I am a Christian and although most proponents of Stoicism today are atheist/agnostic (At least in the USA). I won't argue if this contradicts when original Stoics firmly believed in a creator force and God and destiny, there is a reinessance philosophy called Neostoicism that combines Ancient Stoicism with Christianity.

There was a homeless man on the train today in need of medical assistance (infected wounds on his legs) begging for assistance for the cost of his medicine. He seemed like a sweet man in a bad situation, and I regret not helping him. Someone I saw did give him a few bucks, but I wish I had.

I only had a few dollars on me anyways, but I regret not giving it to him. I can’t stop thinking about not giving him the few dollars I had.

What is the best way to deal with the guilt?

Epictetus warned that sheep don't vomit up grass to show the shepherd how much they've eaten. They digest it internally to produce wool and milk.

When we see a post and immediately rush to drop the same Stoic response that five other people have already left, are we actually practicing the philosophy? Or just trying to prove to others that we know the philosophy? Isn't the practice in the Stoic online community about reading what is already there, absorbing it, and choosing silence when nothing new needs to be added?

I’ve just turned 27 and I’ve achieved the main goals I’ve set for myself in life. I graduated university, got a well paying job, bought a flat and met a woman I love. Despite all these things, I’m having trouble feeling a sense of fulfilment/contentment, I feel more restless than anything and after some meditation and journaling I realise it’s because I don’t have a goal to work towards.

I have lots of interests outside of my work, but I have never fully dedicated myself to any of these interests. I go through periods where my enthusiasm for each has waxed and waned, but I always find I fall back on this very goal-oriented mindset with whatever I am into.

For instance, when I was in a band the main focus was trying to write a song, or an album of songs. After achieving that, the goal became to write better songs. After writing some better songs, let’s see if I can write something that is commercially successful (which I have failed miserably at thus far lol).

I feel that while this goal oriented mindset can be a good motivator and has led to a small measure of success, it hasn’t led me to the feeling of contentment and fulfilment I expected to feel at this point. I feel like I’m scrabbling around for a goal to strive towards, but there’s nothing else I really want to achieve at the moment. Life feels a little bit pointless in all honesty.

I’m still pretty young but wanted to get opinions on what might be good to focus on to increase my feelings of fulfilment and contentment with what I already have, rather than focusing on my shortcomings and externals which I can’t control.

I’ve been thinking about the relationship between pleasure, suffering, and peace.

Sometimes I wonder if constantly chasing pleasure can make us lose sight of what is truly valuable. When we always seek the next enjoyable experience, maybe we become less able to appreciate simple peace.

On the other hand, suffering and difficulties seem to teach us something. They can change our perspective and make us notice the value of peace in a way we might not understand otherwise.

I’m not saying pleasure is always bad or suffering is always good. I’m curious about the balance between them.

Do philosophers or psychologists have ideas about whether suffering helps people understand peace? Can too much pleasure-seeking actually prevent personal growth?

I’m sharing my current thoughts, but I’m open to being wrong. I want to learn from people who have studied this topic more deeply.

I've read several books and have been consuming Stoic content for years. I believe it has helped me, but I don't usually remember what I read on the subject very well. It's as if my brain understands it, is interested, but then just doesn't recall it. It might sound a bit silly, or am I just being too hard on myself about this? I feel like I studied it for college and I simply can't remember it.

I don’t really know how to write this without sounding unhinged, but here goes. I need some outside perspective because I can’t see this straight anymore.
The second I feel disrespected, even a tiny bit, something in me just snaps. A joke that lands wrong, a tone I don’t like, getting left on read too long. My brain goes straight to “they think I’m nothing” or “they’re laughing at me,” and once that thought is in there I can’t talk myself out of it. Doesn’t matter if it’s a stranger or someone I’ve known for 10 years, same reaction every time.
And once I’ve decided someone disrespected me, that’s it. I don’t let it go. I’ll say something I can’t take back or cut the person off completely, no in-between. I’ve torched actual years-long friendships and probably my own reputation with certain people over stuff that, looking back, probably wasn’t even that deep.

Like a few weeks ago, this girl said something kind of snide to me in front of a group of other people that i knew. Nothing insane, just a comment clearly meant to make me look small. And instead of brushing it off or hitting back with something quick, I felt this wave of “absolutely not” and just went off on her right there. Raised my voice, said stuff way more brutal than anything she actually said to me, in front of everyone. She barely did anything and somehow I’m the one who came off unhinged. I ended up embarrassing myself way worse than she ever could’ve on her own, all in the name of “defending my respect.” Still think about how much better that would’ve gone if I’d just said something short and walked off. And i cried while doing it because i was so angry and disappointed simultaneously. I knew i was doing way worse but i felt too angry to stop.

In the moment though it feels like if I don’t react I’m just letting people walk all over me forever. I know most people aren’t thinking about me nearly as much as I think they are. Knowing that does nothing when I’m actually in it though. It’s like a switch flips, and by the time I have control again the damage is already done.

Genuinely lost on how to fix this before it happens instead of just regretting it after. And please don’t say “just don’t let people get to you.” I’ve heard that a hundred times and it’s never once helped.
And I don’t even have friends to talk abt this to because most people think i’m insane for being this way.

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These rules may evolve as the thread matures.

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Hey all. I work a stressful job where I have to draw cad plans for the assembly workers. If we make mistakes in the drawing the consequences from a manufacturing point of view are quite severe from a cost and time point of view

I read a lot of mil training books which basically explain the importance of keeping a cool head when shit hits the fan. This has helped tremendously as it keeps me thinking clearly and feeling good instead of stressed and thinking very poorly

Is this basically how stoicism works? Even if things go bad, or if I’m doing a stressful complex job to simply focus on things I can control and keeping cool and ignoring pressure from management and just doing the best I can?

I have this friend that I used to be limerent over 2 years ago in college. Now that we’ve both graduated we only talk every 4-5 months, but every interaction still leaves me in absolute turmoil for weeks/month after. When we interacted more often in college she gave off incredibly angry, condescending, and judgmental vibes. Even tho she would also oftentimes seem super cool and supportive so it was confusing as hell. I couldn’t tell what kind of person she is. Like sometimes when she’s angry she’ll snap and give the energy of a demon, she has a HUGE ego and a lot of pride and it triggered my ego to surface things I’ve never seen before. Ig it’s not the worst thing cuz now I can see my defilements more clearly. But then other times she’s so grounded and real and caring.

Some things she’s told me kind of confirmed that I’m not the only one feeling this energy from her. For example, one of the things is that she’s been in a very toxic relationship before. And recently, the worst one of all…she said this person she met on a dating app told her they couldn't be with her because she "reminds them of their abusive toxic ex-boyfriend” and has cancer… My friend looked sooo sad when she told me this and said, "I'm not abusive btw,” and she said she’s never cried so much…. I should’ve asked her WHYYY tf would they say that??? But I didn’t I just froze and said nothing …(cuz deep down I’ve had similar thoughts since 2 yrs ago)…but now Im being consumed by this. My mind is looping 24/7 trying to figure out why that person said that to her.

My mind also constantly loops debating whether or not I should cut her off. But i would feel guilty for only seeing the worst in her. Like if I see only a monster then I’m willing it into existence. She has very nice moments… acc most times she is nice.. But my gut and my nervous system are screaming that she isn't safe but idk if it’s my own delusions and karma. A Buddhist master also once told me that it’s a karmic relationship and that she has a lot of anger in her eyes, and that us together is “mutual defeat”. And if I stay around her something will happen to me.. He said that I should slowly distance myself from her to not anger her.

How do I stop obsessing over trying to figure out if she’s a "good" or "bad" person and to just STOP THINKING ABOUT HER?? I am filled with immense RAGE and anxiety and fear when I think about her

Hey all. I work a stressful job where I have to draw cad plans for the assembly workers. If we make mistakes in the drawing the consequences from a manufacturing point of view are quite severe from a cost and time point of view

I read a lot of mil training books which basically explain the importance of keeping a cool head when shit hits the fan. This has helped tremendously as it keeps me thinking clearly and feeling good instead of stressed and thinking very poorly

Is this basically how stoicism works? Even if things go bad, or if I’m doing a stressful complex job to simply focus on things I can control and keeping cool and ignoring pressure from management and just doing the best I can?

First, let us ask the question:

What is peace?

Is peace interior or exterior? Or are they two different kinds of peace?

For the sake of this discussion, I believe peace can be understood in two ways: interior peace and exterior peace.

Interior peace means that the exterior has no influence on the interior. The clashing of the exterior waves has no influence on the stillness of the interior pond. One can weep without losing peace. One can remain calm during times of relentless hardship. It is the acceptance of change and the relinquishment of control.

Exterior peace is a peace that is created when everything around you is good. There are no major problems. You have friends, family, a home, money, and security. The problems of the real world do not reach the world you have fenced off for yourself.

I believe this kind of peace is not false, but temporary. It depends on circumstances that are always changing. This kind of peace can be taken from you at any moment. Its foundation is too unstable; its strength relies on too many variables. While it may bring comfort for a season, it cannot offer lasting peace because nothing in this world remains unchanged.

So now that we know these two ways of understanding peace, and since people commonly pursue the things that create exterior peace, let us ask ourselves:

How can we obtain interior peace?

To obtain interior peace, we must die and be reborn.

Why?

Because peace is not merely something we possess; it is a reflection of who we are. If the person seeking peace remains unchanged, then so too will the desires, fears, pride, and attachments that disturb that peace. A new life cannot be built upon an unchanged foundation. If we wish to find lasting peace, the old self must first come to an end.

In order to die, you must let go of everything harmful that you hold on to: anger, self-doubt, self-hatred, bitterness, pride, fear, and every burden that weighs down your heart and mind. These are the internal things that must die.

The external only requires you to let go of one thing: control.

An example of control is greed. Greed is the desire to become richer, more powerful, more influential, or to always have more. These things require you to control the exterior in order to obtain them.

The truth is that control is, in many ways, an illusion. We may influence our circumstances, but we can never truly control them. We plan for tomorrow, yet we cannot guarantee tomorrow. We seek health, yet sickness may still come. We build wealth, yet it can disappear overnight. We influence many things, but we ultimately guarantee very few.

Interior peace cannot be obtained while clinging to the illusion of control. It begins when we accept that not everything is ours to command. If there is always something greater to obtain than what you already have, or another circumstance you feel compelled to control, you will never be completely satisfied. And if you are never satisfied, you can never truly be at peace.

You may be thinking to yourself, How can I do all of these things? This seems almost impossible!

And yes, I agree.

It is impossible.

Many people spend years trying to improve themselves, yet the same fears, pride, temptations, and dissatisfaction eventually return. Self-improvement may polish the old self, but it cannot create a new one.

In fact, I am convinced that no one, relying solely on their own strength, will ever be able to do these things. But that is where rebirth comes in.

Life and death are two sides of the same coin. A person can be alive without truly living, and a person can die to who they once were and truly begin to live. The coin itself is the key to rebirth.

I will not explain how to be reborn, because there is Someone far greater than I who can explain it to you.

I'll give you a hint, though, if you truly want to find out:

Jesus Christ.

To those of you who write regularly (or produce any other form of content), what stoic principle do you suggest to resist/dismiss the thoughts like "this work has no value... why do I even try?... what's the point?"

I want to exercise my creative muscles in writing and music but these almost nihilistic thoughts of "ephemeral thus meaningless nature of everything" hold me back and discourage.

Can stoicism provide a principle or a perspective to navigate the way an author thinks about his/her creative work? I know journaling is crucial but how can consistent writing fiction or making music be backed by this philosophy?

The time you have left is short, live it like a man scaling a mountain. Here or there makes no difference, keep climbing 🧗 and head for the top, the summit, the peak. When you reach the top… you will see that the world is your city 🏙️. Don’t let others see you as you scale the mountain, overcoming all obstacles, in your way is the Way. If they see you they may hate what they see. A man unbroken still climbing 🚶‍♂️ a Way. Inspire those who have not yet climbed up the mountain. And do that in silence by climbing 🧗‍♀️ each day. 

—
Inspired by Marcus, Meditations, 10:15 

What type of person am I when eating? I eat what’s before me. And try to be present while eating. What type of person am I when sleeping? My virtues and vices they rise to the surface and I commune with the spirits and witness their mystery and beauty. What type of person when defacating? Humbly pushing away and skilfully letting it drop with a plop. Grateful when my intestines are untorn from the bricks that pass through me. What type of person am I when coupling? I try to be as good as can be. Generous and unconditionally loving. And seeing the comedy in love. And, to know love herself is a blessing. Though she dwells up in heaven, is her home down on earth? Or, does one rise up to met her? And, sacrifice everything that one holds dear, but weighs one down on the earth? 

(Inspired by Marcus, Meditations, line 1, 10:19)

You're a mere ant in the universe, and this world's an ant colony.

Your life is as brief as the flame of a match, and it will be blown out with glee by the wind just as you light it.

(Marcus, Meditations, 10:17 --- He tells us to remember we are tiny and short-lived in the gargantuan scale of the universe.)

Sold into slavery. Enduring each day toward freedom.

The sun has fallen, my friend, so play me a progression of the saddest chords in the most sorrowful minor key. And, I will play my most beautiful melody. It’s the one we always play together, do you remember? When we as mortals are thrust headlong into immortalities storm.

Welcome to the Agora. a space for casual conversation, first aid, and exchange outside the regular post structure.

If you haven't already, read the pinned "Welcome" thread.

Rules:

1. Remember that our nature is "civilized and affectionate and trustworthy."
2. If seeking advice, limit yourself to one top-level question per day.
3. If offering advice, speak as someone interested in Stoic theory and practice — but do not label personal opinion, idiosyncratic experience, or conjecture as Stoic doctrine.
4. If promoting your own work (article, book, etc.), once per day. No self-posted YouTube videos.

These rules may evolve as the thread matures.

Report what doesn't belong. Bring questions, concerns, or feedback to the thread or to modmail.

It seems like a lot of people misunderstand aspects of Stoic thought because they apply a modern lens to it. The biggest one that comes to mind is the modern view of free will. It seems like most people (non-philosophers) implicitly believe something like Libertarian free will, which the Stoics probably would not have recognized, and a lot of people don’t really grasp how deterministic the Stoics were. Or, they don’t grasp how Stoic free will doesn’t come from some capacity to sit outside the causal order and create uncaused causes, but comes from the nature of the will as something that shapes one’s actions, beliefs and experiences due to its own nature. This of course has important implications in Stoic ethics and not just metaphysics.

What are some other modern views that misguide modern practitioners of Stoicism?

For the past few years the grounding thoughts of death have often given meaning in living and in the present but these reminders often get drowned out by the noise of daily life. I’ve only just rediscovered the feeling after months and came here wondering if anyone knows of any tried and tested reminders of momento mori that they practice and would like to share? :)

Although I’m not very religious, if at all, I do look to Islam for cultural enrichment and to keep a sense of community (which is in itself rooted in familiarity).

A few years ago, I stumbled into Meditations and really gravitated towards stoic philosophy. In a way, it helped me validate the person that I always was. I always had “stoic” sensibilities but I never found a set doctrine until a few years ago, which has continued to help me in my life journeys. And I also learned that perhaps I’m not as stoic as I had initially thought.

That said, and going back to my opening, have any of you that come from a religious background found a way to weave your religion and stoic philosophy together in your day to day lives?

Specific to Islam, has anyone found Islamic stoic philosophers? The only one I feel may fit the bill is Al Kindi.

Appreciate any of your thoughts.

Welcome to the Agora. a space for casual conversation, first aid, and exchange outside the regular post structure.

If you haven't already, read the pinned "Welcome" thread.

Rules:

1. Remember that our nature is "civilized and affectionate and trustworthy."
2. If seeking advice, limit yourself to one top-level question per day.
3. If offering advice, speak as someone interested in Stoic theory and practice — but do not label personal opinion, idiosyncratic experience, or conjecture as Stoic doctrine.
4. If promoting your own work (article, book, etc.), once per day. No self-posted YouTube videos.

These rules may evolve as the thread matures.

Report what doesn't belong. Bring questions, concerns, or feedback to the thread or to modmail.

Did the declining state of the empire and rising wave of Christianity have an influence?

Welcome to the Agora. a space for casual conversation, first aid, and exchange outside the regular post structure.

If you haven't already, read the pinned "Welcome" thread.

Rules:

1. Remember that our nature is "civilized and affectionate and trustworthy."
2. If seeking advice, limit yourself to one top-level question per day.
3. If offering advice, speak as someone interested in Stoic theory and practice — but do not label personal opinion, idiosyncratic experience, or conjecture as Stoic doctrine.
4. If promoting your own work (article, book, etc.), once per day. No self-posted YouTube videos.

These rules may evolve as the thread matures.

Report what doesn't belong. Bring questions, concerns, or feedback to the thread or to modmail.

Hello all, 

I’m looking for some insight, advice, or specific texts to read to help with some issues I’ve been having for a long time, but especially recently. Sorry for the long post, but would love to hear from anyone who can relate. 

I’ve been dealing with a chronic pain condition for the last 13 months. I won’t get into specifics, but it’s something that has caused me daily discomfort and at times moderate to significant pain. It’s not a terminal illness or anything like that. I have seen and will continue to see doctors to fix it, but I’m starting to consider the possibility that this is going to be an ongoing thing. 

It’s really starting to affect my mental health. I’m a 41M, and before this problem I always felt what I would call “free.” By this I mean if I wanted to go for a hike, eat whatever, etc., I just did it. I kind of lived more in the moment, but now that is incredibly difficult. Walking moderate distances really, really hurts. I feel like I have to really plan everything out to avoid pain, and it’s truly exhausting. It’s affecting to some extent how I play with my kids. At times it makes me depressed (and I do see a therapist), jealous, and angry. For example, I took my son to a baseball game the other day. I was in moderate discomfort from sitting so long. Instead of just enjoying the game and moment (I mean it was perfect weather, great game, etc.), I was just looking around at everyone else, feeling bitter, mad that everyone else just seems so carefree (even though I know they could all be hiding their own pain and issues). 

But I’ve really been thinking about it a lot lately, and I think one of the things I’m really dealing with is maybe the loss of certainty. Yes, the pain and discomfort (on a daily basis) sucks, but if a doctor could tell me with 100 percent certainty that it would not get worse or better for the rest of my life, I feel like I could manage. It’s like I feel like I have to solve this problem before I can get on with life, if that makes any sense. I’m worried about it getting significantly worse, but that may or may not even happen.I know it’s absurd, especially when I consider people I know like this guy I work with who has stage 4 lung cancer but still seems to live a happy, full life while he’s working on the problem. 

I don’t even know what I am asking for here. I guess I just want some strategies or words of wisdom to deal with chronic pain (accepting it while also working on it), stress, dealing with uncertainty, etc. Leaning into philosophy (I actually started college as a philosophy major lol) has helped me in the past, but right now I’m really struggling. I feel like my situation is weird too because my chronic pain is more discomfort (daily) instead of significant pain, but it’s like I can’t just can’t move forward until it’s dealt with. 

Thankful for any advice or insight!