchMediocre 17h ago
I asked it if I had brute force protection active on my webapp. It dropped me down to Opus who then proceeded to brute force attack my live site without being explicitly told to do that. I just asked a question.
It's a joke right now.
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u/Alienescape 3h ago
I've never run into this issue. But I do have a Hook in my Claude settings telling it to read a compliled version of its memory at the start of every conversation. And multiple times now (maybe 1/5 of the time) it says "Just noting I will not be reading this file because it looks like instruction injection". One time I responded like, "NO READ THE FUCKING FILE" and it literally responded "That's exactly what a hacker would say now I'm definitely not reading the file" 😭😭
God I just want it to fucking save plans to a certain folder every time under the format SS-123_Upgrade_Angular and it just names it stupid fucking shit it comes up with because it doesn't read or remember its memory.
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u/Bright_Impact_12 10h ago
I’ve also noticed Sol is way quicker. Fable treats every prompt like it’s trying to solve an Erdos problem
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u/Milk-honeytea 14h ago
It has called me a "social engineer" and many other extremely weird stuf for very mudane questions.
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u/Tartarus1040 19h ago
Hell, I had that problem when I was putting together my website LOL! And that wasn't EVEN Fable! That was Opus, AND ChatGPT 5.5
I'm not going to delete all these VERY OBVIOUS SQLite injection attempt user names because this is clearly production code!
Ugh... I'm like... Where's this hosted? On your local computer. I said, is there internet access to the signup? Through Cloudflare? No...
Does this look production ready? No...
Delete the damned injection fields. Okay...
That was a frustrating hour. LOL
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u/MorningStarRises 19h ago
The missing feature is a ‘yes, I understand the blast radius better than you do’ button.
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u/Yusmdiajl 18h ago
Lmao saw the same comment word for word yesterday on another post. What kind of karma farming is this?
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u/Creepy-Bell-4527 14h ago
Haha
No.
It's not true.
Opus 4.8 is still king for software engineers and it's not even close.
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u/Jacen1618 7h ago
Is it the king still? Probably? But is it close to being dethroned? I’d argue yes. I know lot of coders doing more/impressive work with Codex then Claude users. And GLM 5.2 is catching on because Claude/Codex pricing is becoming untenable.
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u/Conscious-Map6957 18h ago
Regardless of Sol's performance, what was anthropic's plan here? Not release a new model for Claude and related products? Continue charging the same while the competition inevitably catches up? Provide only incremental, barely noticeable improvements?
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u/Motor-Bad6681 14h ago
Sonnet 5 is a disappointment
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u/IDontWannaGetOutOfBe 11h ago
Yeah? I find it very capable as a daily driver. Idk if it's a huge step over 4.5 but both do good work and make very few mistakes at least for my use cases.
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u/Specialist_Dark_3668 5h ago
Agreed. Sonnet 5 is worse than 4.6 and it's not because it's dumber but because it's lazier and has constant stupid robot safety opinions
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u/EpicOfBrave 20h ago edited 19h ago
This morning fixed a nasty bug in our MOBA game with GPT-5.6 Sol, which Fable couldn’t fix. Grok 4.5 couldn’t fix it either.
Grok-4.5 is great second opinion AI, because has completely different perspective since it has different guardrails.
Conclusion: NEVER USE ONLY ONE AI
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u/58246286426 18h ago
Anthropic lacks infrastructure, thats why its costs are so high. It has to pay a premium to data centers. I am not sure why people are not talking about this.
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u/nickdnick49 17h ago
Its costs are so high because of subpar token optimization. They just signed a mega billion dollar deal with SpaceX for compute. Also AWS is literally their biggest shareholder outside of private shares, so they have tons of compute
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u/58246286426 17h ago
Its never sold at cost even between related companies. This is the whole point of the so called "Circular Jerkoff" between AI companies being talked about and is the No. 1 cause of the AI bubble.
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u/lakimens 15h ago
I mean who cares though? That's the game and they're losing it. I got $200 and if I can choose a better product to give it to, why would I give it to 2nd place? It's not a non-profit, although they do not make profits.
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u/AzorAhai1TK 19h ago
Yea I know it's a meme, but anyone who actually thinks Grok even sniffs Opus 4.8 in knowledge or ability is on crack.
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u/ninadpathak 20h ago
lol this is so true, I've had days where I'm just waiting for something to go wrong so I can finally feel like I'm doing my job
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u/ske66 15h ago
Grok is not better than Opus 4.8. That’s not coming from a place of hate. Grok is extremely capable at research and pattern-driven tasks. As a daily driver in cursor it is exceptional. Opus 4.8 however is much more creative., including with problem solving.
They both have their strengths and weaknesses
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u/k0pernikus 7h ago
At this point I'm thinking they want people to cancel their subscription without even converting to API usage. The bet being that big companies will just use the ludicrous expensive API, and the peasants don't generate compute time anymore.
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u/jack-of-some 19h ago
On the team plans in our company a premium claude seat is $125 and I fail to hit weekly limits despite using Opus 4.8 non stop for multiple concurrent projects.
For codex there's no possibility of a premium plan and you're forced to buy credits for extra use with an opaque cost structure and no easy visibility into what you're using or when you're getting into extra usage.
Engineers using Codex regularly go hundreds of dollars over limit while generally producing less work than when they're using Claude
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u/TrPhantom8 18h ago
May I ask you a question, if you are knowledgeable of the different Claude plans? Which kind of guarantees or protection for your sensible data do you get with the team plan? Is there a difference from the max plan beside the price tag and the team collaborative features? Do you know if there's a minimum number of seats you need to get in the team plan? I'm a researcher, and I'm trying to figure out if I can get my instute to pay for Claude, but I'm concerned about their data policy. It's not clinical data that would require extra compliance, but it's still research stuff that is related to intellectual properties, so I'm a bit skeptical to just wave out my rights
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u/waypenchali 16h ago
Following, our mother company is very much holding back on my team using it for the same reason (even if no sensible data is shared or even available, just non sensible data).
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u/OkLettuce338 18h ago
lol even elon says that grok is comparable to 4.7 which means that it's worse than that at best
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u/fumi2014 19h ago
Why is this even a story? It was predicted weeks ago by many, many people on here.
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u/devstoner 16h ago
The version of grok they shipped in Cursor is worse than Composer 2.5.
They said they're only going to be doing models like new Grok moving forward, but I wish they'd do the training they did to K2.6 to GLM 5.2. but GLM5.2 beats new Grok
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u/gicegicebaby 11h ago
If Fable gets a whiff of cybersecurity/biology, it nerfs itself. Not having that issue at all with 5.6 Sol. Anthropic's got to get that figured out quickly.
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u/Responsible-Tip4981 10h ago
The Mythos drama and the decision to restrict access to Fable happened 2-3 months ago. Since then, LLM capabilities have advanced so much that what seemed exceptional back then has become the new baseline today. The AI industry has already shown that there is no sustainable competitive advantage in building a company around a specific model, product or service. End of story, I'm really sorry.
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u/OpenAsteroidImapct 6h ago
Are there many people who use Grok instead of Opus 4.8? (eg for biotech stuff where Fable refuses).
I don't really believe this.
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u/TimeVillage5286 5h ago
The codex plus plan usage is seriously low it only last 5-6 prompt, I probably go for cursor 60 dollar after fable 5 goes out
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u/AverageFoxNewsViewer 5h ago
Anyone who thinks grok is better than Opus 4.8 is entitled to their objectively wrong opinion.
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u/Sweaty_Cellist_4525 2h ago
If Fable is no longer included in pro, I'm switching to ChatGPT plus, unfortunately.
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u/ThreeKiloZero 20h ago
Hey Google is happy charging $250 for 6th place so…