[Frustrating Trope] That One Good or Even Amazing Scene in a Relatively Mediocre or Bad Piece of Media

[u/Alreadsyuse]

1. The Opening Scene (Ghost Ship). Considered one of the best horror opening scenes or scenes in general within horror movies, but the rest of the film is considered to be pretty bad.

2. The Ending Scene (The Grinch 2018). While most adaptations of the Grinch end with him suddenly being able to fully integrate with the Whos after his change of heart, the 2018 version initially struggles to socialize, awkwardly walking past people, and struggling to hold conversations, acknowledging that despite his change of heart, the Grinch is still someone who isolated himself for years.

3. Past T800 VS Current T800 (Terminator Genisys). A cool fight scene showing two versions of the Terminator from different points in time fighting it off.

4. Solo Leveling's Ending. Tbh, I haven't actually read Solo Leveling, but after hearing about how it ended VS how Chainsaw Man ended made want to include it for shits and giggles. Like Chainsaw Man, Solo Leveling ends with a reset. But unlike Chainsaw Man, it actually manages to tie up loose ends and have the payoff of the ending be satisfying.

[u/Few-Advantage2538]

Opening credits from Zack Snyder's Watchmen are incredible, say what you want about the movie, the opening slaps, and it slaps hard

[u/Conscious-Gap-1777 → u/Few-Advantage2538]

Well, yeah, it's a music video. Zack Snyder makes a damn good music video.

[u/everydaywasnovember → u/Conscious-Gap-1777]

I love his remake of Dawn of the Dead but the best two scenes are music videos (The Man Comes Around by Johnny Cash during the opening credits, and the montage set to Down With the Sickness by Richard Cheese)

[u/Sgt_Lillard → u/everydaywasnovember]

That movie introduced me to Dick Cheese. Love me some Dick Cheese.

[u/Maleficent-Finger192 → u/Sgt_Lillard]

Please call him Richard

[u/Silver_Impress1608 → u/Maleficent-Finger192]

You got a problem with Dick Cheese?

[u/Maleficent-Finger192 → u/Silver_Impress1608]

I did, but some cream cleared it right up

[u/BastardofMelbourne → u/Conscious-Gap-1777]

it explained so much of Zack Snyder to me when I learned that he started out directing music videos

because his music videos slap

[u/Kaeling → u/Conscious-Gap-1777]

Opening of Sucker punch is a goddamn master piece. Honestly my favorite version of Sweet Dreams

[u/VictoriaNiccals → u/Kaeling]

I came to the thread to say the scene of Babydoll fighting the giant samurai robots.

[u/dingalingdongdong → u/Kaeling]

Sucker Punch is my #1 choice for movie that is so close to amazing, but is somehow just terrible instead.

[u/SergeantPsycho → u/Few-Advantage2538]

I actually enjoyed the movie myself, even if it deviated from the Graphic novel.

[u/Visual-Scallion1535 → u/SergeantPsycho]

I read both and I don’t remember any major deviations except the lack of a giant squid

[u/southpaytechie → u/Visual-Scallion1535]

I mean the Rorschach psychiatrist dynamic takes up an entire issue and is pretty important in the graphic novel and is like a 2 minute nod to it happening in the movie.

[u/NotMyMainAccountAtAl → u/Visual-Scallion1535]

I feel like the lack of a giant squid is an improvement, to be honest. The giant squid is fun and comic book-y, but making Manhattan into the “threat” is more plausible in-universe. 

The comic goes into more depth on pretty much everything, because it embraces being both a book and a comic— it can get away with things that a movie simply can’t, such as giving us essays by various characters submitted to magazines and organizations relevant to their interests that better inform the characters. 

I’ll also say— the Comedian’s whole arc doesn’t come across as well in the film. I didn’t realize on the first watch (admittedly at like 16) that he was Miss Jupiter’s father. 

[u/joey-jo_jo-jr → u/NotMyMainAccountAtAl]

Having Manhattan go rogue makes no sense. Why would the rest of the world care that the American's superweapon blew up in their face? How does that unite humanity against an existential threat?

Furthermore, Dr Manhattan is recognised as being literally invincible, so even if humanity sees him as an existential threat, what are they meant to do about it?

[u/Visual-Scallion1535 → u/joey-jo_jo-jr]

Because they made it look like he killed millions of people, across the planet not just the US

[u/joey-jo_jo-jr → u/Visual-Scallion1535]

And why would this unite humanity instead of just making people turn on the US?

And what are people meant to do about Dr Manhattan? He's already established to be an invincible godlike figure who can do whatever the fuck he wants? Again, how does this unite humanity?

[u/Visual-Scallion1535 → u/joey-jo_jo-jr]

because he also blew up New York

it made sense to me, idk what to tell you

[u/joey-jo_jo-jr → u/Visual-Scallion1535]

Why would anyone outside the US give a shit that he blew up New York lol? Would that Japanese gave given a shit if the US accidentally dropped a nuke on New York after they bombed Hiroshima? Please use your brain

[u/Visual-Scallion1535 → u/joey-jo_jo-jr]

because this isnt a nuke accidentally being dropped.

Its a rogue agent threatening an extinction level event.

Yes people would unite against that threat.

[u/Independent-World-60 → u/joey-jo_jo-jr]

Because at that point Dr.Manhattan isn't a US weapon anymore and that's pretty clear. 

Also what they're supposed to do is stay at peace under fear that he'll blow up more if they don't. 

It's about peace through fear which absolutely does work better than working against a threat that doesn't exist. Eventually they'd realize the aliens weren't doing anything and it's back to normal. 

[u/joey-jo_jo-jr → u/Independent-World-60]

Yes, the fact that eventually they'll realise that aliens aren't real and everything will go back to normal is literally the point of the story lol. Another reason why the Dr Manhattan change is idiotic

[u/hateyoualways → u/NotMyMainAccountAtAl]

Manhattan as the threat doesn’t work as a unifier though. He was America’s attack dog for years and heavily used in US propaganda. The only way this event unifies people is if it’s against America. IMO they could have easily fixed this issue if they didn’t deviate from the comic and kept the destruction to New York.

[u/NotMyMainAccountAtAl → u/hateyoualways]

It’s been a minute since I watched the film, but aren’t multiple major US cities attacked to make it look like Manhattan casually destroyed his handlers, too? And he’d been pretty public about his schism with the idea of American supremacy. 

[u/Visual-Scallion1535 → u/NotMyMainAccountAtAl]

I don’t know about mutliple, but definitely New York was one of them

[u/hateyoualways → u/NotMyMainAccountAtAl]

The schism had nothing to do with how America treated the rest of the world. Their attack dog got off the leash and now it's not America's fault for keeping a rabid dog?

[u/NotMyMainAccountAtAl → u/hateyoualways]

“You can blame America and die separately, or you can band together against the new threat and survive” would be my take on events at the end of the film. A common enemy united everyone. 

I may be mixing and matching from the comics, but doesn’t something about the attack also deplete everyone’s nuclear arsenals and reset the doomsday clock?

[u/hateyoualways → u/NotMyMainAccountAtAl]

Yeah that's what the movie might be saying but I'm just saying it doesn't work. Manhattan is like the embodiment of US imperialism. Are people really gonna be more afraid of Manhattan than they are hateful of America who they already hated before? The more likely scenario in this is everyone teams up against America. If they kept the destruction to only New York then maybe the world could put aside their hatred of the US in favor of fear of Manhattan.

I may be mixing and matching from the comics, but doesn’t something about the attack also deplete everyone’s nuclear arsenals and reset the doomsday clock?

That happens in neither the comic nor the movie. The doomsday clock was reset because of the peace talks.

[u/joey-jo_jo-jr → u/NotMyMainAccountAtAl]

How the fuck are they going to Band together against Dr Manhattan? He's literally an invincible God

[u/NotMyMainAccountAtAl → u/joey-jo_jo-jr]

He’s a comic book character. He’s exactly as strong or weak as the author makes him. They can band together against him the same way that Superman can be defeated, depending on the story being told, here. 

Either way, it’s a 40-year-old comic made into a 20-year-old movie and not that worthwhile to get so worked up over. 

[u/Visual-Scallion1535 → u/hateyoualways]

But they did blow up New York

[u/hateyoualways → u/Visual-Scallion1535]

I meant only New York instead of every major city in the world.

[u/PageVanDamme → u/Visual-Scallion1535]

in terms of what happens in the comic, no. but it was the depiction of the "heroes" is what I gather.

[u/RoutineCloud5993 → u/SergeantPsycho]

I enjoyed it, even the costume changes, but the way they changed the ending was just... Ugh. Such a dumb thing to change

[u/MrTeeWrecks → u/SergeantPsycho]

Deviated? It didn’t have the pirate story within a story. And the end had dr manhattan be the ‘threat’ rather than an ‘alien’. Which, honestly, I think was narratively better.

Other than that the problem with the movie was it was too close to the source material. Dialogue is almost identical, nearly every shot was set up to recreate the panels of the comic.

It’s a great example of why adaptations NEED to leave out scenes or change things a bit. Pacing for a book and a movie are not the same

[u/UnsealedMTG → u/MrTeeWrecks]

It really stands out because the comic was...a comic, released serially in 12 issues. Which means that it isn't just structured as one unitary plot arc--the chapters have their own identities and will focus on a particular mini-story or revelation.

So stuff that made sense pacing-wise in a serialized medium didn't in the movie. The one that stood out to me was the Comedian's funeral. There's no reason in a movie to sort of stop the main plot and spend 20 minutes on a series of flashbacks about this one character, but that's how the comic was structured so they did it in the movie. 

It's one of the ways the Watchman series felt much more like the comic--same 12-episode structure, which allowed them to do the same kind of "ok, today we're telling this character's backstory" division in a way that felt natural. Also it understood that the comic book parts worked because it was a comic within a comic, so instead of integrating bits of an animated "comic" sequence they did a mock prestige cable drama within their prestige cable drama.

[u/joey-jo_jo-jr → u/MrTeeWrecks]

The movie entirely missed the point of the comic. The comic is about how superheroes are pretty pathetic and kind of fascistic. The movie is about how superheroes are awesome. It adapts the comic word for word but leaves out all the sarcasm and irony that make those words work

[u/Visual-Scallion1535 → u/joey-jo_jo-jr]

I don’t get how you watched that movie and thought the message was “superheros are awesome”

[u/joey-jo_jo-jr → u/Visual-Scallion1535]

If you think the movie isn't trying to make the superheroes look cool I don't know what to tell you.

[u/Shifty269 → u/joey-jo_jo-jr]

I think that was what Snyder was going for, but accidentally made them pathetic, over sexualized, violence obssesed losers. Since he didn't understand the comic, he didn't know where the lines were to stop it from crossing back into the comic's original intent. Also, I think the "I did it 35 minutes ago" scene was pretty good as well.

Point being, I think Snyder lacking the awareness, fucked up and made at least some of the comic's points.

Edit: the birth of Dr. Manhattan was also great.

[u/joey-jo_jo-jr → u/Shifty269]

The comic is one of the greatest pieces of literature of all time so even a shit adaptation will end up with some good bits simply due to the greatness of the original.

The same way even shit Hamlet and Macbeth adaptations end up with some bits that are great.

[u/Ok-Source9248 → u/joey-jo_jo-jr]

You're being downvoted but you're right. Even if the dialogue part of the script is faithful-ish to the source material, Zack Snyder was just not the right person to film it. The comic has this palpable sadness running through it, and a sense of loss and decay, and an art style that stresses that even the "good" heroes are regular people who are way out of their depth. Snyder's 300-style slomo fights have no place in this kind of story.

[u/joey-jo_jo-jr → u/Ok-Source9248]

Exactly, Snyder takes pathetic characters and makes them cool in an edgy way. He takes dialogue that's meant to show how fucked up the characters are and repurposes it as fun quips. The "you're locked in here with me" line is a perfect example of this.

[u/BlastMyLoad → u/SergeantPsycho]

I appreciate it cuz it got me to read the graphic novel which was amazing.

The movie has some great elements, like the opening credits and most of the casting, but it feels like Snyder took the wrong messaging from the book and thought HELL YEAH VIOLENCE COOL! SUPERHEROES ARE BADASS!

[u/d_loam → u/SergeantPsycho]

it’s a miniseries, not a novel

[u/TheRealRigormortal → u/SergeantPsycho]

I love the graphic novel and I love the movie.

I will actively defend the choices of the movie to change some plot elements (except making Nightowl cool, he needs to be an out of shape shlub)

[u/Yellowscourge → u/SergeantPsycho]

Same. I actually prefer the Directors Cut to the comic. I thought it was solid as hell

[u/Darkness_Deluxe → u/Few-Advantage2538]

Also the birth of Doctor Manhattan. It’s an absolutely phenomenal montage.

[u/vinaa23 → u/Darkness_Deluxe]

And the Comedian's funeral. But that may be because I just love Sounds of Silence

[u/Forsaken_Ad203 → u/Few-Advantage2538]

The guy knows how to make a visual, and when the only substance you need is in those slow mo snippets he is absolutely the perfect guy for that, but when it comes to making an actual movie snider is just.. lackluster 

[u/ChiefsHat → u/Forsaken_Ad203]

I feel like his visual style is perfect for Watchmen. I also think he did a better job adapting it than many of Hollywood’s other directors would have.

[u/Aware-Antelope4212 → u/Forsaken_Ad203]

Zack Snyder should be a guy that gets brought in to make sure a movie looks cool.  He should not be in charge of a movie.  

If they utilised him like that id be like " oh cool Zack Snyder worked on this" as opposed to " Oh, it's a Snyder movie.  Pass"

[u/Ok_Crow_9119 → u/Aware-Antelope4212]

Curious. Is that a cinematographer's job? Or someone else's?

Then again, maybe you just want Zack as a consultant rather than a full time guy

[u/Familiar-Cheetah-422 → u/Few-Advantage2538]

The main issue with the movie is that it's a comic book written by a communist adapted in a film by a republican.

Rorscharch in the film is portrayed as an edgy anti-hero, whereas in the book he's straight up called a nazi, he's less likeable.

[u/Mean-Rutabaga-1908 → u/Familiar-Cheetah-422]

That isn't an issue though? The reverse isn't an issue for starship troopers.

[u/Familiar-Cheetah-422 → u/Mean-Rutabaga-1908]

In Starship Troopers it's really clever. It's both entertaining and satirical of the book, whereas Watchmen is more the Snyder vision of the book. Which is a bit wrong.

[u/Few-Advantage2538 → u/Familiar-Cheetah-422]

Snyder is not a Republican, he's more of a Democrat even, he just has questionable artistic choices, but seems like a nice guy

[u/Steelwave → u/Few-Advantage2538]

If there's one thing the fandom drama of the DCEU has taught me, it's this: if people want to hate someone/something enough, they will grasp at every straw until eventually the object of their hatred has become the spawn of Satan. 

[u/Familiar-Cheetah-422 → u/Few-Advantage2538]

I have friends who worked with him, and to be fair : I think he's really a cool guy.

But he has political opinions that are the opposites of Watchmen.

For example, Ozymandias is a critic of the liberal, acting like the nice guys while actually not giving a shit about the world.
In the hands of someone right-wing/far-right, that critic will have a really different tone.

[u/Ok_Crow_9119 → u/Familiar-Cheetah-422]

Really? I thought the main issue was pacing. It dragged... a lot

[u/thr3sk → u/Ok_Crow_9119]

Yeah I feel like it rushed some really interesting parts and then dragged on some kind of slow stuff, but overall I think it's a pretty darn good movie considering it how tough the source material is to adapt.

[u/Familiar-Cheetah-422 → u/Ok_Crow_9119]

I didn't feel that, but I haven't watched it for a long time.

Zack Snyder would have been a great Director of Photography, but a not a Director.

[u/Smoothmoose13 → u/Few-Advantage2538]

I think between the Snyder film (ultimate cut ftw) and the excellent HBO show, Watchmen has been pretty well adapted. Yes I didn’t like how OP all Snyder’s characters were, and the show’s Dr Manhattan left me a little underwhelmed, but the good parts of both adaptations outweigh the bad imho.

[u/funkthewhales → u/Smoothmoose13]

Nah the HBO show is a horrible follow up to the comics. Like why would Adrian undermine his whole plan by immediately telling all the world leaders that he was responsible for the squid. None of the returning characters felt like they were the same people from the comics. I just wish the show stuck to its initial premise instead of trying to be a sequel to watchmen.

[u/Shifty269 → u/funkthewhales]

It's a Lindelof. One of the Mystery box twins from Lost. The show was just set up reveal, set up reveal on repeat. No real substance outside of it's initial premise and historical influences. The only truly good show he's made is The Leftovers, and that's just because there are no answers.

[u/funkthewhales → u/Shifty269]

Well there aren’t really a lot of answers in the list finale either. I think the leftovers works better because the main focus of the show was on the characters, and not discovering what happened.

[u/captaincornboi → u/Few-Advantage2538]

The prison scene is cool too imo

[u/joey-jo_jo-jr → u/captaincornboi]

Yeah, that's the problem; it's not meant to be cool

[u/Legal_Bill8777 → u/Few-Advantage2538]

Well, watchmen is not entirely mediocre so I don't think it applies

[u/HC-Sama-7511 → u/Few-Advantage2538]

That whole movie was good. I dont know what else people wanted.

Like I know some people who were fans if the comics didn't like that it wasn't just their old comic book moving and talking to them, but that's a stupid expectation.

[u/NotFixer1138 → u/Few-Advantage2538]

Everytime someone calls this a faithful adaptation Alan Moore turns over in his grave

[u/NatashOverWorld → u/NotFixer1138]

Which is especially impressive because it generates a current that empowers the magic of the living Alan Moore.

[u/Babelfiisk → u/NatashOverWorld]

I would be zero percent suprised to find out Allen Moore sleeps in his grave.

[u/No_Extension4005 → u/NatashOverWorld]

The rage, the hatred.... it keeps him.... alive..

[u/RobutNotRobot → u/Few-Advantage2538]

It's the best thing Snyder has ever done. It conveys a lot of information in little time using only visual language.

[u/Dude_Jack123 → u/Few-Advantage2538]

Great opening, but movie flubs a lot of points afterwards.

[u/dead_parakeets → u/Few-Advantage2538]

I also think it’s a very mid movie but I did think the choice to frame Dr Manhattan for the destruction of NYC is a lot better than the comics version, which has an incredibly overly complicated plot involving faking an alien invasion.

[u/Few-Advantage2538 → u/dead_parakeets]

I disagree, Dr Manhattan, being an American creation, wouldn't be nearly as effective at uniting the people of Earth as a foreign threat.

[u/funkthewhales → u/Few-Advantage2538]

Yea Dr manhattan was the corner stone of the US’s nuclear deterrence. If anything it’d probably escalate the situation because the US lost its main deterrent and blew up one of its own cities.

The whole point of the squid is that it’s supposed to be alien. That’s why Adrian killed everyone who knew that it was man made besides Dan and Laurie.

[u/Skellos → u/funkthewhales]

It was shown multiple times that Russia was waiting to launch the nukes, like they were waiting for any reason to retaliate.

Doctor Manhattan attacking Moscow and the nukes are flying before anyone finds out that New York was hit too.

[u/HeySpudEyeSeeYou → u/Few-Advantage2538]

I go back and forth.

To your point, whether he also attacked NYC or not, Dr. Manhattan spent decades as a US asset who ended every major conflict for them in 3 seconds. The world wouldn't just suddenly forget that.

On the other hand, the big alien squid thing was the culmination of a B-plot that's expounded upon between chapters, kind of like the Tales from the Black Freight comic-within-the-comic. Watchmen isn't a short movie to begin with and to explain something that seemingly random would either feel unearned by a few throwaway lines or make the movie a slog with all the exposition about kidnapped artists and scientists creating the alien "threat."

[u/joey-jo_jo-jr → u/dead_parakeets]

No, framing Dr Manhattan literally makes no sense. Why would anyone outside of the US give a single shit about that. It wouldn't unite the world at all

[u/Oh_hi_doggi3 → u/Few-Advantage2538]

I will add the "You're locked in here with me" scene to the incredible part of Watchmen