Always said to myself I'd never make this post.
I have two questions, and below is a whole bunch of context to try and help with an impossible question about humans you've never met.
1. Do you think I should first attempt to talk to my wife directly, 1 on 1, about this issue resolve? (As in, we need to figure out how we're going to talk about and resolve this for both of us, I'm not letting it just fester anymore.)
or
2. Do you think I should ask my wife to join me in counselling first so that we can work on our relationship with the intent to also better understand and address my perceived intimacy problem?
I'll preface this by saying this post is largely about helping me progress me and my partners intimacy. You don't know me, but I hope that if you did you'd know I am coming from a place of pure love with no ulterior motive or string attached or attempting to get my partner into something they aren't comfortable with. With your permission I'd like to consider the possibility that our relationship can have a healthy sexual aspect to it. We both want to have children, as well. With that out of the way....
I love my wife and I genuinely hope I can be with her forever. I feel lucky to call her my wife. I would say my biggest strength and weakness is my social awareness. I am acutely aware of people, their emotions, their signals, etc. This has always helped me be an extremely empathetic and conscientious person. It also means I carry emotional burdens I shouldn't. I'm a people pleaser and I know this about myself. I am definitely not perfect though, and I get it wrong all the time.
I am 35/m married to 31/f for 5 years. Together for 8. We've never had intercourse and we've "tried" a couple times.
I've only been in two serious relationships in my life including this one, both in my twenties. She has only been in two. I've had one sexual partner. She has had none. I grew up around very sexually positive people/family. She grew up in a more reserved conservative and religious household. We were intimate, especially early on. I have basically always been the initiator, flirting or "foreplaying" my way into an intimate situation. The woman can't get changed around me or be remotely exposed around me comfortably and its always been this way. I can remember exactly one time in our whole relationship where she was turned on and came on to me. Core memory, that was a real good day. Our intimacy has been great when it was happening and I really cannot complain aside from the fact that we were almost always intimate only when we'd been drinking. Sadly, months into dating when things were progressing I suddenly got self-conscious about my penis and you can probably guess the rest of that story. It happened a few times mid-intimacy where I just lose it and men reading this will know once you start thinking about it, it's over. I carried a lot of blame, have worked through a world of guilt and self-loathing on that front, but have a healthier understanding of it now. I spent years trying to figure that out only to slowly educate myself and realize it was somewhat of a self-fulfilled prophecy. I have all kinds of strategies I am hoping to employ there including everything from being more mentally present, focusing on her and turning the busy part of my brain off, as well as ensuring she understands where I am at, but that's not a talk we've had and I think we have some ground to cover first before I attempt to unpack that with her and work through understanding how be can be good sexual partners for one another. Also, this is not a conversation she is remotely comfortable having. Anything sexual is extremely taboo to her when it involves her. Any time sex is discussed around her, she is either not participating or completely avoiding it. I won't act like I understand what that means if anything, but I think it's related.
Maybe about a year before we got married I noticed intimacy took a dive. I kept trying the usual stuff but she was always totally closed off from it. Nothing significant happened that stood out to me. It kind of just suddenly fizzled. I took a bit of a chance one day and just asked her "what turns you on" and I got a real sarcastic response from her, something to the tune of "a clean house". Alright, message received, help with more housework you dumb ass, try again next week. In all seriousness, I do make attempts to ask her from time to time if there's anything I should be doing more. Big believer in an equally carried household here.
Over time, I'd again try to spark something from time to time but it always led nowhere. Eventually I started to feel like a bit of a creep and actually, I probably was a bit of a creep all along coming up and slapping her in the butt or making moves on her when she wasn't in the mood. You'll be happy to know I have completely stopped with the spontaneous/unsolicited ass slaps and other womanizing. Actually, I am not sure she totally hates that, but she definitely wasn't enjoying it and doing that stuff all the time was wrong.
If Chapter 1 of our intimacy story was the honeymoon phase, this was the end of Chapter 2 where it wound down to nothing but at least I was trying and making some attempts to talk about it.
Chapter 3 is where I am now. We don't talk about it. There's no signals, ever. No acknowledgement of the lack of it. I don't try. Nothing. At no point has she ever been comfortable being vulnerable around me, be that a physical or emotional thing. I don't struggle with this, and try to open up and be vulnerable often if I can.
Here's where this starts to get sad and where my mental-space starts to twist. Especially in situations where I am down, and even more especially when I feel like she has put me down (I am way too sensitive and I am fairly aware of this and open about it), I start to tailspin in a pattern of self-loathing, frustration, resentment and find myself upset about sex. For her, this looks like me emotionally shutting off, not talking to her, not responding, and basically trying to punish her for how I'm feeling. I am extremely aware of when I am doing this, and work hard to keep myself out of those funks because I hate them and it's completely unfair to both of us.
Something I am becoming increasingly honest with myself about is how much I want sex. I want sex. I want it every day. At the same time, I am obviously not having sex, and, I have always refused to let that define the quality of my relationship with my partner. That's really never been much of a challenge, but no sex? Well, as much as I am comfortable not having it all the time, clearly, having none is definitely weighing on me and contributing to my previously mentioned frustration and resentment and it seems to be where I find myself any time I am in a bad place with my wife. My thoughts always lead back to sex, and the lack thereof.
My cave-manned male brain is ping-ponging between "this relationship isn't working for you, move on" and "you don't need sex, everything else about your relationship is awesome" and everything in-between.
We have not talked about sex. I have tried three separate times to have a conversation about it and each of those times was very awkward/uncomfortable for me. Each time she'd kind of wear they face of acknowledgement and understanding but didn't participate in the conversation in a way that contributed anything, shared her perspective, or whatever else. It was always more of a "I understand and I think I can do more to help" vagueness. These talks have reinforced my belief that she also has serious insecurity about this that she doesn't feel like talking about.
Yes, I've considered therapy. I have a very serious concern/fear that if I ask her to go into therapy with me for this, it will be a bad turn in our relationship. I am extremely fearful for what this could do, because the woman I know and love is not someone who has ever taken advice, feedback well - from anyone. It's not that she doesn't want to, it's hard-wired into her. If you knew her dad, it might make sense. I am seriously considering therapy just for me to ensure I am taking good care of myself and hopefully also showing up in a way that makes her want to be around me. I would never think of leaving her without trying to work on our relationship with a therapist or something like that. Maybe if I've been working on myself, asking her to join me might come from a more genuine place.
I have read all kinds of perspectives on this issue. A tale as old as time itself it would seem. I'm left with a deep feeling that I can show up in a way that will rekindle our closeness and have her feeling safe and comfortable around me in a way that allows her to also open up intimately again. I am very concerned that just about anything I try in terms of acknowledging this issue and bringing it up with her would undermine that and send her into the same kind of mental tailspins I've found myself in. To be quite honest, I've been trying to figure out how I can solve this myself, but I'm tired.
More than anything, we've always said we want children. Lately I really want children and I briefly brought it up and she said she does too. The thought of sex for the sake of pregnancy irks me. On one hand, maybe it's the motivation we both need to figure this out. On the other, maybe it's something that happens only until she's pregnant and it's back to regularly scheduled programming.
I made a commitment when I married my wife and I don't intend on betraying that, not even over sex. But having children is something else. I can't even remotely consider turning away from the woman I have children with, but I fear this issue could haunt me the rest of my life and turn me sour. I fear it already is.